ISP License in the USA?
NANOG: Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.) I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers. I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic. He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar. Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential). I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license. Thanks, Lorell Hathcock
Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide service to schools, libraries and health providers. On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
-- Dan White BTC Broadband
Just to clarify. You don't need a SPIN (e-rate Service Provider Identification Number) to provide service to those entities. You only need a SPIN to qualify for USF/USAC funding for those entities. If they want to pay full price (which some do) you don't need the SPIN. Applying for a SPIN is extremely easy. Applying for e-rate funding, on the other hand, is usually best done via a consultant. Thankfully that's the customer's problem, not yours. Regards, Ray Orsini – CEO Orsini IT, LLC – Technology Consultants VOICE DATA BANDWIDTH SECURITY SUPPORT P: 305.967.6756 x1009 E: ray@orsiniit.com TF: 844.OIT.VOIP 7900 NW 155th Street, Suite 103, Miami Lakes, FL 33016 http://www.orsiniit.com | View My Calendar | View/Pay Your Invoices | View Your Tickets -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dan White Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:25 PM To: Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org> Cc: 'NANOG list' <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: ISP License in the USA? Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide service to schools, libraries and health providers. On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
-- Dan White BTC Broadband
+1 on the SPIN, when we file our e-Rate form 470 and form 471's each year with USAC, we have to provide our carrier's SPIN on these forms. Curtis Starnes Senior Network Administrator Granbury ISD 600 W. Bridge St. Ste. 40 Granbury, Texas 76048 (817) 408-4104 (817) 408-4126 Fax curtis.starnes@granburyisd.org www.granburyisd.org OPEN RECORDS NOTICE: This email and responses may be subject to Texas Open Records laws and may be disclosed to the public upon request. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ray Orsini Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:32 PM To: Dan White <dwhite@olp.net>; Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RE: ISP License in the USA? Just to clarify. You don't need a SPIN (e-rate Service Provider Identification Number) to provide service to those entities. You only need a SPIN to qualify for USF/USAC funding for those entities. If they want to pay full price (which some do) you don't need the SPIN. Applying for a SPIN is extremely easy. Applying for e-rate funding, on the other hand, is usually best done via a consultant. Thankfully that's the customer's problem, not yours. Regards, Ray Orsini – CEO Orsini IT, LLC – Technology Consultants VOICE DATA BANDWIDTH SECURITY SUPPORT P: 305.967.6756 x1009 E: ray@orsiniit.com TF: 844.OIT.VOIP 7900 NW 155th Street, Suite 103, Miami Lakes, FL 33016 http://www.orsiniit.com | View My Calendar | View/Pay Your Invoices | View Your Tickets -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dan White Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:25 PM To: Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org> Cc: 'NANOG list' <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: ISP License in the USA? Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide service to schools, libraries and health providers. On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
-- Dan White BTC Broadband
E-Rate is more of a "discounted" rate process than a license. I work for a mid-sized school district and apply for and are granted E-Rate funding every year. So from the end user stand point not as a transit ISP, E-Rate would not apply. Curtis Starnes Senior Network Administrator Granbury ISD 600 W. Bridge St. Ste. 40 Granbury, Texas 76048 (817) 408-4104 (817) 408-4126 Fax curtis.starnes@granburyisd.org www.granburyisd.org OPEN RECORDS NOTICE: This email and responses may be subject to Texas Open Records laws and may be disclosed to the public upon request. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dan White Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:25 PM To: Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org> Cc: 'NANOG list' <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: ISP License in the USA? Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide service to schools, libraries and health providers. On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
-- Dan White BTC Broadband
There is no such thing as an 'ISP license' in the US. I have a hard time imagining Texas of all places would have such a requirement. Depending on what exactly you are doing, there are various and highly varied requirements, such as acquiring a SPIN number for E-Rate, filing FCC 477 if you do broadband, FCC 499 if you do VoIP (CLEC and ETC also apply there), a FRN if you do pretty much anything FCC-related, various sorts of licenses for most radio/microwave systems (excepting part 15 stuff), CALEA, open internet, etc... COALS _could_ apply _if_ you are running a cable TV system that also delivers data services, but it isn't an 'ISP thing'. More to the point... I wouldn't take US legal advice from any consultant not familiar with US law, or really any non-lawyer consultant at all. I wouldn't take it from NANOG either; while it's a tremendous technical resource, it is not your attorney. There are a number of telecommunications focused law firms out there, with knowledgeable lawyers. It would be a good idea to establish a relationship with one, if you intend to enter the increasingly complex legal minefield of being an ISP. --Eric On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Dan White <dwhite@olp.net> wrote:
Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide service to schools, libraries and health providers.
