Hey Gang, How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend insists it piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private link for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service. I concede it is possible, but I am skeptical that the high quality of hotspot service we get here in Budapest could be achieved that way. Roderick Beck VP of Business Development United Cable Company www.unitedcablecompany.com<http://www.unitedcablecompany.com> New York City & Budapest rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com Budapest: 36-70-605-5144 NJ: 908-452-8183 [1467221477350_image005.png]
Rod, that’s exactly how they are delivering it. Unclear wether it’s over a separately provisioned bandwidth channel, or wether it shares the aggregate capacity of the HFC. I tend to agree, as the only hotspot service, customer CPE is generally inadequate. However it can be a nice supplement, and some carriers are now experimenting with unlicensed CBRS chipsets in their CPE as well. —L.B. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO ben@6by7.net <mailto:ben@6by7.net> "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” FCC License KJ6FJJ
On Nov 20, 2020, at 3:26 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Hey Gang,
How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend insists it piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private link for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service.
I concede it is possible, but I am skeptical that the high quality of hotspot service we get here in Budapest could be achieved that way.
Roderick Beck VP of Business Development United Cable Company www.unitedcablecompany.com <http://www.unitedcablecompany.com/> New York City & Budapest rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com <mailto:rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> Budapest: 36-70-605-5144 NJ: 908-452-8183
Comcast does exactly that in the US. Some people turn it off though. I can't recall if just the guest hotspot can be disabled on it's own or you have to just turn off wireless completely and use your own kit. Probably depends on the provided gear. Slightly off topic, but the cellular providers here also sell femtocells to customers that want better cellular service in their home or office. They basically offload (and charge) their customers to expand the coverage over the customer's own internet service. *Brandon Svec* *15106862204 <15106862204> voice|sms**teamonesolutions.com <https://teamonesolutions.com/>* On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 3:28 PM Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Hey Gang,
How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend insists it piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private link for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service.
I concede it is possible, but I am skeptical that the high quality of hotspot service we get here in Budapest could be achieved that way.
Roderick Beck VP of Business Development
United Cable Company
www.unitedcablecompany.com
New York City & Budapest
rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com
Budapest: 36-70-605-5144
NJ: 908-452-8183
[image: 1467221477350_image005.png]
I believe they use a separate GRE tunnel back into their network to keep it separate from the local customers traffic. They also do this for other ISPs that they have agreements with, Coz customers can use the Comcast hotspots vice versa. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 20, 2020, at 5:38 PM, Brandon Svec <bsvec@teamonesolutions.com> wrote: *External Email: Use Caution* Comcast does exactly that in the US. Some people turn it off though. I can't recall if just the guest hotspot can be disabled on it's own or you have to just turn off wireless completely and use your own kit. Probably depends on the provided gear. Slightly off topic, but the cellular providers here also sell femtocells to customers that want better cellular service in their home or office. They basically offload (and charge) their customers to expand the coverage over the customer's own internet service. Brandon Svec 15106862204<tel:15106862204> voice|sms teamonesolutions.com<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/ead55edc/XBL3I9uRaUeYA3wEeMuCow?u=https://teamonesolutions.com/> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 3:28 PM Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com<mailto:rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com>> wrote: Hey Gang, How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend insists it piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private link for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service. I concede it is possible, but I am skeptical that the high quality of hotspot service we get here in Budapest could be achieved that way. Roderick Beck VP of Business Development United Cable Company https://link.edgepilot.com/s/5ea8ed14/sFrYHVe990GXCR1yAfigNg?u=http://www.un... New York City & Budapest rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com<mailto:rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> Budapest: 36-70-605-5144 NJ: 908-452-8183 [1467221477350_image005.png] Links contained in this email have been replaced. If you click on a link in the email above, the link will be analyzed for known threats. If a known threat is found, you will not be able to proceed to the destination. If suspicious content is detected, you will see a warning.
