ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack. is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use? randy
On 17/02/12 10:08, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
randy
Many label makers (including Brother) use tapes that have a split up the middle of the back layer, so you can peel it off half-at-a-time and not fight with finding edges, etc. Otherwise I suppose it's just a case of finding the knack. My label maker is of the cheaper variety and the tape i've been getting for it doesn't have the back-split, so I get to fight with it on the occasion that the knack doesn't seem to work... Mark.
we just use paper labels and markers, much faster & easier. it's not just the "peeling the back of it", its also the "entering the stuff on the tiny keyboard" and unlike labelprinter stickers, they hold in higher temperatures with low humidity and lots of airflow after a few years ;) we've found that with most labelwriters, the only thing keeping the labels on the hardware after several years in a datacenter environment is the vacume between the label and the metal, the glue kinda "disappears" in air like that :P as for servers: well.. the ones with a led display are nice... (hint ibm/cisco... crappy dells have them, why don't yours ;) (would be nice to also see led displays on cisco switches in the future, but keep in mind: NOT displaying hostnames/ip addresses!!! has to be a seperate config entry!) (especially since they can be automatically updated during pxe reinstalls with the new service-id number ;) anyway, ditch the labelwriters alltogether, just get sheets with paper stickers and write the stuff on them with markers, faster, more efficient, lasts longer. the labelwriter crap just "falls off" after a while, then gets blown away, potentially ending up in a ventilator etc. -- Greetings, Sven Olaf Kamphuis, CB3ROB Ltd. & Co. KG ========================================================================= Address: Koloniestrasse 34 VAT Tax ID: DE267268209 D-13359 Registration: HRA 42834 B BERLIN Phone: +31/(0)87-8747479 Germany GSM: +49/(0)152-26410799 RIPE: CBSK1-RIPE e-Mail: sven@cb3rob.net ========================================================================= <penpen> C3P0, der elektrische Westerwelle http://www.facebook.com/cb3rob ========================================================================= Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Mark Foster wrote:
On 17/02/12 10:08, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
randy
Many label makers (including Brother) use tapes that have a split up the middle of the back layer, so you can peel it off half-at-a-time and not fight with finding edges, etc.
Otherwise I suppose it's just a case of finding the knack. My label maker is of the cheaper variety and the tape i've been getting for it doesn't have the back-split, so I get to fight with it on the occasion that the knack doesn't seem to work...
Mark.
[ just reporting the conclusion ]
Many label makers (including Brother) use tapes that have a split up the middle of the back layer, so you can peel it off half-at-a-time and not fight with finding edges, etc.
yesterday i was in the westin for the first time since my new cheapo label maker arrived. i got a brother PT-1290, $38 at newegg. for what i do, small and cheap and cheap are fine. the TZ style split-back label made life sooooo much easier. highly recommended. thanks to all who suggested. randy
Brothers' are fine; buy the tapes that have the split-down-the-middle backing on them. It reduces the unpeeling problem from more-time-than-the-label-took-to-type-in to about 2 seconds. You just grab the edges at an end and bend it, so the backing bulges outwards, and off it starts to come. -george On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
randy
-- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com
On 16/02/2012 21:14, George Herbert wrote:
Brothers' are fine; buy the tapes that have the split-down-the-middle backing on them.
It reduces the unpeeling problem from more-time-than-the-label-took-to-type-in to about 2 seconds. You just grab the edges at an end and bend it, so the backing bulges outwards, and off it starts to come.
Well, that's the theory anyway. The reality is that the split doesn't quite split, and because the tape is so small, you need a child's fingers to open it out. If you're doing all the labelling after a long day's work, you might have worked up a sweat, in which case your hands will be covered with salt - and we all know how well labels stick after being pawed at with a salty fingernail. Nick
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2012 21:14, George Herbert wrote:
Brothers' are fine; buy the tapes that have the split-down-the-middle backing on them.
It reduces the unpeeling problem from more-time-than-the-label-took-to-type-in to about 2 seconds. You just grab the edges at an end and bend it, so the backing bulges outwards, and off it starts to come.
