Data Center operations mail list?
Is there a mail list that’s analogous to NANOG, but focused on the data center infrastructure and operations? The shorty.com hosted list is defunct. Thanks, and apologies for the tangential topic. —Chris
Did you come across one? Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Chris Boyd<mailto:cboyd@gizmopartners.com> Sent: 8/6/2015 1:04 PM To: NANOG<mailto:nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Data Center operations mail list? Is there a mail list that’s analogous to NANOG, but focused on the data center infrastructure and operations? The shorty.com hosted list is defunct. Thanks, and apologies for the tangential topic. —Chris
I am setting one up and invited Chris to moderate it with me. I've always looked for a list that covers that topic as well. I followed the same name style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org domain. On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey <ryan@finnesey.com> wrote:
Did you come across one?
Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Chris Boyd<mailto:cboyd@gizmopartners.com> Sent: 8/6/2015 1:04 PM To: NANOG<mailto:nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Data Center operations mail list?
Is there a mail list that’s analogous to NANOG, but focused on the data center infrastructure and operations? The shorty.com hosted list is defunct.
Thanks, and apologies for the tangential topic.
—Chris
A very good idea! -mel via cell
On Aug 11, 2015, at 6:06 AM, Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
I am setting one up and invited Chris to moderate it with me. I've always looked for a list that covers that topic as well. I followed the same name style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org domain.
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey <ryan@finnesey.com> wrote:
Did you come across one?
Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Chris Boyd<mailto:cboyd@gizmopartners.com> Sent: 8/6/2015 1:04 PM To: NANOG<mailto:nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Data Center operations mail list?
Is there a mail list that’s analogous to NANOG, but focused on the data center infrastructure and operations? The shorty.com hosted list is defunct.
Thanks, and apologies for the tangential topic.
—Chris
Very nice. Please let us know when you have it up and available. Robert On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 08:01:59 -0500 Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
I am setting one up and invited Chris to moderate it with me. I've always looked for a list that covers that topic as well. I followed the same name style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org domain.
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey <ryan@finnesey.com> wrote:
Did you come across one?
Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Chris Boyd<mailto:cboyd@gizmopartners.com> Sent: 8/6/2015 1:04 PM To: NANOG<mailto:nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Data Center operations mail list?
Is there a mail list that’s analogous to NANOG, but focused on the data center infrastructure and operations? The shorty.com hosted list is defunct.
Thanks, and apologies for the tangential topic.
—Chris
Thank you for getting this going. Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Rafael Possamai<mailto:rafael@gav.ufsc.br> Sent: 8/11/2015 9:02 AM To: Ryan Finnesey<mailto:ryan@finnesey.com> Cc: Chris Boyd<mailto:cboyd@gizmopartners.com>; NANOG<mailto:nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Data Center operations mail list? I am setting one up and invited Chris to moderate it with me. I've always looked for a list that covers that topic as well. I followed the same name style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org<http://nadcog.org> domain. On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey <ryan@finnesey.com<mailto:ryan@finnesey.com>> wrote: Did you come across one? Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Chris Boyd<mailto:cboyd@gizmopartners.com<mailto:cboyd@gizmopartners.com>> Sent: 8/6/2015 1:04 PM To: NANOG<mailto:nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> Subject: Data Center operations mail list? Is there a mail list that’s analogous to NANOG, but focused on the data center infrastructure and operations? The shorty.com<http://shorty.com> hosted list is defunct. Thanks, and apologies for the tangential topic. —Chris
On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 07:59:41AM -0700, James Downs wrote:
On Aug 11, 2015, at 06:01, Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org domain.
Nad Cog?
North American Data Center Operations Group, perhaps? -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mikea@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
Exactly. I figured if it can be organized with the help of the community and provide other benefits aside from a mailing list, I wouldn't have a problem with helping. On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 10:07 AM, mikea <mikea@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 07:59:41AM -0700, James Downs wrote:
On Aug 11, 2015, at 06:01, Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org domain.
Nad Cog?
North American Data Center Operations Group, perhaps?
-- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mikea@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
dc-ops@puck.nether.net <mailto:dc-ops@puck.nether.net> has been around for at least 5 years and has, to date, 3 or 4 emails IIRC. It’s still there if you want something already built and functional. Mike
On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:15 PM, Marcin Cieslak <saper@saper.info> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015, James Downs wrote:
On Aug 11, 2015, at 06:01, Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org domain.
Nad Cog?
datacenterops.org is still available *hint*hint*
~Marcin
Hi, On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Marcin Cieslak <saper@saper.info> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015, James Downs wrote:
On Aug 11, 2015, at 06:01, Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org domain.