That is how Comcast (in the US) does it. They have a single gateway that provides the subscriber services and then allows a public hotspot. Various levels of authentication are used so only “customers” can access via their login, or truly public. They have different QoS for the “subscriber” and hot spot. In business environments they do the same ting, splitting the business customers gateway into the customer and the hotspot traffic. Now not sure about how this might be for Europe with local regulations, but technically it is done all the time. *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+sshali=pluribusnetworks.com@nanog.org> *On Behalf Of *Rod Beck *Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2020 3:27 PM *To:* nanog@nanog.org *Subject:* Cable Company Hotspots Hey Gang, How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend insists it piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private link for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service. I concede it is possible, but I am skeptical that the high quality of hotspot service we get here in Budapest could be achieved that way. Roderick Beck VP of Business Development United Cable Company www.unitedcablecompany.com New York City & Budapest rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com Budapest: 36-70-605-5144 NJ: 908-452-8183
How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend insists it piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private link for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service.
I concede it is possible, but I am skeptical that the high quality of hotspot service we get here in Budapest could be achieved that way.
Calix has this option on the 844G/E CPE. The G is used with fibre based drops and the E is used with cable modems. It is called Community Wifi and is an option that can be enabled in both units. It uses GRE tunnels to backhaul traffic. Never used it so have limited knowledge on actual workings, but have deployed many of both types of CPE's.
Sad that in some cases the extra WiFi usage results in higher electric bills for the consumer.... and cannot be opted out of. -- J. Hellenthal The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
On Nov 22, 2020, at 11:49, kwoody@citywest.ca wrote:
How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend
piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private
insists it link
for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service.
I concede it is possible, but I am skeptical that the high quality of hotspot service we get here in Budapest could be achieved that way.
Calix has this option on the 844G/E CPE. The G is used with fibre based drops and the E is used with cable modems.
It is called Community Wifi and is an option that can be enabled in both units. It uses GRE tunnels to backhaul traffic.
Never used it so have limited knowledge on actual workings, but have deployed many of both types of CPE's.
On 11/22/20 11:50, J. Hellenthal via NANOG wrote:
Sad that in some cases the extra WiFi usage results in higher electric bills for the consumer.... and cannot be opted out of.
Power consumption is going to be miniscule, especially if the consumer opts to use the cable company's built-in wi-fi themselves. If someone is really that concerned about their electric bill they can unplug it when not in use. Not practical if there's an ATA in it used for landline or you have devices requiring Internet access 24/7 like security systems or IoT. Of more practical concern is RF interference. Typically the cable company puts their box in a convenient location for access, either near where the cable comes in to the house or maybe behind the TV. This often isn't the best place for radio coverage but can create strong interference near the box. If the customer doesn't use the cable box's wi-fi and installs their own access point(s), there is no convenient way for them to turn off this functionality. Many customers don't even know it exists. Most front-line cable support techs don't either. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
The dual purpose does explain why the gateways are so big relative to what the incumbent phone companies provide. It is great redundancy. My telco DSL Internet went down and I hopped onto free wireless cable service that I am entitled since most of properties have cable Internet. -R. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+rod.beck=unitedcablecompany.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Jay Hennigan <jay@west.net> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:48 PM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Cable Company Hotspots On 11/22/20 11:50, J. Hellenthal via NANOG wrote:
Sad that in some cases the extra WiFi usage results in higher electric bills for the consumer.... and cannot be opted out of.
Power consumption is going to be miniscule, especially if the consumer opts to use the cable company's built-in wi-fi themselves. If someone is really that concerned about their electric bill they can unplug it when not in use. Not practical if there's an ATA in it used for landline or you have devices requiring Internet access 24/7 like security systems or IoT. Of more practical concern is RF interference. Typically the cable company puts their box in a convenient location for access, either near where the cable comes in to the house or maybe behind the TV. This often isn't the best place for radio coverage but can create strong interference near the box. If the customer doesn't use the cable box's wi-fi and installs their own access point(s), there is no convenient way for them to turn off this functionality. Many customers don't even know it exists. Most front-line cable support techs don't either. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
With Comcast, the subscriber can disable the public WiFi hotspot gateway through their on-line portal (at least when I had a comcast gateway you could do this). Of course when you go to a customer-provided cable modem and/or CPE WiFi AP the hotspot no longer exists as the MSO no longer controls the prem device. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+sshali=pluribusnetworks.com@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:49 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Cable Company Hotspots On 11/22/20 11:50, J. Hellenthal via NANOG wrote:
Sad that in some cases the extra WiFi usage results in higher electric bills for the consumer.... and cannot be opted out of.