Well, that's the theory anyway. The reality is that the split doesn't quite split, and because the tape is so small, you need a child's fingers to open it out. If you're doing all the labelling after a long day's work, you might have worked up a sweat, in which case your hands will be covered with salt - and we all know how well labels stick after being pawed at with a salty fingernail.
I've done several dozens of reels worth of the split-back (TZ type, I guess) tape, as well as about an equal amount of the old non-split tape, in datacenters and network centers going back into the early 1990s. The worst split tape was at least partly splitting and much better than the non-split stuff. Once I had it figured out I could pop it open and start unpeeling blind, without looking at it. Even at the end of the day with grime and dust and salt on my fingernails. Your mileage may vary, but in my experience it just about always just works. -- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com
In a message written on Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 01:08:46PM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
The Brother I have that takes "M" tape has the problem you describe, it's nearly impossible to get the backing to separate from the label. I have another Brother that takes "TZ" tape, the backing of the tape of slit down the middle lengthwise. Gently curling the tape by squeezing it causes the middle to pop open, easy to grab. You can guess which one sits on the shelf, and which one gets used a lot. The TZ tape unit I use is a P-Touch 1100QL, I don't think it's made anymore but there are several similar curent models. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
If they are Dell servers, you could always name each host in their BIOS so it shows up on the display of the host. -Mike On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
In a message written on Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 01:08:46PM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
The Brother I have that takes "M" tape has the problem you describe, it's nearly impossible to get the backing to separate from the label.
I have another Brother that takes "TZ" tape, the backing of the tape of slit down the middle lengthwise. Gently curling the tape by squeezing it causes the middle to pop open, easy to grab.
You can guess which one sits on the shelf, and which one gets used a lot.
The TZ tape unit I use is a P-Touch 1100QL, I don't think it's made anymore but there are several similar curent models.
-- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
-- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.lyon@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Mike Lyon <mike.lyon@gmail.com> wrote:
If they are Dell servers, you could always name each host in their BIOS so it shows up on the display of the host.
provided the dell actually had that display, and provided the server didn't toss a PS ... http://www.amazon.com/RHINO-101-WITH-SELF-LAM/dp/B001O84KYE sort of looks neat, wonder if the tape is the split-type.
-Mike
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
In a message written on Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 01:08:46PM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
The Brother I have that takes "M" tape has the problem you describe, it's nearly impossible to get the backing to separate from the label.
I have another Brother that takes "TZ" tape, the backing of the tape of slit down the middle lengthwise. Gently curling the tape by squeezing it causes the middle to pop open, easy to grab.
You can guess which one sits on the shelf, and which one gets used a lot.
The TZ tape unit I use is a P-Touch 1100QL, I don't think it's made anymore but there are several similar curent models.
-- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
-- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.lyon@gmail.com
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:18:42 -0500, Mike Lyon <mike.lyon@gmail.com> wrote:
If they are Dell servers, you could always name each host in their BIOS so it shows up on the display of the host.
I did that with a batch of sun v20z's... when they got to the colo, no one knew which was which until they're powered and the service processor is fully booted. (a process that takes several minutes) By then, they've been racked in the wrong racks and in the wrong order. :-( Of course, I've done that to myself as well... pull a stack of machines and forget what order they were in :-) --Ricky
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Ricky Beam <jfbeam@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:18:42 -0500, Mike Lyon <mike.lyon@gmail.com> wrote:
If they are Dell servers, you could always name each host in their BIOS so it shows up on the display of the host.