On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
-- Dan White BTC Broadband
+1 Do not confuse a desire from some party you wish to do business saying, "Our own consultants have said that we shouldn't do business with anyone not compliant with these standards," as a requirement for licensure. Bureaucrats simply like certificates and that's all this really boils down to, a way for consultants and/or politicians to meddle in both ends of what has previously been a pretty open process, creating a solution in search of a problem and adding complexity where it's generally not needed. In fine, the only thing you need in the US to be an ISP is a network. The rest is mostly all about trying to get customers from one section or another of business or of the general public. -Wayne On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:54:38AM -0700, Eric Flanery (eric) wrote:
There is no such thing as an 'ISP license' in the US. I have a hard time imagining Texas of all places would have such a requirement.
Depending on what exactly you are doing, there are various and highly varied requirements, such as acquiring a SPIN number for E-Rate, filing FCC 477 if you do broadband, FCC 499 if you do VoIP (CLEC and ETC also apply there), a FRN if you do pretty much anything FCC-related, various sorts of licenses for most radio/microwave systems (excepting part 15 stuff), CALEA, open internet, etc...
COALS _could_ apply _if_ you are running a cable TV system that also delivers data services, but it isn't an 'ISP thing'.
More to the point...
I wouldn't take US legal advice from any consultant not familiar with US law, or really any non-lawyer consultant at all. I wouldn't take it from NANOG either; while it's a tremendous technical resource, it is not your attorney.
There are a number of telecommunications focused law firms out there, with knowledgeable lawyers. It would be a good idea to establish a relationship with one, if you intend to enter the increasingly complex legal minefield of being an ISP.
--Eric
On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Dan White <dwhite@olp.net> wrote:
Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide service to schools, libraries and health providers.
On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
-- Dan White BTC Broadband
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Would you mind sharing some of the telecommunications focused law firms? I am about to start a company that is going back into the CLEC/ISP/VoIP Business and I am going to have to establish relationships with a few law firms. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Eric Flanery (eric) Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:55 PM Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: ISP License in the USA? There is no such thing as an 'ISP license' in the US. I have a hard time imagining Texas of all places would have such a requirement. Depending on what exactly you are doing, there are various and highly varied requirements, such as acquiring a SPIN number for E-Rate, filing FCC 477 if you do broadband, FCC 499 if you do VoIP (CLEC and ETC also apply there), a FRN if you do pretty much anything FCC-related, various sorts of licenses for most radio/microwave systems (excepting part 15 stuff), CALEA, open internet, etc... COALS _could_ apply _if_ you are running a cable TV system that also delivers data services, but it isn't an 'ISP thing'. More to the point... I wouldn't take US legal advice from any consultant not familiar with US law, or really any non-lawyer consultant at all. I wouldn't take it from NANOG either; while it's a tremendous technical resource, it is not your attorney. There are a number of telecommunications focused law firms out there, with knowledgeable lawyers. It would be a good idea to establish a relationship with one, if you intend to enter the increasingly complex legal minefield of being an ISP. --Eric On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Dan White <dwhite@olp.net> wrote:
Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide service to schools, libraries and health providers.
On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
-- Dan White BTC Broadband
A couple of places to start: Baller Stokes & Lide, P.C. (www.baller.com) http://www.bbklaw.com (which absorbed Miller & Van Eaton a few years back) They both have practices that focus on telecom from a municipal point of view (municipal broadband, right-of-way issues, cable franchises, and such) - which is how I know them - but may be able to help or point you in the right direction. Miles Fidelman On 6/5/16 12:31 PM, Ryan Finnesey wrote:
Would you mind sharing some of the telecommunications focused law firms? I am about to start a company that is going back into the CLEC/ISP/VoIP Business and I am going to have to establish relationships with a few law firms.
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Eric Flanery (eric) Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:55 PM Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: ISP License in the USA?
There is no such thing as an 'ISP license' in the US. I have a hard time imagining Texas of all places would have such a requirement.