Nad Cog?
datacenterops.org is still available *hint*hint*
~Marcin
With the lack of interest compared to NANOG (especially seeing how the old list simply dried up) it might be best making the list global rather than North America only to get the traffic levels up a bit. Alex
hi nanog On 08/11/15 at 04:46pm, Alex Brooks wrote:
With the lack of interest compared to NANOG (especially seeing how the old list simply dried up) it might be best making the list global rather than North America only to get the traffic levels up a bit.
there used to be an active "isp-xxx.com" decades ago that was taken over by a commerical entity - the "xxx" represented various topics ( security, infrastructure, colo, control panels, etc ) those domains are all dead .. i found these new url that may or may not be what you're looking for ... i didnt check it out - https://lists.debian.org/debian-isp/ - http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp - http://www.reedmedia.net/lists/bsd-isp/ i'd like to see a NOC contact address for resolving ( DDoS ) issues coming from that ISP ... i'll help out if needed the list of friendly co-operating NOC contracts probably need to be "member only protected" to protect it from being spam'd ? pixie dust alvin # http://DDoS-Mitigator.net
On 11/Aug/15 17:46, Alex Brooks wrote:
With the lack of interest compared to NANOG (especially seeing how the old list simply dried up) it might be best making the list global rather than North America only to get the traffic levels up a bit.
Tend to agree that a list with global scope might be more useful. Mark.
I was actually surprised with how many people subscribed already. I think we are close to 100 already in less than 24 hours. I could use some help drafting some basic mailing list rules (no spam, no soliciting, etc) and if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 1:34 AM, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 11/Aug/15 17:46, Alex Brooks wrote:
With the lack of interest compared to NANOG (especially seeing how the old list simply dried up) it might be best making the list global rather than North America only to get the traffic levels up a bit.
Tend to agree that a list with global scope might be more useful.
Mark.
I missed the subscription info. Can you repost please? I can be #100 :) On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:33 AM, Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
I was actually surprised with how many people subscribed already. I think we are close to 100 already in less than 24 hours.
I could use some help drafting some basic mailing list rules (no spam, no soliciting, etc) and if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 1:34 AM, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 11/Aug/15 17:46, Alex Brooks wrote:
With the lack of interest compared to NANOG (especially seeing how the old list simply dried up) it might be best making the list global rather than North America only to get the traffic levels up a bit.
Tend to agree that a list with global scope might be more useful.
Mark.
-- :o@>
On Aug 12, 2015, at 7:53 AM, Oliver O'Boyle <oliver.oboyle@gmail.com> wrote:
I missed the subscription info. Can you repost please? I can be #100 :)
http://lists.nadcog.org Welcome aboard. —Chris
Done, thanks! On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Chris Boyd <cboyd@gizmopartners.com> wrote:
On Aug 12, 2015, at 7:53 AM, Oliver O'Boyle <oliver.oboyle@gmail.com> wrote:
I missed the subscription info. Can you repost please? I can be #100 :)
Welcome aboard.
—Chris
-- :o@>
It appears that this list is sending its outbound traffic via Amazon's cloud operation. This is a profoundly horrible idea, not through any fault of yours, but because Amazon's cloud operation is a massive, non-stop fountain of spam and Amazon personnel flatly refuse to lift a finger to do anything about it. As a result of this incompetence/negligence, some folks out there have taken defensive measures which may include firewalling, blocking, discarding, rejecting, etc. Thus this is not someplace that you want to try to send mail from if you really care about having it delivered. I recommend moving it elsewhere. And I'm perfectly willing to assist with that (either selecting another location or facilitating the move or both). ---rsk
Hi Rich, Thank you for letting me know, I expected Amazon to actually take care of spammers and not let it be a free for all. I can definitely switch it elsewhere, so please let me know what you have in mind. I can let the mailman server do deliveries as well, so that's a second option. Best regards, Rafael On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> wrote:
It appears that this list is sending its outbound traffic via Amazon's cloud operation.
This is a profoundly horrible idea, not through any fault of yours, but because Amazon's cloud operation is a massive, non-stop fountain of spam and Amazon personnel flatly refuse to lift a finger to do anything about it. As a result of this incompetence/negligence, some folks out there have taken defensive measures which may include firewalling, blocking, discarding, rejecting, etc. Thus this is not someplace that you want to try to send mail from if you really care about having it delivered.
I recommend moving it elsewhere. And I'm perfectly willing to assist with that (either selecting another location or facilitating the move or both).
---rsk
HI Guys: I must have missed this but where can I sign up for this new mailing list? Thank you. Alex On 8/20/2015 8:51 AM, Rafael Possamai wrote:
Hi Rich,
Thank you for letting me know, I expected Amazon to actually take care of spammers and not let it be a free for all. I can definitely switch it elsewhere, so please let me know what you have in mind.
I can let the mailman server do deliveries as well, so that's a second option.
Best regards, Rafael
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> wrote:
It appears that this list is sending its outbound traffic via Amazon's cloud operation.