I did that with a batch of sun v20z's... when they got to the colo, no one knew which was which until they're powered and the service processor is fully booted. (a process that takes several minutes) By then, they've been racked in the wrong racks and in the wrong order. :-( Of course, I've done that to myself as well... pull a stack of machines and forget what order they were in :-)
And watch for the removable faceplates. We've been bitten before after a server move by rebooting a server that had the correct label but the wrong faceplate. Now we label the faceplate as well as underneath of it too. :-) -B
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Bryan Irvine wrote:
And watch for the removable faceplates. We've been bitten before after a server move by rebooting a server that had the correct label but the wrong faceplate. Now we label the faceplate as well as underneath of it too. :-)
We do the same with cabinets. Both the doors and the inner frame of the cabinet get labeled, since doors can often be removed during rack-and-stack work. In the event of a mismatch, the label on the inner frame is generally the winner :) jms
Once upon a time, Bryan Irvine <sparctacus@gmail.com> said:
And watch for the removable faceplates. We've been bitten before after a server move by rebooting a server that had the correct label but the wrong faceplate. Now we label the faceplate as well as underneath of it too. :-)
Not just faceplates; we got a couple of racks of used Dell servers and were rolling through testing them when we discovered a couple where the Dell tag on the lid didn't match the firmware. The tag on the back did; at some point, somebody had switched lids on the cases! -- Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
manufacturers printing the mac address of eth0 and the bmc on the back of the case somewhere at the factory would be appreciated too. preferably with a barcode as well. the mac addresses is usually nowhere to be found on servers. the things should just ship with the bmc set to dhcp, a barcode readable label with the mac addresses, serial console enabled at 9600n81 with portsharing with the bmc SOL, and pxe and wol enabled -- who do these manufacturers think they're selling to anyway, people that buy just one unit and have all day to install it or what? Greetings, Sven Olaf Kamphuis, CB3ROB Ltd. & Co. KG ========================================================================= Address: Koloniestrasse 34 VAT Tax ID: DE267268209 D-13359 Registration: HRA 42834 B BERLIN Phone: +31/(0)87-8747479 Germany GSM: +49/(0)152-26410799 RIPE: CBSK1-RIPE e-Mail: sven@cb3rob.net ========================================================================= <penpen> C3P0, der elektrische Westerwelle http://www.facebook.com/cb3rob ========================================================================= Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Bryan Irvine <sparctacus@gmail.com> said:
And watch for the removable faceplates. We've been bitten before after a server move by rebooting a server that had the correct label but the wrong faceplate. Now we label the faceplate as well as underneath of it too. :-)
Not just faceplates; we got a couple of racks of used Dell servers and were rolling through testing them when we discovered a couple where the Dell tag on the lid didn't match the firmware. The tag on the back did; at some point, somebody had switched lids on the cases! -- Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
On 02/16/12 14:21, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Bryan Irvine<sparctacus@gmail.com> said:
And watch for the removable faceplates. We've been bitten before after a server move by rebooting a server that had the correct label but the wrong faceplate. Now we label the faceplate as well as underneath of it too. :-)
Not just faceplates; we got a couple of racks of used Dell servers and were rolling through testing them when we discovered a couple where the Dell tag on the lid didn't match the firmware. The tag on the back did; at some point, somebody had switched lids on the cases!
There's where labelers can come in really handy. A "friend" once told me this story: He and a colleague were working at the PAIX late one night re-routing a bunch of fiber jumpers from a switch to new interfaces on some optical gear. The labels on all of the cables were supposed to have the switch's model number and interface number and then the optical gear's model number and interface. The colleague went about generating all of the labels while my friend cleaned, ran, and installed the jumpers. Then they both set about affixing labels to both ends of the jumpers. The colleague suddenly stopped and said "we're going to have to re-do all of these labels! Look--I got the model number of the switch wrong." Indeed, the colleague had added 100 to the model number of the switch, and had done so on all of the 2-3 dozen labels. Not catastrophic, but it was late (about 3am) and my friend and the colleague still had a lot of work to do. It was cramped, noisy, and cold where they were working. "Nonsense," said my friend. "Give me the labeler." "What are you going to do?" "I am going to upgrade the switch." He set about relabeling the switch's faceplates so that all of the model numbers matched the (incorrect) model number on the cable labels. Problem solved and only 2-3 labels used, not 2-3 dozen. Ever hear of a Cisco 6600? Now you have. Strangely, my friend and that colleague have never been invited back to perform similar "upgrades" for that customer. michael
you actually can do that from linux, integrate it into your installer/imaging code and you're set ;) just that dell seems to be the only one who has given this some thought ;) but hey, you can just buy usb "photoframe" keychains, put the service-id number in a jpeg image, store it on there, and keep one in a usb port on each server ;) they're dirt cheap. On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Mike Lyon wrote:
If they are Dell servers, you could always name each host in their BIOS so it shows up on the display of the host.
