Given how much traffic these days is CDN and streaming, is that number really supportable? http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/down-goes-google-down-goes-internet Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Jan 24, 2014, at 12:08 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Given how much traffic these days is CDN and streaming, is that number really supportable?
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/down-goes-google-down-goes-internet
http://www.seattleix.net/agg.htm http://www.torix.ca/stats.php Obviously not definitive, but I don't see a massive drop in traffic during the outage, at least on the two public exchanges listed above. It would be interesting to see if there was a concurrent increase in traffic to other sites (Facebook, Yahoo, etc.) while people couldn't check their email. Mike
On 01/24/2014 09:08 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Given how much traffic these days is CDN and streaming, is that number really supportable?
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/down-goes-google-down-goes-internet
In the interview they are saying that if Google is down, lots of people don't have DNS anymore. So that accounts for an even larger drop than just "no Youtube". Hmm - why would people use those resolvers, besides being lazy in configuring a proper resolver-address. Of course if Google is down we have no Google search (well, might be a problem in some cases), no Gmail etc. (fine with me) and no Youtube (hmm, but we'll survive without it). Come on ... If the average user is *so* dependent on Google, we have an even larger problem. Maybe like IPv6-day etc. lets try a "Google outage day" once a year as a training :-) Regards, Stefan
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Stefan Neufeind <nanog@stefan-neufeind.de> wrote:
In the interview they are saying that if Google is down, lots of people don't have DNS anymore. So that accounts for an even larger drop than just "no Youtube". Hmm - why would people use those resolvers, besides being lazy in configuring a proper resolver-address.
it's a bit perjorative to say 'lazy' isn't it? what if your ISP does monkey business with nxdomain or other requests? would you like it better if people used opendns? or 4.2.2.2? (a non-sla service from a fourth party...) I'm a fan of my own resolver, but not everyone has a dns resolver in they back pocket, right?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Neufeind" <nanog@stefan-neufeind.de>
On 01/24/2014 09:08 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Given how much traffic these days is CDN and streaming, is that number really supportable?
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/down-goes-google-down-goes-internet
In the interview they are saying that if Google is down, lots of people don't have DNS anymore. So that accounts for an even larger drop than just "no Youtube". Hmm - why would people use those resolvers, besides being lazy in configuring a proper resolver-address.
The amount of fun I had before I discovered "ipconfig /flushdns" suggests to me that that's not really a supportable argument.
Of course if Google is down we have no Google search (well, might be a problem in some cases), no Gmail etc. (fine with me) and no Youtube (hmm, but we'll survive without it). Come on ...
If the average user is *so* dependent on Google, we have an even larger problem. Maybe like IPv6-day etc. lets try a "Google outage day" once a year as a training :-)
We just did; weren't you paying attention? :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 21:22:58 +0100, Stefan Neufeind said:
just "no Youtube". Hmm - why would people use those resolvers, besides being lazy in configuring a proper resolver-address.
A lot of people make value judgements on the relative likelyhood of finding evil in DNS packets coming from 8.8.8.8 versus DNS packets coming from the IP address handed to you in the DHCP reply....
On 01/24/2014 09:46 PM, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 21:22:58 +0100, Stefan Neufeind said:
just "no Youtube". Hmm - why would people use those resolvers, besides being lazy in configuring a proper resolver-address.
A lot of people make value judgements on the relative likelyhood of finding evil in DNS packets coming from 8.8.8.8 versus DNS packets coming from the IP address handed to you in the DHCP reply....
If it's just "some" DNS your provider hands out, I agree it's not much better as well. (But you might possibly assume your provider has less interst to spy on all your emails, your dns-queries and the like.) What imho you'll want is a reliable resolver which is as close to you as possible (and have it do DNSSEC-validation etc.). Regards, Stefan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Neufeind" <nanog@stefan-neufeind.de>
If it's just "some" DNS your provider hands out, I agree it's not much better as well. (But you might possibly assume your provider has less interst to spy on all your emails, your dns-queries and the like.)
You might assume that, I wouldn't. If your access provider is a commercial eyeball network like, say, Road Runner or Comcast, then there is, I believe, evidence that they do DPI and possibly even ad injection, in addition to playing NXDOMAIN games.
What imho you'll want is a reliable resolver which is as close to you as possible (and have it do DNSSEC-validation etc.).