This is a profoundly horrible idea, not through any fault of yours, but because Amazon's cloud operation is a massive, non-stop fountain of spam and Amazon personnel flatly refuse to lift a finger to do anything about it. As a result of this incompetence/negligence, some folks out there have taken defensive measures which may include firewalling, blocking, discarding, rejecting, etc. Thus this is not someplace that you want to try to send mail from if you really care about having it delivered.
I recommend moving it elsewhere. And I'm perfectly willing to assist with that (either selecting another location or facilitating the move or both).
---rsk
.
FWIW I agree. On August 20, 2015 at 11:43 rsk@gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) wrote:
It appears that this list is sending its outbound traffic via Amazon's cloud operation.
This is a profoundly horrible idea, not through any fault of yours, but because Amazon's cloud operation is a massive, non-stop fountain of spam and Amazon personnel flatly refuse to lift a finger to do anything about it. As a result of this incompetence/negligence, some folks out there have taken defensive measures which may include firewalling, blocking, discarding, rejecting, etc. Thus this is not someplace that you want to try to send mail from if you really care about having it delivered.
I recommend moving it elsewhere. And I'm perfectly willing to assist with that (either selecting another location or facilitating the move or both).
---rsk
-- -Barry Shein The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
Quick update: I moved away from Amazon SES to a private smtp server provided by Chris, who is also helping moderate the list. I left Amazon SES configured as a backup since the bounce rate after thousands of emails peaked at only 0.08% Thanks! Rafael On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> wrote:
It appears that this list is sending its outbound traffic via Amazon's cloud operation.
This is a profoundly horrible idea, not through any fault of yours, but because Amazon's cloud operation is a massive, non-stop fountain of spam and Amazon personnel flatly refuse to lift a finger to do anything about it. As a result of this incompetence/negligence, some folks out there have taken defensive measures which may include firewalling, blocking, discarding, rejecting, etc. Thus this is not someplace that you want to try to send mail from if you really care about having it delivered.
I recommend moving it elsewhere. And I'm perfectly willing to assist with that (either selecting another location or facilitating the move or both).
---rsk
On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 08:18:59PM -0500, Rafael Possamai wrote:
Quick update: I moved away from Amazon SES to a private smtp server provided by Chris, who is also helping moderate the list.
That's a good idea. I noticed.
I left Amazon SES configured as a backup since the bounce rate after thousands of emails peaked at only 0.08%
The bounce rate is not an effective metric, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that some unknown and unknowable number of sites are configured to quarantine email. (This is a horrible idea that I've railed against many times, but that notwithstanding, ignorant people do it every day.) Any site which quarantines mail will not generate a bounce (or a reject) but will silently consign incoming traffic to a location which may, or may not, be eventually seen by a human being. The bounce rate yields precisely zero insight into the extent of this problem. Nor does it yield any insight into other similar (related) problems which are not manifested via the SMTP transaction. The best course here is to completely avoid any contact with the horribly-mismanaged Amazon cloud operation until such time as those running it demonstrate a bare minimum of professionalism -- which, to date, they have unfortunately not. In this particular case, it would be preferable to defer/queue any outbound mail traffic instead of attempting to deliver via Amazon: there is unlikely to be anything traversing that mailing list which would suffer by being delayed by an hour or a day. ---rsk
I'm on a mailing list hosted at Amazon, uses their API, etc. Other than the bumps in the migration to Amazon, I haven't seen any real issues. Hundreds of people on the list posting hundreds (total, not each) of messages per day. No complaints. *shrugs* ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Kulawiec" <rsk@gsp.org> To: "Rafael Possamai" <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 8:46:00 PM Subject: Re: Data Center operations mail list? On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 08:18:59PM -0500, Rafael Possamai wrote:
Quick update: I moved away from Amazon SES to a private smtp server provided by Chris, who is also helping moderate the list.
That's a good idea. I noticed.