-Mike
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
In a message written on Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 01:08:46PM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
The Brother I have that takes "M" tape has the problem you describe, it's nearly impossible to get the backing to separate from the label.
I have another Brother that takes "TZ" tape, the backing of the tape of slit down the middle lengthwise. Gently curling the tape by squeezing it causes the middle to pop open, easy to grab.
You can guess which one sits on the shelf, and which one gets used a lot.
The TZ tape unit I use is a P-Touch 1100QL, I don't think it's made anymore but there are several similar curent models.
-- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
-- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.lyon@gmail.com
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a
The other trick is to pre-print your labels. We use a Brother PT-9500PC to print our labels. It is a dedicated PC printer, but it always half-cuts a little tab at the end of the label so you bend the label at the cut and it is simple to pull off. Thanks, Erik -----Original Message----- From: Leo Bicknell [mailto:bicknell@ufp.org] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:16 PM To: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: time sink 42 In a message written on Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 01:08:46PM -0800, Randy Bush wrote: little
label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
The Brother I have that takes "M" tape has the problem you describe, it's nearly impossible to get the backing to separate from the label. I have another Brother that takes "TZ" tape, the backing of the tape of slit down the middle lengthwise. Gently curling the tape by squeezing it causes the middle to pop open, easy to grab. You can guess which one sits on the shelf, and which one gets used a lot. The TZ tape unit I use is a P-Touch 1100QL, I don't think it's made anymore but there are several similar curent models. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Leo Bicknell wrote:
The Brother I have that takes "M" tape has the problem you describe, it's nearly impossible to get the backing to separate from the label.
I have another Brother that takes "TZ" tape, the backing of the tape of slit down the middle lengthwise. Gently curling the tape by squeezing it causes the middle to pop open, easy to grab.
+1 for the TZ tape. It is made of a heavier material than the M tape, and has better adhesive that will better on equipment that has any sort of textured finish, such as many types of cabinets, patch panels, and fiber termination bays. Labels that are made with M tape will start to peel off of just about anything that doesn't have a smooth finish shortly after being applied. jms
At 04:08 PM 2/16/2012, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
If you can't find the split back I've used a black uniball pen. Stick tape between pen and metal clip. Rotate pen about 90 degrees so there's a bend in the tape. But thumb against the metal, holding the tape in place. Pull pen along the length of the tape. (think about the old trick with scissors and making wrapping ribbon for presents turn into a curlycue. That tends to create enough of a tension between the front of the tape and the back and it'll be peeled apart.
randy
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/ CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
If you're building a datacenter probably not. Other than giving the remote hands some identifier and making them label the servers themselves. If you're at a conference you could get away with using masking tape and a sharpie. If you think it was time consuming applying the labels wait until you need to remove one. 2012/2/16 Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
randy
On 2/16/12 1:25 PM, Keegan Holley wrote:
If you're building a datacenter probably not. Other than giving the remote hands some identifier and making them label the servers themselves. If you're at a conference you could get away with using masking tape and a sharpie. If you think it was time consuming applying the labels wait until you need to remove one.
The flat end of a spudger makes quick work of removing labels for me. ~Seth
Subject: Re: time sink 42 Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 04:25:15PM -0500 Quoting Keegan Holley (keegan.holley@sungard.com):
If you're building a datacenter probably not. Other than giving the remote hands some identifier and making them label the servers themselves. If you're at a conference you could get away with using masking tape and a sharpie.
The Sharpie(tm) gets my full approval. The masking tape not. For conferences, Permacel 724 is the ultimate tape, as seen on major rock tours. http://www.goodbuyguys.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/22_52_83 For more permanent marking, without going to label printing (for which I think Brady is the best) I like tesa brand cloth tape from Beiersdorf. 4541 is my favourite model. http://www.tesatape.com/industry/products/tesa_4541.html -- Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668 hubub, hubub, HUBUB, hubub, hubub, hubub, HUBUB, hubub, hubub, hubub.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 02/16/2012 21:10, Måns Nilsson wrote:
The Sharpie(tm) gets my full approval.