Depending on what exactly you are doing, there are various and highly varied requirements, such as acquiring a SPIN number for E-Rate, filing FCC 477 if you do broadband, FCC 499 if you do VoIP (CLEC and ETC also apply there), a FRN if you do pretty much anything FCC-related, various sorts of licenses for most radio/microwave systems (excepting part 15 stuff), CALEA, open internet, etc...
COALS _could_ apply _if_ you are running a cable TV system that also delivers data services, but it isn't an 'ISP thing'.
More to the point...
I wouldn't take US legal advice from any consultant not familiar with US law, or really any non-lawyer consultant at all. I wouldn't take it from NANOG either; while it's a tremendous technical resource, it is not your attorney.
There are a number of telecommunications focused law firms out there, with knowledgeable lawyers. It would be a good idea to establish a relationship with one, if you intend to enter the increasingly complex legal minefield of being an ISP.
--Eric
On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Dan White <dwhite@olp.net> wrote:
Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide service to schools, libraries and health providers.
On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
-- Dan White BTC Broadband
-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
http://www.commlawgroup.com/#hashslider1 or Kris Tomey 's Info:-
Law Office 1725 I Street, NW, Suite 300 Washington, DC 20006
Phone: 202.250.3413 Fax: 202.517.9175 kris@lokt.net
LoKT Consulting 1425 Leimert Blvd., Suite 404 Oakland, CA 94602
Phone: 510.285.8010 Fax: 510.868.8418 kris@lokt.net
or Stephen E. Coran Lerman Senter, PLLC 2000 K Street, N.W., Suite 600 Washington, D.C. 20006-1809 (202) 416-6744 - office (202) 669-3288 -mobile scoran@lermansenter.com Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Finnesey" <ryan@finnesey.com> To: "Eric Flanery (eric)" <eric@flanery.us> Cc: "nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:31:56 PM Subject: RE: ISP License in the USA?
Would you mind sharing some of the telecommunications focused law firms? I am about to start a company that is going back into the CLEC/ISP/VoIP Business and I am going to have to establish relationships with a few law firms.
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Eric Flanery (eric) Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:55 PM Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: ISP License in the USA?
There is no such thing as an 'ISP license' in the US. I have a hard time imagining Texas of all places would have such a requirement.
Depending on what exactly you are doing, there are various and highly varied requirements, such as acquiring a SPIN number for E-Rate, filing FCC 477 if you do broadband, FCC 499 if you do VoIP (CLEC and ETC also apply there), a FRN if you do pretty much anything FCC-related, various sorts of licenses for most radio/microwave systems (excepting part 15 stuff), CALEA, open internet, etc...
COALS _could_ apply _if_ you are running a cable TV system that also delivers data services, but it isn't an 'ISP thing'.
More to the point...
I wouldn't take US legal advice from any consultant not familiar with US law, or really any non-lawyer consultant at all. I wouldn't take it from NANOG either; while it's a tremendous technical resource, it is not your attorney.
There are a number of telecommunications focused law firms out there, with knowledgeable lawyers. It would be a good idea to establish a relationship with one, if you intend to enter the increasingly complex legal minefield of being an ISP.
--Eric
On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Dan White <dwhite@olp.net> wrote:
Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide service to schools, libraries and health providers.
On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
-- Dan White BTC Broadband
On Jun 5, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Ryan Finnesey <ryan@finnesey.com> wrote:
Would you mind sharing some of the telecommunications focused law firms? I am about to start a company that is going back into the CLEC/ISP/VoIP Business and I am going to have to establish relationships with a few law firms.
I highly recommend McCollough Henry, PC in Austin, Texas. http://www.mccolloughhenry.com 1250 South Capital of Texas Highway Building 3, Suite 400 Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 782-2086 —Chris
These are the two I'm most familiar with: Lerman Senter, as Faisal mentioned: http://www.lermansenter.com/ Rini O'Neil: http://rinioneil.com/ --Eric
He is suggesting COALS .........
as in lumps of coals, is what you are going to get on christmas from him, if he does not get this gig ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom ----- Original Message -----
From: "Lorell Hathcock" <lorell@hathcock.org> To: "nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:14:17 PM Subject: ISP License in the USA?