I left Amazon SES configured as a backup since the bounce rate after thousands of emails peaked at only 0.08%
The bounce rate is not an effective metric, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that some unknown and unknowable number of sites are configured to quarantine email. (This is a horrible idea that I've railed against many times, but that notwithstanding, ignorant people do it every day.) Any site which quarantines mail will not generate a bounce (or a reject) but will silently consign incoming traffic to a location which may, or may not, be eventually seen by a human being. The bounce rate yields precisely zero insight into the extent of this problem. Nor does it yield any insight into other similar (related) problems which are not manifested via the SMTP transaction. The best course here is to completely avoid any contact with the horribly-mismanaged Amazon cloud operation until such time as those running it demonstrate a bare minimum of professionalism -- which, to date, they have unfortunately not. In this particular case, it would be preferable to defer/queue any outbound mail traffic instead of attempting to deliver via Amazon: there is unlikely to be anything traversing that mailing list which would suffer by being delayed by an hour or a day. ---rsk
My 2 cents: I use it for other services and haven't had any issues over the past few months, but one problem I was having with SES + Mailman is that even though my account was out of their sandbox, I still had some smtp errors due to "email not verified" which is annoying. So I had to tell mailman to wrap every message, hence the via NADCOG you probably seen before. Now that option is back to default by using Chris' server. Their support sent me a canned message so I decided not to waste too much time there. As long as 99% of members get their emails I don't think it really matters whose server they are going through. Honestly, most things out there are designed to fit the 95th percentile scale, so if you are on either extreme, one is better off figuring out how to adapt than to require the whole system to change, that is, if your email server is blocking more messages than it should, fix your email server, don't try to fix the whole world wide web. On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I'm on a mailing list hosted at Amazon, uses their API, etc. Other than the bumps in the migration to Amazon, I haven't seen any real issues. Hundreds of people on the list posting hundreds (total, not each) of messages per day. No complaints. *shrugs*
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Kulawiec" <rsk@gsp.org> To: "Rafael Possamai" <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 8:46:00 PM Subject: Re: Data Center operations mail list?
On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 08:18:59PM -0500, Rafael Possamai wrote:
Quick update: I moved away from Amazon SES to a private smtp server provided by Chris, who is also helping moderate the list.
That's a good idea. I noticed.
I left Amazon SES configured as a backup since the bounce rate after thousands of emails peaked at only 0.08%
The bounce rate is not an effective metric, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that some unknown and unknowable number of sites are configured to quarantine email. (This is a horrible idea that I've railed against many times, but that notwithstanding, ignorant people do it every day.) Any site which quarantines mail will not generate a bounce (or a reject) but will silently consign incoming traffic to a location which may, or may not, be eventually seen by a human being.
The bounce rate yields precisely zero insight into the extent of this problem. Nor does it yield any insight into other similar (related) problems which are not manifested via the SMTP transaction.
The best course here is to completely avoid any contact with the horribly-mismanaged Amazon cloud operation until such time as those running it demonstrate a bare minimum of professionalism -- which, to date, they have unfortunately not. In this particular case, it would be preferable to defer/queue any outbound mail traffic instead of attempting to deliver via Amazon: there is unlikely to be anything traversing that mailing list which would suffer by being delayed by an hour or a day.
---rsk
AFMUG got that straightened out. I don't know the details of how. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rafael Possamai" <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:03:42 PM Subject: Re: Data Center operations mail list? My 2 cents: I use it for other services and haven't had any issues over the past few months, but one problem I was having with SES + Mailman is that even though my account was out of their sandbox, I still had some smtp errors due to "email not verified" which is annoying. So I had to tell mailman to wrap every message, hence the via NADCOG you probably seen before. Now that option is back to default by using Chris' server. Their support sent me a canned message so I decided not to waste too much time there. As long as 99% of members get their emails I don't think it really matters whose server they are going through. Honestly, most things out there are designed to fit the 95th percentile scale, so if you are on either extreme, one is better off figuring out how to adapt than to require the whole system to change, that is, if your email server is blocking more messages than it should, fix your email server, don't try to fix the whole world wide web. On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Mike Hammett < nanog@ics-il.net > wrote: I'm on a mailing list hosted at Amazon, uses their API, etc. Other than the bumps in the migration to Amazon, I haven't seen any real issues. Hundreds of people on the list posting hundreds (total, not each) of messages per day. No complaints. *shrugs* ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Kulawiec" < rsk@gsp.org > To: "Rafael Possamai" < rafael@gav.ufsc.br > Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 8:46:00 PM Subject: Re: Data Center operations mail list? On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 08:18:59PM -0500, Rafael Possamai wrote:
Quick update: I moved away from Amazon SES to a private smtp server provided by Chris, who is also helping moderate the list.
That's a good idea. I noticed.
I left Amazon SES configured as a backup since the bounce rate after thousands of emails peaked at only 0.08%
The bounce rate is not an effective metric, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that some unknown and unknowable number of sites are configured to quarantine email. (This is a horrible idea that I've railed against many times, but that notwithstanding, ignorant people do it every day.) Any site which quarantines mail will not generate a bounce (or a reject) but will silently consign incoming traffic to a location which may, or may not, be eventually seen by a human being. The bounce rate yields precisely zero insight into the extent of this problem. Nor does it yield any insight into other similar (related) problems which are not manifested via the SMTP transaction. The best course here is to completely avoid any contact with the horribly-mismanaged Amazon cloud operation until such time as those running it demonstrate a bare minimum of professionalism -- which, to date, they have unfortunately not. In this particular case, it would be preferable to defer/queue any outbound mail traffic instead of attempting to deliver via Amazon: there is unlikely to be anything traversing that mailing list which would suffer by being delayed by an hour or a day. ---rsk
The best course here is to completely avoid any contact with the horribly-mismanaged Amazon cloud operation until such time as those running it demonstrate a bare minimum of professionalism -- which,
Seconded. At dnswl.org <http://dnswl.org/>, most of Amazon IP space has a pretty bad reputation (for outbound SMTP traffic). Abuse desk is unresponsive and IPs mostly lack proper rDNS which would allow to identify responsible party. Amazon may be a good choice for some people for some use cases, but outbound SMTP is not such a use case. — Matthias
Interesting... I just went to the web site to subscribe and I received an email that I was already subscribed. I don't remember doing that... So how did this happen?? Robert On Wed, 12 Aug 2015 07:33:05 -0500 Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
I was actually surprised with how many people subscribed already. I think we are close to 100 already in less than 24 hours.
I could use some help drafting some basic mailing list rules (no spam, no soliciting, etc) and if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 1:34 AM, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
With the lack of interest compared to NANOG (especially seeing how
On 11/Aug/15 17:46, Alex Brooks wrote: the
old list simply dried up) it might be best making the list global rather than North America only to get the traffic levels up a bit.
Tend to agree that a list with global scope might be more useful.
Mark.
Robert, the first few people who expressed interested were subscribed manually. Everyone else has been using the list website to subscribe! There should have been a message sent out with the subscription email explaining it :) On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:28 AM, Robert Webb <rwebb@ropeguru.com> wrote:
Interesting... I just went to the web site to subscribe and I received an email that I was already subscribed.
I don't remember doing that... So how did this happen??
Robert
On Wed, 12 Aug 2015 07:33:05 -0500 Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
I was actually surprised with how many people subscribed already. I think we are close to 100 already in less than 24 hours.
I could use some help drafting some basic mailing list rules (no spam, no soliciting, etc) and if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 1:34 AM, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 11/Aug/15 17:46, Alex Brooks wrote:
With the lack of interest compared to NANOG (especially seeing how the old list simply dried up) it might be best making the list global rather than North America only to get the traffic levels up a bit.
Tend to agree that a list with global scope might be more useful.
Mark.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 De-lurking Hi Rafael and everyone else :}( sorry the cross-post ) You should really have captcha's configured for your mailman lists Some shady actors out there are using mailman lists to target certain email addresses. Its a pretty dumb attack, but its annoying :} The target will be hit by hundreds ( if not thousands ) of subscribe confirmation requests. We changed to captcha's a month or more ago, we still get an average of 300 od IP's trying to do this in period of a few hours. Keep an eye out in your logfiles for some of the strings below ( they all seem to try to use the same password ), if you have any issues with getting captcha's to work properly, drop me an email :} Below is an sanitised ( list name and target) entry from the Apache logs ( the IP is real, screw em :} ) 64.234.104.150 - - [13/Aug/2015:08:15:54 +0800] "GET /mailman/subscribe/<<Sanitised list name >>?email=<< Sanitised_TARGET
@YAHOO.COM&fullname=&pw=123456789&pw-conf=123456789&language=en&diges t=0&email-button=Subscribe HTTP/1.1"
301 801 "http://tools.vietche.biz/Boom/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:39.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/39.0"
Regards Phill Twiss On 13/08/2015 4:19 AM, Rafael Possamai wrote:
Robert, the first few people who expressed interested were subscribed manually. Everyone else has been using the list website to subscribe! There should have been a message sent out with the subscription email explaining it :)
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:28 AM, Robert Webb <rwebb@ropeguru.com> wrote:
Interesting... I just went to the web site to subscribe and I received an email that I was already subscribed.
I don't remember doing that... So how did this happen??
Robert
On Wed, 12 Aug 2015 07:33:05 -0500 Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
I was actually surprised with how many people subscribed already. I think we are close to 100 already in less than 24 hours.
I could use some help drafting some basic mailing list rules (no spam, no soliciting, etc) and if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 1:34 AM, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 11/Aug/15 17:46, Alex Brooks wrote:
With the lack of interest compared to NANOG (especially seeing how the old list simply dried up) it might be best making the list global rather than North America only to get the traffic levels up a bit.
Tend to agree that a list with global scope might be more useful.
Mark.
- -- Phill Twiss | IT Manager | Consultant Software Engineer Data Analysis Australia Pty Ltd | STRATEGIC INFORMATION CONSULTANTS 97 Broadway, Nedlands, Western Australia, 6009 | PO Box 3258, Broadway Nedlands, WA, 6009 T: +61 8 9468 2523 (Direct) | +61 8 9468 2533 or +61 8 9386 3304 (Reception) F: +61 8 9386 3202 | E: phill@daa.com.au <mailto:phill@daa.com.au> | I: http://www.daa.com.au <http://www.daa.com.au/> This e-mail message and its attachments are privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message and notify the sender. While every care is taken, it is recommended that you scan any attachments for viruses. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVy+aHAAoJEGwAYdQtPZ9OLAwP/0/9A1zyYpFNDzIr4uHbPfcW C0qJK+65xuKdoQ6nGV0bm7g8Ve82+YQta90LNggm6ncl9hKH5G6fShF+e09h54FJ o+iDBAgOyhk1HjsGw7/fVMpVm9CILgjSV1tgA/HM66YGIOglslv8B10UBT9CJELD JZ0Bzo3OPkTOUA/+casK3ydUn1Dpuaol4/i5iR/G7Td+F0oY3qyiXDUXVjMaN4MX XzTRi6Luf+tS/agwnPYpX96vZ17xRn5/OVHwUSjTsnPQTUTuyTKm+S9rvuUBIawQ qAv9sdyAVEH6IbdpQfv7hzmlm8Qj29VlyfT9Em6WEpBcDCph5GcFewEXLu4gajUI dlj1n20W7NDb/bPnFUkgH0Nx6ZYV6mn9HzE29L2vnQWYN/EMdc3q5s7P1JYOe0u2 7e9xB6W0ZINPEVh4XS6HYtolYdXxD2oGRKi1suAXwUtO8gtBxonvGE5T7KbtM2WG XSzR61dMZdBcBXGMSQvdU3nPgddbiV39tSwq7XhnPbu+JH0HjVYXM+CsP9hvT2zl dKKDa7CTmjHH6yr1jlMDUP92i9OOMXVSW4l8pVFBKBJRduqGZiSArSMYpY1ADjID iIO7qw2bCdClNiWaQ1JrdaZnKZQZ8nk2G679GY7XNUm9dxz8WBvErmWMzWp/xxwQ a/7piwQb0C5+7jblAB23 =anjV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:36 PM, Phill Twiss <phill@daa.com.au> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
De-lurking
Hi Rafael and everyone else :}( sorry the cross-post )
You should really have captcha's configured for your mailman lists
Some shady actors out there are using mailman lists to target certain email addresses. Its a pretty dumb attack, but its annoying :}
The target will be hit by hundreds ( if not thousands ) of subscribe confirmation requests.
We changed to captcha's a month or more ago, we still get an average of 300 od IP's trying to do this in period of a few hours.
Keep an eye out in your logfiles for some of the strings below ( they all seem to try to use the same password ), if you have any issues with getting captcha's to work properly, drop me an email :}
Below is an sanitised ( list name and target) entry from the Apache logs ( the IP is real, screw em :} )
64.234.104.150 - - [13/Aug/2015:08:15:54 +0800] "GET /mailman/subscribe/<<Sanitised list name >>?email=<< Sanitised_TARGET
@YAHOO.COM&fullname=&pw=123456789&pw-conf=123456789&language=en&diges t=0&email-button=Subscribe HTTP/1.1"
301 801 "http://tools.vietche.biz/Boom/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:39.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/39.0"
That's a very old (in Internet Years) Mailman problem that was solved with session cookies in v2.1.16 (16-Oct-2013). If you're still paranoid, and don't want to piss your users off with privacy leaking captcha, then just set up some referer checking in your apache or nginx configs: Apache: # Prevent subscription request spam SetEnvIf Referer lists\.example\.com localreferer <Location /mailman/subscribe> Order deny,allow Deny from all Allow from env=localreferer </Location> Nginx: location /mailman/subscribe { valid_referers server_names; if ($invalid_referer) { return 403; } } -Jim P.
Thanks! That works for Apache2.2. For those interested that are using Apache2.4, make this change: -Order deny,allow -Deny from all +Require all denied The rest should be the same. Here is some more info: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/upgrading.html Best, Rafael On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Jim Popovitch <jimpop@gmail.com> wrote:
That's a very old (in Internet Years) Mailman problem that was solved with session cookies in v2.1.16 (16-Oct-2013). If you're still paranoid, and don't want to piss your users off with privacy leaking captcha, then just set up some referer checking in your apache or nginx configs:
Apache:
# Prevent subscription request spam SetEnvIf Referer lists\.example\.com localreferer <Location /mailman/subscribe> Order deny,allow Deny from all Allow from env=localreferer </Location> -Jim P.
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 08:36:24AM +0800, Phill Twiss wrote:
You should really have captcha's configured for your mailman lists
No. In fact: hell no. Captchas have zero security value and serve only to annoy and waste the time of legitimate users. Far less intrusive and more effective measures suffice nicely, e.g., deploying the DROP list in the firewall defending the Mailman instance. ---rsk
What is the mailman URL? On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Marcin Cieslak <saper@saper.info> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015, James Downs wrote:
On Aug 11, 2015, at 06:01, Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org domain.
Nad Cog?
datacenterops.org is still available *hint*hint*
~Marcin
Nothing is currently running on that domain. It is just available if you make the right offer to purchase it. Robert On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:49:33 -0500 Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br> wrote:
What is the mailman URL?