The masking tape not.
For conferences, Permacel 724 is the ultimate tape
For less fancy/lower budget alternatives the blue "painter's masking tape" is a better choice. - -- It's always a long day; 86400 doesn't fit into a short. Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJPPeU+AAoJEFzGhvEaGryEly4IAKEmNpmDqAzFKPpVm7VpnT4r 5yGGNpBfBXOD960KXJ3ZrkA1/CvDx6u6VF3GrtzBaWMD34BqJsO6372xD1YEeoUD 1XWF+Ju3huEIMBKSttBNjEJopbW5yy1a6l0+Csv++8J5jb+8NqQV+YSnwp+5kcb9 r6gHykCZFo75raMl++UYdOtCE15ygABkZby++ch2xQcWJez/BVhFuApATENgsrmp Yz2JuHDr+OA8eyyXUQOlWwMfoVqJeBm2Tt4AIky8HiuktLjOKnynoJ0PpnmJ3Oym r6doLUnomw4fbQZszLRjxP+AvnjHcP6/7GTHlXlhD9yMHbhbw9XgnmvT/3U1zLo= =qwAs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Randy Bush wrote:
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
Nobody's been a smart ass yet and suggested a roll of duct tape and a sharpie? All the labelers I've used have had the split down the middle tape, so just bend the label horizontally onto itself, and the backing separates. Which reminds me, I have a new fiber transit connection I just turned up which needs labeling...and someone seems to have run off with my brother. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
Once upon a time, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> said:
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
Like others, I use a Brother P-Touch with TZ tapes with a split down the middle. However, the last couple of tapes had splits that weren't cut quite right, and they wouldn't peel easily. What I usually do in that case (or with non-split tape) is to curl the end of the tape across the blade of my pocket knife. The tape and the backing curl differently, so this makes it easy to then get the blade of the knife between the tape and the backing and separate them. -- Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 01:08:46PM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
Randy, Personally, I got tired of buying batteries, and expensive label tapes, and tend to stick with Avery labels from the office supply store (or Brady labels for cabling), and preprinting. Either can be run through a typewriter, and the Avery labels tend to run through a standard office printer just fine. Then I just have to peel a standard label off of wax paper, which is much easier than dealing with plastic tape that appears to be fused to its backing at the factory. The split back variety is a little better, but even then it can be hard to get your fingernails under the other side. We haven't really improved much on labeling technology in decades. --msa
-----Original Message----- From: Majdi S. Abbas [mailto:msa@latt.net] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 16:35 To: Randy Bush Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: time sink 42
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 01:08:46PM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
Randy,
Personally, I got tired of buying batteries, and expensive label tapes, and tend to stick with Avery labels from the office supply store (or Brady labels for cabling), and preprinting. Either can be run through a typewriter, and the Avery labels tend to run through a standard office printer just fine.
Then I just have to peel a standard label off of wax paper, which is much easier than dealing with plastic tape that appears to be fused to its backing at the factory.
The split back variety is a little better, but even then it can be hard to get your fingernails under the other side. We haven't really improved much on labeling technology in decades.
--msa
No mention of good (*detailed*) documentation based on model/serial number and facility rack ID/rack position in case the label were to inadvertently be removed/fall off/etc.? Only issue with that approach is that if the colo facility moves your hardware at some point you need to ensure that they let you know that so you can update your documentation to coincide with (hopefully) their documentation of where your equipment is located. Justin
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:45:49 GMT, "Dixon, Justin" said:
Only issue with that approach is that if the colo facility moves your hardware at some point you need to ensure that they let you know that so you can update your documentation to coincide with (hopefully) their documentation of where your equipment is located.