Sure; everyone should have their recursing resolver at the edge of their network. But most consumers don't. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Stefan Neufeind <nanog@stefan-neufeind.de> wrote:
interst to spy on all your emails, your dns-queries and the like.)
FUD much? have you read the public-dns ToS and privacy statements? if you haven't you might want to: <https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy>
What imho you'll want is a reliable resolver which is as close to you as possible (and have it do DNSSEC-validation etc.).
you might also want to read: <http://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.com/2013/03/google-public-dns-now-supports-dnssec.html> and for some (quite a few) users of 8.8.8.8 it's faster and closer than their ISP dns... which says something about the ISP provided DNS server(s) I suppose :( It's certainly not the answer for everyone, or everything, but shrugging it off for FUD reasons is just silly and makes little sense. -chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Ashworth" <jra@baylink.com>
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/down-goes-google-down-goes-internet
It's just been pointed out to me that, even though Marketplace just posted the link to that piece, the dateline is from August. My apologies for not noticing. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On 1/24/2014 12:31 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Ashworth"<jra@baylink.com>
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/down-goes-google-down-goes-internet
It's just been pointed out to me that, even though Marketplace just posted the link to that piece, the dateline is from August. My apologies for not noticing.
You sure? I think that there is an actual outage, unrelated to the article you'd posted. http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/gmail-glitch-is-causing-thousands-of-emails... Of course, I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. -- "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." "How To Build A Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later" Philip K. Dick (1928–1982)
On 14-01-24 03:40 PM, Shrdlu wrote:
On 1/24/2014 12:31 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Ashworth"<jra@baylink.com>
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/down-goes-google-down-goes-internet
It's just been pointed out to me that, even though Marketplace just posted the link to that piece, the dateline is from August. My apologies for not noticing.
You sure? I think that there is an actual outage, unrelated to the article you'd posted.
http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/gmail-glitch-is-causing-thousands-of-emails...
Of course, I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.
Actual source http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=status -Gabe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shrdlu" <shrdlu@deaddrop.org>
You sure? I think that there is an actual outage, unrelated to the article you'd posted.
http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/gmail-glitch-is-causing-thousands-of-emails...
There was an outage today, and that was why Marketplace linked their piece on Facebook, which is where I saw, it, but the piece was not about today's outage. I was mislead, because there were 2 or 3 other pieces in the tech press already in other places that *were* about today's outage. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
There was a lot of discussion about this figure back in August when the relevant outage occurred.
From memory, a large percentage of the traffic drop was from other sites breaking as a result of Google not being available. ie, a site completely unrelated to Google, potentially being served by a CDN, that was using Google Analytics on every page could fail to load and/or load/render slower as a result of the specific outage that Google had at the time. This resulted in a traffic drop for far more traffic than just that sourced from Google.
A non-trivial percentage of the Internet is in some way or other dependent on things like Google Analytics/maps/etc, Facebook likes, Twitter recent tweets, etc, such that if any of those services are not available the site fails to load, either correctly or sometimes at all. The same is true in many causes for javascript/etc libraries being loaded from 3rd party sites like Google. Scott On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Given how much traffic these days is CDN and streaming, is that number really supportable?
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/down-goes-google-down-goes-internet
Cheers, -- jra
-- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Howard" <scott@doc.net.au>
A non-trivial percentage of the Internet is in some way or other dependent on things like Google Analytics/maps/etc, Facebook likes, Twitter recent tweets, etc, such that if any of those services are not available the site fails to load, either correctly or sometimes at all. The same is true in many causes for javascript/etc libraries being loaded from 3rd party sites like Google.
I wonder what percentage of large website operators whose site designs have such external dependencies have had it occur to them to include those external services in their monitoring systems? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Jan 25, 2014, at 6:07 AM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
I wonder what percentage of large website operators whose site designs have such external dependencies have had it occur to them to include those external services in their monitoring systems?
This presupposes that they actually have monitoring systems which actually perform useful checks. All too often, this isn't the case. ;> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net> // <http://www.arbornetworks.com> Luck is the residue of opportunity and design. -- John Milton
participants (9)
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Christopher Morrow -
Dobbins, Roland -
Gabriel Blanchard -
Jay Ashworth -
Michael Smith -
Scott Howard -
Shrdlu -
Stefan Neufeind -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu