The issue now is convincing clients that they need it. The other issue is many software vendors still don't support it. Regards, Dovid -----Original Message----- From: Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> Sender: "NANOG" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org>Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:46:31 To: John Curran<jcurran@arin.net> Cc: NANOG<nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: ARIN Region IPv4 Free Pool Reaches Zero On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 9:34 AM, John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:

(Apologies for redistribution, but need to insure that this is seen by all in the region.)

The IPv4 free pool for the ARIN region is now depleted; ISPs are encouraged to utilize IPv6 for additional customer growth and the IPv4 transfer market for their IPv4 interim needs.

Hooray! Come on in, the IPv6 water is fine http://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/ Over 20% of Google view are on IPv6 https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html And, IPv6 is 10-15% faster https://code.facebook.com/posts/1192894270727351/ipv6-it-s-time-to-get-on-bo... CB

Thanks! /John

John Curran President and CEO ARIN

Begin forwarded message:

From: ARIN <info@arin.net<mailto:info@arin.net>> Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN IPv4 Free Pool Reaches Zero Date: September 24, 2015 at 12:04:22 PM EDT To: <arin-announce@arin.net<mailto:arin-announce@arin.net>>

On 24 September 2015, ARIN issued the final IPv4 addresses in its free pool. ARIN will continue to process and approve requests for IPv4 address blocks. Those approved requests may be fulfilled via the Wait List for Unmet IPv4 Requests, or through the IPv4 Transfer Market.

For information on the Waiting List, visit: https://www.arin.net/resources/request/waiting_list.html

For information on IPv4 Transfers, visit: https://www.arin.net/resources/transfers/index.html

Exhaustion of the ARIN Free Pool does trigger changes in ARIN's Specified Transfer policy (NRPM 8.3) and Inter-RIR Transfer policy (NRPM 8.4). In both cases, these changes impact organizations that have been the source entity in a specified transfer within the last twelve months:

"The source entity (-ies within the ARIN Region (8.4)) will be ineligible to receive any further IPv4 address allocations or assignments from ARIN for a period of 12 months after a transfer approval, or until the exhaustion of ARIN's IPv4 space, whichever occurs first."

Effective today, because exhaustion of the ARIN IPv4 free pool has occurred for the first time, there is no longer a restriction on how often organizations may request transfers to specified recipients.

In the future, any IPv4 address space that ARIN receives from IANA, or recovers from revocations or returns from organizations, will be used to satisfy approved requests on the Waiting List for Unmet Requests. If we are able to fully satisfy all of the requests on the waiting list, any remaining IPv4 addresses would be placed into the ARIN free pool of IPv4 addresses to satisfy future requests.

ARIN encourages customers with questions about IPv4 availability to contact hostmaster@arin.net or the Registration Services Help Desk at +1.703.227.0660.

Regards,

John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)

_______________________________________________ ARIN-Announce You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce@arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.

On 9/24/15 09:59, William Astle wrote:

On 2015-09-24 10:49, Dovid Bender wrote:

...

The issue now is convincing clients that they need it. The other issue is many software vendors still don't support it.

Regards,

Dovid

Actually, the issue now is convincing certain big providers to actually make IPv6 service available to their customers in data centres and the like across their *whole* networks rather than giving people the "there's no demand so we can't justify the cost" run around. (I'm looking at you AS701.)

For that matter, it would also help if certain large end user providers would make IPv6 available rather than giving a standard "we have no information at this time" type response. (I'm looking at you, Shaw.)

What's worked for me is not signing or renewing or buying things that lack IPv6 support. I realize that may not always be possible but it does work better to require it from the sales side than as a technical problem to try and solve later. ~Seth

Hi,

IPv6 traffic roughly doubled in my view of the internet in the past ~2 weeks as the 9.0 GM image hit and the public release of 9.0 came out.

0.001% of traffic to 0.002% ;-) joking aside as I'm a big IPv6 champion.... IPv6 is picking up a lot recently....and whilst the bahviour change of IOS9 has helped...clients themselves dont change the networks they are using - the networks themselves need to support this protocol, route it etc as we all know...so, if nothing else, IOS9 has revealed more that many parts of the internet are IPv6 enabled and ready to be used. alan

On 09/24/2015 09:49 AM, Dovid Bender wrote:

The issue now is convincing clients that they need it. The other issue is many software vendors still don't support it.

And this may trigger a refresh on routers, as people old or refurbed equipment find they need to change. The whole reason for the inertia against going to IPv6 is "it ain't broke, so I not gonna 'fix' it." Now it's broke.

T-Mobile implemented 464XLAT successfully, but I have no idea how long they will still depend on IPv4 because of that setup. On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Steve Mikulasik <Steve.Mikulasik@civeo.com> wrote:

Let's just hope carriers don't try to fix IPv4 instead of going to IPv6. I'd like my children to grow up in a worlds without cgnat.

-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Satchell Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 1:38 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: ARIN Region IPv4 Free Pool Reaches Zero

On 09/24/2015 09:49 AM, Dovid Bender wrote:

...

The issue now is convincing clients that they need it. The other issue is many software vendors still don't support it.

And this may trigger a refresh on routers, as people old or refurbed equipment find they need to change. The whole reason for the inertia against going to IPv6 is "it ain't broke, so I not gonna 'fix' it."

Now it's broke.

===== The whole reason for the inertia against going to IPv6 is "it ain't broke, so I not gonna 'fix' it." Now it's broke. ===== ^^^^^^^This ^^^^^^^^^^^ ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Satchell" <list@satchell.net> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 2:38:26 PM Subject: Re: ARIN Region IPv4 Free Pool Reaches Zero On 09/24/2015 09:49 AM, Dovid Bender wrote:

The issue now is convincing clients that they need it. The other issue is many software vendors still don't support it.

And this may trigger a refresh on routers, as people old or refurbed equipment find they need to change. The whole reason for the inertia against going to IPv6 is "it ain't broke, so I not gonna 'fix' it." Now it's broke.

IPv4's works better today than ever before. IP space in North America has now officially turned into a revenue source for networks. Most private enterprise customers understand costs and profits. Business does not understand free stuff in a free market. Hence, IPv4 is no longer free in a block range perspective. To any business with rising employee medical insurance, electricity and office rent rates, an IP address cost is just not on the radar. Just not a large enough cost to make IPv6 look financially attractive. Only when IPv4 address costs begin to exceed that of the hardware and labor conversion costs, will IPv6 gain traction in North America. So for the most part your teenage kids will grow up in an IPv4 world until they are probably 30,something. But, your grand kids will see IPv4 as soooo old. That's all contingent upon all the networks we work on start charging $10 or more per IP address per month. Thank You Bob Evans CTO

Remember, the Internet being fully migrated to IPv6 is just 5 yrs away just like fusion power plants is 20 yrs away (although I think now they are saying 50 yrs away which would make IPv6 12.5 yrs away). (=

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -ITG (ITechGeek) ITG@ITechGeek.Com https://itg.nu/ GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net

On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:

...

===== The whole reason for the inertia against going to IPv6 is "it ain't broke, so I not gonna 'fix' it."

Now it's broke. =====

^^^^^^^This ^^^^^^^^^^^

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "Stephen Satchell" <list@satchell.net> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 2:38:26 PM Subject: Re: ARIN Region IPv4 Free Pool Reaches Zero

On 09/24/2015 09:49 AM, Dovid Bender wrote:

...

The issue now is convincing clients that they need it. The other issue is many software vendors still don't support it.

And this may trigger a refresh on routers, as people old or refurbed equipment find they need to change. The whole reason for the inertia against going to IPv6 is "it ain't broke, so I not gonna 'fix' it."

Now it's broke.

According to http://business.comcast.com/internet/business-internet/static-= ip Comcast charges $19.95 per month for one static IPv4 address.

High dollar amounts for a single static IPv4 address are nothing new, and are IMHO a side effect of monopoly/duopoly last mile providers being able to shake down end users because the end user's financially viable options are typically just "pay up or don't get a static." The question really at hand: what happens when you need to host a new pile of servers, need/can-justify a /24, and your hosting provider quotes you $2560/month just for the IP space (at $10/IP)? That'd be an incentive to look seriously at IPv6.... I *think*. Switching hosting providers will probably become a popular game for the early depletion era, as providers attempt to rob each other of customers. That's probably a losing game in the long run. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.

...

The question really at hand: what happens when you need to host a new=20=

...

pile of servers, need/can-justify a /24, and your hosting provider=20 quotes you $2560/month just for the IP space (at $10/IP)?

You probably laugh and go to some other provider or BYOA from a broker.

That works until all the hosting providers are charging similar rates, and even a decade ago I saw providers who would charge you for bringing your own space.

...

=20 That'd be an incentive to look seriously at IPv6.... I *think*.

I hope so, but most likely people will continue to do the lazy thing as = long as they can get away with it.

...

Switching hosting providers will probably become a popular game for=20 the early depletion era, as providers attempt to rob each other of customers. That's probably a losing game in the long run.

Let=E2=80=99s hope (that it=E2=80=99s a losing game).

Just because something is a losing game doesn't mean people won't play that game. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.

I read an article from National Geographic from the early 90s about the conversion for CFCs to HCFC and I think IPv4 will transition similarly. I wish I could find the article on line, but I can't find it at all. It basically credited the speed of the transition (it was faster than most thought) due to CFC scarcity imposed by legislation. CFC used in A/C were known to be terrible for the environment for a number of years, but consumers didn't really demand HCFC equipment and you could always buy CFCs cheaply to repair your appliances. Once it was mandated that HCFCs could only be used on anything new and CFCs could not be produced at the same level, a market was created for reclaiming CFCs from old equipment. The price of CFCs went up for a number of years due to decline supply until there was enough of a uptick in HCFC equipment that eventually the price of CFCs tanked due to low demand. The limited CFC market helped pushed people in adopting HCFCs since the cost of repairing your old CFC A/C unit was very high for a number of years. By the time prices went down no one really cared that much for CFCs anyways. Since we now have a market controlling the allocation of IPv4 addresses we will probably see the fastest uptick in IPv6 adoption yet. The price will go up until it is more reasonable to just go to IPv6 for everything than to figure out how to keep getting blood from the IPv4 stone. There is an upper limit to how much we can all pay for an IP address. Now would be a good time to invest in IPv4 addresses to sell at the high end of the market ;) (Hope I did a decent job explaining, trying to remember the article from a few years ago is hard.) -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Bob Evans Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 3:32 PM To: nanog list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: ARIN Region IPv4 Free Pool Reaches Zero IPv4's works better today than ever before. IP space in North America has now officially turned into a revenue source for networks. Most private enterprise customers understand costs and profits. Business does not understand free stuff in a free market. Hence, IPv4 is no longer free in a block range perspective. To any business with rising employee medical insurance, electricity and office rent rates, an IP address cost is just not on the radar. Just not a large enough cost to make IPv6 look financially attractive. Only when IPv4 address costs begin to exceed that of the hardware and labor conversion costs, will IPv6 gain traction in North America. So for the most part your teenage kids will grow up in an IPv4 world until they are probably 30,something. But, your grand kids will see IPv4 as soooo old. That's all contingent upon all the networks we work on start charging $10 or more per IP address per month. Thank You Bob Evans CTO

Remember, the Internet being fully migrated to IPv6 is just 5 yrs away just like fusion power plants is 20 yrs away (although I think now they are saying 50 yrs away which would make IPv6 12.5 yrs away). (=

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- -ITG (ITechGeek) ITG@ITechGeek.Com https://itg.nu/ GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net

On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:

...