Cloud computing - when you pay a premium for them not to let you know when they do that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Bush" <randy@psg.com>
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
1) You should make sure you're buying the newer crack-n-peel labels, on which the backing is scored along the center. 2) If you have the older stuff, bend a corner sharply from the plastic side (front) towards the paper side (backing). The plastic label has more spring in it, and will spring back away from the paper -- which will stay bent -- and you'll have some separation that you can peel from. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
Hi Randy, I know where you are coming from. I have going throw many types. Currently we use the Bothers P-Touch with the TZe Tape with the specific "Cable/Wire Labels" tape. It works ok and the labels last much longer then the previous masking tape with sharpe method. Overall I pay more money then I would like for the machine and the Tape. But it seems to work well and that does mean something. One of my techs have been look at the "TekGun - Cable Labeling System" for cables. It does look kind of cool. Anyone here have experience with that TekGun and what are your thoughts on it? Mark Keymer CFO/COO Vivio Technologies On 2/16/2012 1:08 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
randy
On Thu, 2012-02-16 at 13:08 -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker [...] is there a trick?
Some tapes have a split backing; bend the tape along the long axis and you can peel off both halves very easily. If you can't find such tape for your model of label maker, you will need fingernails and either a very good sense of touch or good eyesight. Fold one of the corners of the label, just a tiny corner, back towards the backing paper, then forward. The backing paper will come off that tiny corner. Use the aforementioned fingernails to get under the label at that point. It's usually easier to grip the label than the backing paper, because the label is a little sticky underneath. Some people say you should fold forward then back. Some people use a penknife instead of a fingernail. Another technique, that I've never been able to master: Hold the label, backing towards you, about a centimetre from the cut end, place the cut end at right angles against and across the underside of your right forefinger, pressing very lightly, and drag your finger down. Done right, the backing peels off and curls down your finger. Both techniques rely on the label being slightly stiffer than the backing paper, and thus bending less. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer GPG fingerprint: AE1D 4868 6420 AD9A A698 5251 1699 7B78 4EEE 6017 Old fingerprint: DA41 51B1 1481 16E1 F7E2 B2E9 3007 14ED 5736 F687
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Auer" <kauer@biplane.com.au>
If you can't find such tape for your model of label maker, you will need fingernails and either a very good sense of touch or good eyesight.
Fold one of the corners of the label, just a tiny corner, back towards the backing paper, then forward. The backing paper will come off that tiny corner. Use the aforementioned fingernails to get under the label at that point. It's usually easier to grip the label than the backing paper, because the label is a little sticky underneath.
Some people say you should fold forward then back. Some people use a penknife instead of a fingernail.
It matters which way you bend, because of the relative stiffness of the paper and the plastic; you have to bend *towards* the paper, which will stay folded, away from the plastic. And I have effectively no fingernails, and that method works well enough for me. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
On Thu, 2012-02-16 at 17:17 -0500, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Fold one of the corners of the label, just a tiny corner, back towards the backing paper, then forward.
It matters which way you bend, because of the relative stiffness of the paper and the plastic; you have to bend *towards* the paper, which will stay folded, away from the plastic.
What?!? Forward instead of backward? KILL THE UNBELIEVER! KILL! KILL! The alternative approach, to which ALL right-thinking persons subscribe, is to avoid, as much as possible, folding the label. Because, indeed and as you say, it will remain folded. If the label does have to be bent, it should be left bent down, not up. Bending it towards the backing may work on it's own, subjecting the backing paper to the more acute deformation, and the label may even thereafter return to the flat position uncreased, leaving the backing paper separated. The more destructive bend upwards may also leave a corner of the label bent up and away from the surface the label will be on. The Covenant of the Holy Order of Downfolders meets weekly behind the fourth server rack from the left, lower basement. Batteries not supplied. Bring your own torch, pitchfork, etc. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer GPG fingerprint: AE1D 4868 6420 AD9A A698 5251 1699 7B78 4EEE 6017 Old fingerprint: DA41 51B1 1481 16E1 F7E2 B2E9 3007 14ED 5736 F687
I have been scoring paper back VERY lightly near one end with razor knife, then peeling off. On Feb 16, 2012, at 6:14 PM, Karl Auer wrote: On Thu, 2012-02-16 at 17:17 -0500, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Fold one of the corners of the label, just a tiny corner, back towards the backing paper, then forward.