Power consumption is going to be miniscule, especially if the consumer opts to use the cable company's built-in wi-fi themselves. If someone is really that concerned about their electric bill they can unplug it when not in use. Not practical if there's an ATA in it used for landline or you have devices requiring Internet access 24/7 like security systems or IoT. Of more practical concern is RF interference. Typically the cable company puts their box in a convenient location for access, either near where the cable comes in to the house or maybe behind the TV. This often isn't the best place for radio coverage but can create strong interference near the box. If the customer doesn't use the cable box's wi-fi and installs their own access point(s), there is no convenient way for them to turn off this functionality. Many customers don't even know it exists. Most front-line cable support techs don't either. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
Once upon a time, J. Hellenthal <jhellenthal@dataix.net> said:
Sad that in some cases the extra WiFi usage results in higher electric bills for the consumer.... and cannot be opted out of.
That's the worst argument against this. Of course you can opt out; don't use the cable company's box. And adding an extra SSID to an already-operating access point (and additional traffic when it used) is going to be difficult to even measure as a power utilization difference. If it increased power by an average of one watt (which I really doubt it'd be that high), that's less than 7 cents per month where I live. -- Chris Adams <cma@cmadams.net>
Hi, Cable Cos do this in several ways. Enabled hot spot on the cable provider cpe with separate ssid, sometimes the same channel sometimes dedicated radio and channel (I prefer the same channel as many areas have way too much noise). This hotspot service is using it's own docsis channels and generally a tunnel. Also many are installing wire or poll mounted access points for outdoor coverage. These are not using anything at a customer location. Harry On November 20, 2020 4:26:33 PM MST, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Hey Gang,
How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend insists it piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private link for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service.
I concede it is possible, but I am skeptical that the high quality of hotspot service we get here in Budapest could be achieved that way.
Roderick Beck
VP of Business Development
United Cable Company
www.unitedcablecompany.com<http://www.unitedcablecompany.com>
New York City & Budapest
rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com
Budapest: 36-70-605-5144
NJ: 908-452-8183
[1467221477350_image005.png]
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On 11/20/20 15:26, Rod Beck wrote:
Hey Gang,
How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend insists it piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private link for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service.
That's pretty much it. The cable provider typically provides a multi-function box that's a cable modem, NAT router, analog telephone adapter, and wi-fi hotspot. In addition to the SSID for individual customer use they by default have a generic SSID that is used by any roaming Comcast customer within range. This has a nasty habit of landing on the same channel as other devices and causing interference. The user interface doesn't show this or have any way of disabling it. They provided one of these for my sister and of course their box wasn't exactly in the best place in the house for radio. I put in a proper access point and it took several phone calls to tech support to get them to turn off the radio in their box completely including the default roaming SSID. I was this >< close to opening the thing up to figure out which trace to cut when I finally got someone with enough clue to turn it off. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Beck" <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com>
Hey Gang,
How do the cable companies generally deliver this service? A friend insists it piggybacks off the WIFI radios of existing cable company subscribers. In other words, the cable company WIFI router in a flat is providing both a private link for the flat's subscriber, but also a public hotspot service.
I concede it is possible, but I am skeptical that the high quality of hotspot service we get here in Budapest could be achieved that way.
Spectrum, formerly Bright House, and I don't think they did it when they were still Road Runner/TWC, does it by splitting the RF into a separate Surfboard and a Ruckus AP; all they borrow from the business customer in question is a couple watts of AC and a square foot of backboard -- if you have one; they'll put the AP wherever is high enough and clear enough. The tradeoff is you get to use all the other ones. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
participants (12)
-
Brandon Svec -
Chris Adams -
Harry McGregor -
J. Hellenthal -
Jay Hennigan -
Jay R. Ashworth -
kwoody＠citywest.ca -
Lady Benjamin PD Cannon -
Livingood, Jason -
Luke Guillory -
Rod Beck -
Steven Shalita