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
Thanks,
Lorell Hathcock
I would suggest getting a new consultant .. :) Possible Acronyms College of Arts and Letters (Missouri State University; Springfield, MO) Cartridge Overall Length (shooting) Client Object Access Layer Circle of Acro Lovers Columbus Ohio Area Local Consolidated Operational Activities List Customer Order Acceptance List Common Operational Activities List (US Navy) Chance of a Lifetime (raffle) Lol got me! There is nothing that I know of that you have to "license" to become a ISP in the US of A. . You do have to fill out Form 477 twice a year. :) www.linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 x103 - dmburgess@linktechs.net -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Lorell Hathcock Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:14 PM To: 'NANOG list' <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: ISP License in the USA? NANOG: Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.) I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers. I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic. He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar. Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential). I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license. Thanks, Lorell Hathcock
Local Business License. Dustin -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:53 PM To: North American Network Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RE: ISP License in the USA? I would suggest getting a new consultant .. :) Possible Acronyms College of Arts and Letters (Missouri State University; Springfield, MO) Cartridge Overall Length (shooting) Client Object Access Layer Circle of Acro Lovers Columbus Ohio Area Local Consolidated Operational Activities List Customer Order Acceptance List Common Operational Activities List (US Navy) Chance of a Lifetime (raffle) Lol got me! There is nothing that I know of that you have to "license" to become a ISP in the US of A. . You do have to fill out Form 477 twice a year. :) www.linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 x103 - dmburgess@linktechs.net -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Lorell Hathcock Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:14 PM To: 'NANOG list' <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: ISP License in the USA? NANOG: Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.) I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers. I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic. He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar. Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential). I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license. Thanks, Lorell Hathcock
Well, now you're talking tax ID or, rather, a general license to operate a commercial enterprise, not a specific license related to ISPs. On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 07:05:29PM +0000, Dustin Jurman wrote:
Local Business License.
Dustin
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:53 PM To: North American Network Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RE: ISP License in the USA?
I would suggest getting a new consultant .. :)
Possible Acronyms
College of Arts and Letters (Missouri State University; Springfield, MO) Cartridge Overall Length (shooting) Client Object Access Layer Circle of Acro Lovers Columbus Ohio Area Local Consolidated Operational Activities List Customer Order Acceptance List Common Operational Activities List (US Navy) Chance of a Lifetime (raffle)
Lol got me! There is nothing that I know of that you have to "license" to become a ISP in the US of A. . You do have to fill out Form 477 twice a year. :)
www.linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 x103 - dmburgess@linktechs.net
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Lorell Hathcock Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:14 PM To: 'NANOG list' <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: ISP License in the USA?
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
Thanks,
Lorell Hathcock
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
I've got it! Send $25,000 and I will print you a shiny new license to hang on the wall! Curtis Starnes Senior Network Administrator Granbury ISD 600 W. Bridge St. Ste. 40 Granbury, Texas 76048 (817) 408-4104 (817) 408-4126 Fax curtis.starnes@granburyisd.org www.granburyisd.org OPEN RECORDS NOTICE: This email and responses may be subject to Texas Open Records laws and may be disclosed to the public upon request. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Bouchard Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:15 PM To: Dustin Jurman <dustin@rseng.net> Cc: North American Network Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: ISP License in the USA? Well, now you're talking tax ID or, rather, a general license to operate a commercial enterprise, not a specific license related to ISPs. On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 07:05:29PM +0000, Dustin Jurman wrote:
Local Business License.
Dustin
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:53 PM To: North American Network Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RE: ISP License in the USA?
I would suggest getting a new consultant .. :)
Possible Acronyms
College of Arts and Letters (Missouri State University; Springfield, MO) Cartridge Overall Length (shooting) Client Object Access Layer Circle of Acro Lovers Columbus Ohio Area Local Consolidated Operational Activities List Customer Order Acceptance List Common Operational Activities List (US Navy) Chance of a Lifetime (raffle)
Lol got me! There is nothing that I know of that you have to "license" to become a ISP in the US of A. . You do have to fill out Form 477 twice a year. :)
www.linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 x103 - dmburgess@linktechs.net
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Lorell Hathcock Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:14 PM To: 'NANOG list' <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: ISP License in the USA?
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
Thanks,
Lorell Hathcock
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
On 5/31/16 2:53 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
I would suggest getting a new consultant .. :)
What Dennis said.