It matters which way you bend, because of the relative stiffness of the paper and the plastic; you have to bend *towards* the paper, which will stay folded, away from the plastic.
What?!? Forward instead of backward? KILL THE UNBELIEVER! KILL! KILL! The alternative approach, to which ALL right-thinking persons subscribe, is to avoid, as much as possible, folding the label. Because, indeed and as you say, it will remain folded. If the label does have to be bent, it should be left bent down, not up. Bending it towards the backing may work on it's own, subjecting the backing paper to the more acute deformation, and the label may even thereafter return to the flat position uncreased, leaving the backing paper separated. The more destructive bend upwards may also leave a corner of the label bent up and away from the surface the label will be on. The Covenant of the Holy Order of Downfolders meets weekly behind the fourth server rack from the left, lower basement. Batteries not supplied. Bring your own torch, pitchfork, etc. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer GPG fingerprint: AE1D 4868 6420 AD9A A698 5251 1699 7B78 4EEE 6017 Old fingerprint: DA41 51B1 1481 16E1 F7E2 B2E9 3007 14ED 5736 F687
On 17 February 2012 00:52, Sven Olaf Kamphuis <sven@cb3rob.net> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Jerry Jones wrote:
I have been scoring paper back VERY lightly near one end with razor
knife, then peeling off.
sounds like something that increases the time it takes to make and put one single label on by 500%
Not to mention the band-aid you'll need too. Aled
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Auer" <kauer@biplane.com.au>
On Thu, 2012-02-16 at 17:17 -0500, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Fold one of the corners of the label, just a tiny corner, back towards the backing paper, then forward.
It matters which way you bend, because of the relative stiffness of the paper and the plastic; you have to bend *towards* the paper, which will stay folded, away from the plastic.
What?!? Forward instead of backward? KILL THE UNBELIEVER! KILL! KILL!
Way to misquote me, Karl. :-)
The alternative approach, to which ALL right-thinking persons subscribe, is to avoid, as much as possible, folding the label. Because, indeed and as you say, it will remain folded. If the label does have to be bent, it should be left bent down, not up. Bending it towards the backing may work on it's own, subjecting the backing paper to the more acute deformation, and the label may even thereafter return to the flat position uncreased, leaving the backing paper separated. The more destructive bend upwards may also leave a corner of the label bent up and away from the surface the label will be on.
It isn't necessary to bend it so sharply that the crease will stay in the plastic, no. And no, I didn't say the "label would stay folded". I said the "backing would stay folded". GET IT RIGHT!!!!!1111!!!!ONE!!!!ELEVENTYONE!
The Covenant of the Holy Order of Downfolders meets weekly behind the fourth server rack from the left, lower basement. Batteries not supplied. Bring your own torch, pitchfork, etc.
Magic? Or More Magic? Cheers, -- jr 'here commenceth the whacky weekend' a -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
On Fri, 2012-02-17 at 10:28 -0500, Jay Ashworth wrote:
What?!? Forward instead of backward? KILL THE UNBELIEVER! KILL! KILL!