On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Marcin Cieslak <saper@saper.info> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015, James Downs wrote:
On Aug 11, 2015, at 06:01, Rafael Possamai <rafael@gav.ufsc.br>
wrote:
style as nanog and registered the nadcog.org domain.
Nad Cog?
datacenterops.org is still available *hint*hint*
~Marcin
Marcin Cieslak wrote:
O
datacenterops.org is still available *hint*hint*
~Marcin
Doesn't look likes it's available any more. In terms of building a critical mass, there do seem to be a goodly number of data center types on: various forums at webhostingtalk.com (probably) some of the support lists for various cloud stacks the LISA and USENIX communities have some lists of sysadmin types Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
There is a DC-ops list hosted at puck I setup for people awhile ago. Feel free to use that. Jared Mauch
On Aug 6, 2015, at 1:01 PM, Chris Boyd <cboyd@gizmopartners.com> wrote:
Is there a mail list that’s analogous to NANOG, but focused on the data center infrastructure and operations? The shorty.com hosted list is defunct.
Thanks, and apologies for the tangential topic.
—Chris
Absolutely feel free to use it; I haven't seen a single message on it in... well, it was 3 years ago I was in datacenters regularly, so I'm goin with "3 years". :-) Cheers, -- jra ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jared Mauch" <jared@puck.nether.net> To: "Chris Boyd" <cboyd@gizmopartners.com> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 11:46:45 AM Subject: Re: Data Center operations mail list? There is a DC-ops list hosted at puck I setup for people awhile ago. Feel free to use that.
Jared Mauch
On Aug 6, 2015, at 1:01 PM, Chris Boyd <cboyd@gizmopartners.com> wrote:
Is there a mail list that’s analogous to NANOG, but focused on the data center infrastructure and operations? The shorty.com hosted list is defunct.
Thanks, and apologies for the tangential topic.
—Chris
-- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 01:35:28pm -0400, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Absolutely feel free to use it; I haven't seen a single message on it in... well, it was 3 years ago I was in datacenters regularly, so I'm goin with "3 years". :-)
There's a message there now... :) Rather than fragmenting further, I'd suggest building up demand first on existing infrastructure. If it gets to the size of NANOG and needing a support organisation around it, then it can split off then... Simon
On 8/11/2015 3:27 PM, Simon Lockhart wrote:
On Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 01:35:28pm -0400, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Absolutely feel free to use it; I haven't seen a single message on it in... well, it was 3 years ago I was in datacenters regularly, so I'm goin with "3 years". :-)
There's a message there now... :)
Rather than fragmenting further, I'd suggest building up demand first on existing infrastructure. If it gets to the size of NANOG and needing a support organisation around it, then it can split off then...
Simon
At some point (hopefully sooner than later) the OP should just move forward in some manner with the concept. If I've learned anything about mailing lists in the past 35+ years, things will be discussed and discussed and discussed and... Parkinson's Law of Triviality comes to mind... http://www.greatleadershipbydan.com/2012/12/parkinsons-law-of-triviality.htm...
The list just went live at "lists.nadcog.org". I am open to any suggestions, just let me know. When you say move forward with the concept, do you mean get the organization started as well, not just the mailing list? Thanks, Rafael On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 7:10 PM, Mike <the.lists@mgm51.com> wrote:
On 8/11/2015 3:27 PM, Simon Lockhart wrote:
On Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 01:35:28pm -0400, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Absolutely feel free to use it; I haven't seen a single message on it in... well, it was 3 years ago I was in datacenters regularly, so I'm goin with "3 years". :-)
There's a message there now... :)
Rather than fragmenting further, I'd suggest building up demand first on existing infrastructure. If it gets to the size of NANOG and needing a support organisation around it, then it can split off then...
Simon
At some point (hopefully sooner than later) the OP should just move forward in some manner with the concept.
If I've learned anything about mailing lists in the past 35+ years, things will be discussed and discussed and discussed and...
Parkinson's Law of Triviality comes to mind...
http://www.greatleadershipbydan.com/2012/12/parkinsons-law-of-triviality.htm...
Rather than fragmenting further, I'd suggest building up demand first on existing infrastructure. If it gets to the size of NANOG and needing a support organisation around it, then it can split off then...
no! we need committees, and different colored badges, and web sites, and deadlines, and lots of stuff the insecure can put on their resumes. randy
Haha, are you saying some people out there put nanog on their resume? I thought 2008 was long gone. On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
Rather than fragmenting further, I'd suggest building up demand first on existing infrastructure. If it gets to the size of NANOG and needing a support organisation around it, then it can split off then...
no! we need committees, and different colored badges, and web sites, and deadlines, and lots of stuff the insecure can put on their resumes.
randy
On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Simon Lockhart <simon@slimey.org> wrote:
On Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 01:35:28pm -0400, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Absolutely feel free to use it; I haven't seen a single message on it in... well, it was 3 years ago I was in datacenters regularly, so I'm goin with "3 years". :-)
There's a message there now... :)
Rather than fragmenting further, I'd suggest building up demand first on existing infrastructure. If it gets to the size of NANOG and needing a support organisation around it, then it can split off then...