Lol got me! There is nothing that I know of that you have to "license" to become a ISP in the US of A. . You do have to fill out Form 477 twice a year. :)
But only if you provide: - facilities-based broadband services, and/or, - provide wired or fixed wireless local exchange telephone service - provide interconnected VoIP service - provide facilities based wireless telephony (see https://transition.fcc.gov/form477/WhoMustFileForm477.pdf) If you provide basic dial-up services, or wireless Internet over unlicensed channels - there's no licensing requirement whatever. As Dennis said - first get a new consultant. Look for one who can work through your service model - what you're going to be selling, to whom, using what technology(ies) - and work from there to whatever licenses (if any) that you require. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
Maybe the consultant is confusing "licensing" with IP address allocations from ARIN. Curtis Starnes Senior Network Administrator Granbury ISD 600 W. Bridge St. Ste. 40 Granbury, Texas 76048 (817) 408-4104 (817) 408-4126 Fax curtis.starnes@granburyisd.org www.granburyisd.org OPEN RECORDS NOTICE: This email and responses may be subject to Texas Open Records laws and may be disclosed to the public upon request. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Miles Fidelman Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:06 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: ISP License in the USA? On 5/31/16 2:53 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
I would suggest getting a new consultant .. :)
What Dennis said.
Lol got me! There is nothing that I know of that you have to "license" to become a ISP in the US of A. . You do have to fill out Form 477 twice a year. :)
But only if you provide: - facilities-based broadband services, and/or, - provide wired or fixed wireless local exchange telephone service - provide interconnected VoIP service - provide facilities based wireless telephony (see https://transition.fcc.gov/form477/WhoMustFileForm477.pdf) If you provide basic dial-up services, or wireless Internet over unlicensed channels - there's no licensing requirement whatever. As Dennis said - first get a new consultant. Look for one who can work through your service model - what you're going to be selling, to whom, using what technology(ies) - and work from there to whatever licenses (if any) that you require. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
On May 31, 2016, at 12:05 , Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> wrote:
On 5/31/16 2:53 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
I would suggest getting a new consultant .. :)
What Dennis said.
Lol got me! There is nothing that I know of that you have to "license" to become a ISP in the US of A. . You do have to fill out Form 477 twice a year. :)
But only if you provide: - facilities-based broadband services, and/or, - provide wired or fixed wireless local exchange telephone service - provide interconnected VoIP service - provide facilities based wireless telephony (see https://transition.fcc.gov/form477/WhoMustFileForm477.pdf)
If you provide basic dial-up services, or wireless Internet over unlicensed channels - there's no licensing requirement whatever.
This also applies if you are applying over unbundled elements or other leased facilities AIUI. Owen
He might have meant one of these: Consultants Often Adlib License Specifications
Not necessarily… If you aren’t a facilities-based carrier: https://transition.fcc.gov/form477/WhoMustFileForm477.pdf You don’t need to. Owen
On May 31, 2016, at 11:53 , Dennis Burgess <dmburgess@linktechs.net> wrote:
I would suggest getting a new consultant .. :)
Possible Acronyms
College of Arts and Letters (Missouri State University; Springfield, MO) Cartridge Overall Length (shooting) Client Object Access Layer Circle of Acro Lovers Columbus Ohio Area Local Consolidated Operational Activities List Customer Order Acceptance List Common Operational Activities List (US Navy) Chance of a Lifetime (raffle)
Lol got me! There is nothing that I know of that you have to "license" to become a ISP in the US of A. . You do have to fill out Form 477 twice a year. :)
www.linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 x103 - dmburgess@linktechs.net
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Lorell Hathcock Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:14 PM To: 'NANOG list' <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: ISP License in the USA?
NANOG:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers.
I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
Thanks,
Lorell Hathcock
On Tue, 31 May 2016, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers. I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
As always, you should consult with your company's attorney or legal advisor. ISP's do not have a seperate license in the USA (besides normal business and tax licenses). COALS refers to cable operators and multichannel video programming distributors. CLEC refers to competitive local exchange carriers (i.e. telephone and private line circuits). Wireless ISPs may need a FCC radio frequency license for high power or exclusive use of radio frequencies. Low-powered Wi-Fi doesn't need a license. Generally you need some kind of permission or license to install facilities in a public right of way or exclusive use of public airwaves. ISPs can lease those facilities from licensed operators, and don't need a license themselves. In practice, most cable operators and telephone companies are also "self-provisioned" ISPs. They have "license" from a state and/or FCC; but that's because they are cable or telephone companies installing telecommunication facilities in public rights of way, not because they are ISPs.