Way to misquote me, Karl. :-)
Ayup! :-) Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer GPG fingerprint: AE1D 4868 6420 AD9A A698 5251 1699 7B78 4EEE 6017 Old fingerprint: DA41 51B1 1481 16E1 F7E2 B2E9 3007 14ED 5736 F687
For the regular Brother labels, my trick is to fold down the corner a little, that usually makes it easier to peel. You can also cut the "whitespace" off the end and that sometimes helps. Sorry if this was a double post, but I don't think I saw either of these suggestions in the thread already. If so make that a +1. -Scott -----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:09 PM To: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: time sink 42 ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack. is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use? randy
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Randy Bush wrote:
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
the rhino pro labelers and labels have a split on the backer so they peel easy. oh, and they dont come off with heat exposure (some of them are even ok after a few years outdoors in florida) like the brother junk does. I think my megadeluxewithacase model cost about $100 from provantage... :) -- david raistrick http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html drais@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
For standard linear tape labels, making a sharp s-curve bend in the label near one end will often cause the backing to readily separate from the label at that end. Brother used to include a nifty little tool for doing just that stuck in the bottom of many of their P-Touch labelers. Don't know if they still do or not. This trick also works on the linear tape labels on the Brady I mentioned in response to JRA's question as well. For the self-laminating cable labels, the labels don't stretch all the way to the edge of the backing, so, simple bending of the backing and attacking with fingernail works pretty quick and easy. Owen On Feb 16, 2012, at 3:32 PM, david raistrick wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Randy Bush wrote:
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
the rhino pro labelers and labels have a split on the backer so they peel easy. oh, and they dont come off with heat exposure (some of them are even ok after a few years outdoors in florida) like the brother junk does.
I think my megadeluxewithacase model cost about $100 from provantage...
:)
-- david raistrick http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html drais@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
ok, this is horribly pragmatic, but it's real. yesterday i was in the westin playing rack and stack for five hours. an horrifyingly large amount of my time was spent trying to peel apart labels made on my portable brother label tape maker, yes peeling the backing from a little label so remote hands could easily confirm a server they were going to attack.
is there a trick? is there a (not expensive) different labeling machine or technique i should use?
I hate all the newer Brother labelmakers I've seen - pretty much for this very reason. I've never found a good method for quickly and reliably removing the backings for them. We have a bunch of older Brother PT-20's that use the TC-20 tape. This is a generally awesome but a little limited labelmaker. It's a bit big, but it does offer a nicer keyboard than most current devices. The three maybe-gotchas all involve the tape being a multipart tape: you have a sticky backing on which the lettering is printed, which is then covered with a very resilient plastic laminate covering, all pressed together/ assembled inside the tape cartridge as part of the printing process. 1) Sometimes, when removing the labels, the plastic laminate cover will delaminate from the sticky tape - leaving a peeling-it-off nightmare. In all fairness, the types of surface that this happens on typically cause Brother TZ-style labels to shred too. I have never fully identified the types of surfaces involved, but some plastics seem to be the biggest trouble. 2) Occasionally, with age, we've seen short sections (~.5cm) delaminate and leave a little "loop" or "bubble" in the middle of a label. Usually in hot/humid environments. 3) Due to the lamination technique, the label is very springy and cannot be used for cable markings. Other than these occasional issues, we have been exceedingly pleased with the PT-20's for many years, perhaps as many as 20 years now. They're great for marking all sorts of things, from file folders to electronic gear. I would avoid the newer Brother units I've seen in favor of some of the other units people have mentioned, but for inexpensive basic server marking, I still really like the PT-20's. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
I hate all the newer Brother labelmakers I've seen - pretty much for this very reason. I've never found a good method for quickly and reliably removing the backings for them.
The one thing I absolutely cannot stand about all the low-end brothers is the amount of waste they generate. When printing single labels, they spit out a useless 3/4 inch tab that you have to hit the 'cut' lever for. This tab is the tape that was wasted pushing out the last label. I would estimate this consumes about 20% of the tape on these printers - perhaps less if you chain print or have longer labels. The PT-1830 and PT-1880 are good examples of this insanity.
participants (33)
-
Aled Morris -
Bryan Irvine -
Chris Adams -
Christopher Morrow -
david raistrick -
Dixon, Justin -
Doug Barton -
Erik Soosalu -
George Herbert -
Greg D. Moore -
Jay Ashworth -
Jerry Jones -
Joe Greco -
Jon Lewis -
Justin M. Streiner -
Karl Auer -
Keegan Holley -
Leo Bicknell -
Majdi S. Abbas -
Mark Foster -
Mark Keymer -
Michael Sinatra -
Mike Lyon -
Måns Nilsson -
Nathan Eisenberg -
Nick Hilliard -
Owen DeLong -
Randy Bush -
Ricky Beam -
Scott Berkman -
Seth Mattinen -
Sven Olaf Kamphuis -
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