===== The whole reason for the inertia against going to IPv6 is "it ain't broke, so I not gonna 'fix' it."

Now it's broke. =====

^^^^^^^This ^^^^^^^^^^^

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "Stephen Satchell" <list@satchell.net> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 2:38:26 PM Subject: Re: ARIN Region IPv4 Free Pool Reaches Zero

On 09/24/2015 09:49 AM, Dovid Bender wrote:

...

The issue now is convincing clients that they need it. The other issue is many software vendors still don't support it.

And this may trigger a refresh on routers, as people old or refurbed equipment find they need to change. The whole reason for the inertia against going to IPv6 is "it ain't broke, so I not gonna 'fix' it."

Now it's broke.

I think the next requirement for iOS apps: "We ran your app on an IPv6 only network and it did not work. Your submission to the Apple store is therefore denied."

No doubt as an iOS/Apple developer for a hobby, they have been pretty forth coming on dual stack. It’s not totally a requirement yet, but pretty much a BCOP: https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/ios/documentation/NetworkingI... <https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/ios/documentation/NetworkingInternetWeb/Conceptual/NetworkingOverview/UnderstandingandPreparingfortheIPv6Transition/UnderstandingandPreparingfortheIPv6Transition.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010220-CH213-SW11> Sorry if it’s behind a sign-in wall. Sincerely, Eric Tykwinski TrueNet, Inc. P: 610-429-8300 F: 610-429-3222

On Sep 24, 2015, at 6:59 PM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:

...

On Sep 24, 2015, at 6:56 PM, Franck Martin via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:

I think the next requirement for iOS apps: "We ran your app on an IPv6 only network and it did not work. Your submission to the Apple store is therefore denied."

That’s forthcoming.

https://developer.apple.com/videos/wwdc/2015/?id=719

- Jared

On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 16:39:54 -0700, Michael Thomas said:

That will be pretty interesting for anybody who's using aws as their server infrastructure since aws is still v6 useless last i heard.

I wonder if a sudden exodus of customers whose iOS app got axed because it can't contact an aws-hosted server from an IPv6-only network will be enough to get their attention....

Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:

I wonder if a sudden exodus of customers whose iOS app got axed because it can't contact an aws-hosted server from an IPv6-only network will be enough to get their attention....

Maybe they'll just proxy via CloudFlare to AWS. Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch <dot@dotat.at> http://dotat.at/ Viking, North Utsire: Easterly 4 or 5, increasing 6 at times. Slight or moderate, but rough in southwest Viking. Showers later. Good, occasionally poor later.

...

And this may trigger a refresh on routers, as people old or refurbed equipment find they need to change. The whole reason for the inertia against going to IPv6 is "it ain't broke, so I not gonna 'fix' it."

Yea, well, it would be nice if upgrading existing home routers remained legal, so we could, indeed add ipv6 capability and more.

http://prpl.works/2015/09/21/yes-the-fcc-might-ban-your-operating-system/

That's not guaranteed to happen, and, I'd note, it has little-to-nothing to do with existing home 'routers' but rather wifi gear. While many home users do have a combined NAT gateway and wireless access point, the vast majority of them are not running custom firmware and would just buy a new device anyways. Part of the real problem here is that manufacturers have generally treated devices like home 'routers' as abandonware. Usually there is just barely enough RAM and flash on these things to hold whatever firmware the company was intending to ship, and sometimes they would not even see any firmware updates ever made available as the software dev team would move on to the next device. This is the same thing we here on this list should all be pretty scared of as the IoT stormfront comes this way. You're unlikely to be able to add code to handle IPv6 to a Belkin F5D6231, which IIRC used some unusual SoC to provide its modest services on something like 1MB of flash and 2MB RAM (it's been a decade so the particulars may be wrong). Only in the relatively rare cases where a manufacturer left a lot of extra room (WRT54GL, etc) are you likely to have sufficient extra space to do updates to gear. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.