What you have been hearing so far is correct. You do not need a license to be an ISP other than normal business licenses in your municipality/state. The only thing I can think of would be if you were a voice carrier or wanted to become a CLEC which would give you better/cheaper access to local infrastructure via interconnection agreements (like local loops for DSL and duct/conduit access for building out your own fiber network). I can tell you that the CLEC route is pretty expensive and has quite extensive regulatory hurdles at both the state and federal level. If you are a pure data ISP (i.e. not originating voice services) running on leased access circuits there is not much more you should need to do. Of course, you could and should ask this same question of your state's communications commission if you need a legally sound opinion on this. Steven Naslund Chicago IL -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Sean Donelan Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:55 PM To: Lorell Hathcock Cc: 'NANOG list' Subject: Re: ISP License in the USA? On Tue, 31 May 2016, Lorell Hathcock wrote:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end customers. I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a requirement to pass traffic.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial and/or residential).
I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license.
As always, you should consult with your company's attorney or legal advisor. ISP's do not have a seperate license in the USA (besides normal business and tax licenses). COALS refers to cable operators and multichannel video programming distributors. CLEC refers to competitive local exchange carriers (i.e. telephone and private line circuits). Wireless ISPs may need a FCC radio frequency license for high power or exclusive use of radio frequencies. Low-powered Wi-Fi doesn't need a license. Generally you need some kind of permission or license to install facilities in a public right of way or exclusive use of public airwaves. ISPs can lease those facilities from licensed operators, and don't need a license themselves. In practice, most cable operators and telephone companies are also "self-provisioned" ISPs. They have "license" from a state and/or FCC; but that's because they are cable or telephone companies installing telecommunication facilities in public rights of way, not because they are ISPs.
On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org> wrote:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
Howdy, There is generally no license required to be an ISP. If you wish to own physical infrastructure located in the public right of ways or use licensed radio frequencies, there are various licensing and regulatory requirements. We call those "cable companies," "telcos," "LECs," or "CLECs" even if they also provide ISP service. If you lease your long-haul cabling infrastructure (from folks who are licensed) or implement physical infrastructure only on property you own or lease, you need not address licensing yourself.
He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar.
https://apps.fcc.gov/coals/ That's if you want to be a cable TV operator (plus Internet). Unless you're planning to run your own coax on the telephone poles, you don't need that. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
On May 31, 2016, at 4:16 PM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org> wrote:
Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.)
Howdy,
There is generally no license required to be an ISP.
If you wish to own physical infrastructure located in the public right of ways or use licensed radio frequencies, there are various licensing and regulatory requirements.
We call those "cable companies," "telcos," "LECs," or "CLECs" even if they also provide ISP service.
If you lease your long-haul cabling infrastructure (from folks who are licensed) or implement physical infrastructure only on property you own or lease, you need not address licensing yourself.
In some cases it’s very simple to do something, in Michigan (for example) you can run fiber and place items in the right of way by meeting the standards of a Metro Permit, eg: http://www.michigan.gov/lcsa/0,5798,7-333-23730-221070--,00.html For most places, you just need to pay the state or local licensing fees. You can generally do this for low cost, setting up a new C-corp or LLC is $50 to file in my area. Well worth it if you just want to establish yourself as a legal entity. Then you can do business with that and usual minimal paperwork. You can pay hundreds to nearly infinite money to establish your structure(s). You do need to have some sort of TIN or EIN. This gets complex and imposes requirements, consult an accountant, CPA or lawyer as well in this area. It shouldn’t be more than $1k to establish the legal entity unless there are very complex situations involved. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/apply-for-an-e... Unless you are offering certain regulated services, the bar is quite low to establish a company and maintain yourself. I’d say when possible avoid complex programs, they tend to come with high reporting and auditing costs. - Jared
participants (18)
-
Chris Boyd -
Dan White -
Dennis Burgess -
Dustin Jurman -
Eric Flanery (eric) -
Faisal Imtiaz -
Jared Mauch -
Jon Sands -
Lorell Hathcock -
Miles Fidelman -
Naslund, Steve -
Owen DeLong -
Ray Orsini -
Ryan Finnesey -
Sean Donelan -
STARNES, CURTIS -
Wayne Bouchard -
William Herrin