A few of us have been operating and supporting a data center track at the last 4 or 5 NANOG meetings. The sessions are well attended and the topics are getting more interesting e.g. real estate, energy management and interconnection focused. There is reasonable demand for a forum. It might need a little marketing to get a list with traction going. Best, -M<
While I am recent incorporation, have you ever thought about organizing a few meetups? I am not from America, but there has been a boom recently, on a few cities around the world striving to make a global linked community network of techlabs. Probably, it isn't suited for this community mailing-list, that is pretty specialized, but just saying. I have been lately interested in these forms of communication, knowledge and experience sharing. My tips. On dom, ago 16, 2015 at 9:22 , Chris Boyd <cboyd@gizmopartners.com> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan@gmail.com> wrote:
There is reasonable demand for a forum. It might need a little marketing to get a list with traction going.
There seems to be some traction, with 268 members on the NADCOG list so far.
—Chris
I actually suggested this to Chris while discussing what to have in the website, I definitely think it would be nice to have a platform to help plan and schedule local events for social and networking purposes. I am working with a few people on designing a website, so I am guessing some time in September we will have this in place. On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Idafe Houghton <idafe.houghton@gmail.com> wrote:
While I am recent incorporation, have you ever thought about organizing a few meetups? I am not from America, but there has been a boom recently, on a few cities around the world striving to make a global linked community network of techlabs.
Probably, it isn't suited for this community mailing-list, that is pretty specialized, but just saying. I have been lately interested in these forms of communication, knowledge and experience sharing.
My tips.
On dom, ago 16, 2015 at 9:22 , Chris Boyd <cboyd@gizmopartners.com> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan@gmail.com>
wrote:
There is reasonable demand for a forum. It might need a little marketing to get a list with traction going.
There seems to be some traction, with 268 members on the NADCOG list so far.
—Chris
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Chris Boyd <cboyd@gizmopartners.com> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan@gmail.com> wrote:
There is reasonable demand for a forum. It might need a little marketing to get a list with traction going.
There seems to be some traction, with 268 members on the NADCOG list so far.
Great! It's a little more complicated than list member count. Consider a social media presence as well? While the Facebook isn't designed as mailing list or collaboration media, it sort of works communication wise. If there were some service like /. for mailing lists (that I knew about) I would really like the community thumbs up/thumbs down approach so you can sift through quality vs. quantity. The quality issue has been discussed for literally years. Good luck and I just joined. Looking forward to it! Best, -M<
hi ya martin On 08/16/15 at 07:57pm, Martin Hannigan wrote:
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Chris Boyd <cboyd@gizmopartners.com> wrote:
There seems to be some traction, with 268 members on the NADCOG list so far.
good
Great! It's a little more complicated than list member count. Consider a social media presence as well? While the Facebook isn't designed as mailing list or collaboration media, it sort of works communication wise. If there
what kind of "social media presence" is what keep bouncing off my empty head i can't stand fb/twitter/other-selfie-stuff/utube/etc ( aka too many fake emails from people i dont know pretending to know me )
were some service like /. for mailing lists (that I knew about) I would really like the community thumbs up/thumbs down approach so you can sift
/. seems to have tied itself with fb ... you'd need a major following before /. accepts and publish your submissions any comments on the "meetup.com" style ??? ( ?? too big ?? too broad ?? ) one can always create the media/methodology that one wants ??
through quality vs. quantity. The quality issue has been discussed for literally years.
quality/quantify for "dc" content seems okay to start things rolling magic pixie dust alvin # # Sushi-Critics.net ... social stuff... if you're visiting in silicon valley # Food-Critics.net .... social stuff... sillicon beach, reno/lasvegas lemme know # # ITX-Blades.net ... 10 mini-itx blades in 4U chassis ... # DDoS-Mitigator.net .. #
participants (28)
-
Alex Brooks -
Alex Lesser -
alvin nanog -
Barry Shein -
Chris Boyd -
Idafe Houghton -
James Downs -
Jared Mauch -
Jay Ashworth -
Jim Popovitch -
Marcin Cieslak -
Mark Tinka -
Martin Hannigan -
Matthias Leisi -
Mel Beckman -
Michael Smith -
Mike -
Mike Hammett -
mikea -
Miles Fidelman -
Oliver O'Boyle -
Phill Twiss -
Rafael Possamai -
Randy Bush -
Rich Kulawiec -
Robert Webb -
Ryan Finnesey -
Simon Lockhart