Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-be... Roderick Beck Director of Global Sales United Cable Company DRG Undersea Consulting Affiliate Member www.unitedcablecompany.com<http://www.unitedcablecompany.com> 85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com 36-30-859-5144 [1467221477350_image005.png]
Never really heard a lot about it …. We never lost connectivity to Halifax from Montreal via Hibernia - interesting topic though as we have a backup path that I’m looking to replace :) Paul
On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-be...
Roderick Beck
Director of Global Sales
United Cable Company
DRG Undersea Consulting
Affiliate Member
www.unitedcablecompany.com<http://www.unitedcablecompany.com>
85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest
rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com
36-30-859-5144
[1467221477350_image005.png]
My understanding is that the Bell Aliant outage was a double fault situation. Bell Aliant had a fiber cut on one of their fiber routes early in the morning and then they had a fault on the diverse fiber route before the first trouble could be repaired. On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 11:22 AM, Rod Beck wrote:
Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
In other words, bad luck. Probability dictates if enough time transpires, every bad thing will happen. 😝 ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Clinton Work <clinton@scripty.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:59 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut My understanding is that the Bell Aliant outage was a double fault situation. Bell Aliant had a fiber cut on one of their fiber routes early in the morning and then they had a fault on the diverse fiber route before the first trouble could be repaired. On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 11:22 AM, Rod Beck wrote:
Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-be...
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems. - Jared
It wasn’t an issue getting transatlantic - it was an issue within a relatively small region in Eastern Canada talking to the rest of the world for certain carriers. There were several smaller carriers/providers not affected - just happens the local incumbent telco and one of their larger competitors got knocked out …
On Aug 15, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-be...
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
- Jared
Let’s not forget that all POTS and cell service was offline during the outage - even for local and 911 service. There is some high level of dependence on some equipment in Quebec and/or westward which should not be there. A double fault like that should not knock out all local service for 4 out of 10 provinces. I would expect that an architectural review is under way. On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 16:14 Paul Stewart <paul@paulstewart.org> wrote:
It wasn’t an issue getting transatlantic - it was an issue within a relatively small region in Eastern Canada talking to the rest of the world for certain carriers. There were several smaller carriers/providers not affected - just happens the local incumbent telco and one of their larger competitors got knocked out …
On Aug 15, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-be...
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
- Jared
Yeah good point Chris …. Got thinking about this too much from an IP perspective :)
On Aug 16, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Christopher Morrell <christopher.morrell.nanog@gmail.com> wrote:
Let’s not forget that all POTS and cell service was offline during the outage - even for local and 911 service.
There is some high level of dependence on some equipment in Quebec and/or westward which should not be there.
A double fault like that should not knock out all local service for 4 out of 10 provinces. I would expect that an architectural review is under way.
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 16:14 Paul Stewart <paul@paulstewart.org <mailto:paul@paulstewart.org>> wrote: It wasn’t an issue getting transatlantic - it was an issue within a relatively small region in Eastern Canada talking to the rest of the world for certain carriers. There were several smaller carriers/providers not affected - just happens the local incumbent telco and one of their larger competitors got knocked out …
On Aug 15, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net <mailto:jared@puck.nether.net>> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com <mailto:rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com>> wrote:
Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-be... <http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-bell-outage-1.4239064>
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
- Jared
On 2017-08-16 18:29, Christopher Morrell wrote:
Let’s not forget that all POTS and cell service was offline during the outage - even for local and 911 service.
It would be interesting to know how incumbent telco services within Aliant territory became dependent on a link to central Canada. Whenh on dials 911 in Moncton, does it require some database inquiry to some database in Toronto, failing which, the call can't go through? (Aliant, which used to be separate maritime telcos was bought lock stock and barrel by Bell Canada a couple years ago, so likely rationlized some services to save costs, so anything that became dependent on some Toronto server would stop working) The CRTC asked Bell for a report on what happened, but told media that report may not be made public.
I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is the diverse route. On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
Well Hibernia had those routes. I thought it would have been the 360 terrestrial cable and Hibernia's underwater cable from Halifax to their Boston landing station. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Clinton Work <clinton@scripty.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:07 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is the diverse route. On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
Interesting enough, we did not lose connectivity to our offices in PEI, so I assume there is some diversity from that point in the Bell network. J~
On 15, Aug 2017, at 3:37 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Well Hibernia had those routes. I thought it would have been the 360 terrestrial cable and Hibernia's underwater cable from Halifax to their Boston landing station.
________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Clinton Work <clinton@scripty.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:07 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut
I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is the diverse route.
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
Just read this on http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/bell-aliant-says- double-cable-cut-that-led-to-cell-outages-was-perfect-storm-1.3547018 "Bell spokesman Nathan Gibson says the first cut was by a highway construction crew near Drummondville, Que. He says service wasn't impacted in any significant way because of redundancy in the network until a second major cut near Richibucto, N.B., by a logging company in a densely forested location. He says the second cut was difficult to access and took some time to locate precisely, and the site's inaccessibility slowed the arrival of heavy equipment and repair crews." On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 6:04 PM, JASON BOTHE <jbothe@me.com> wrote:
Interesting enough, we did not lose connectivity to our offices in PEI, so I assume there is some diversity from that point in the Bell network.
J~
On 15, Aug 2017, at 3:37 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Well Hibernia had those routes. I thought it would have been the 360 terrestrial cable and Hibernia's underwater cable from Halifax to their Boston landing station.
________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Clinton Work < clinton@scripty.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:07 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut
I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is the diverse route.
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
Does this sound like a dry run to anyone else? Or did I forget to take my anti-paranoia pills today? On 08/15/2017 06:05 PM, David Charlebois wrote:
Just read this on http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/bell-aliant-says- double-cable-cut-that-led-to-cell-outages-was-perfect-storm-1.3547018
"Bell spokesman Nathan Gibson says the first cut was by a highway construction crew near Drummondville, Que.
He says service wasn't impacted in any significant way because of redundancy in the network until a second major cut near Richibucto, N.B., by a logging company in a densely forested location.
He says the second cut was difficult to access and took some time to locate precisely, and the site's inaccessibility slowed the arrival of heavy equipment and repair crews."
There is a third route from Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Portland, ME -> [Albany, Boston] On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Clinton Work <clinton@scripty.com> wrote:
I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is the diverse route.
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
-- Fletcher Kittredge GWI 207-602-1134 www.gwi.net
Unless I am mistaken, that is an old legacy route. I don't think it is a new build. I know at one time Hibernia was selling its undersea link from Halifax to Boston as a back up for that route. On the other hand, there have been some Canadian carrier builds recently so may be it's not legacy. Regards, Roderick ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Fletcher Kittredge <fkittred@gwi.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:29 PM To: Clinton Work Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut There is a third route from Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Portland, ME -> [Albany, Boston] On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Clinton Work <clinton@scripty.com> wrote:
I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is the diverse route.
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
-- Fletcher Kittredge GWI 207-602-1134 www.gwi.net<http://www.gwi.net> GWI: Phone and High Speed Internet services for your Maine ...<http://www.gwi.net/> www.gwi.net GWI Home and Business Phone and High Speed Internet services in Maine. Business Wide Area Networks, Hosted PBX, cloud computing and data center services.
On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Unless I am mistaken, that is an old legacy route. I don't think it is a new build. I know at one time Hibernia was selling its undersea link from Halifax to Boston as a back up for that route. On the other hand, there have been some Canadian carrier builds recently so may be it's not legacy.
No, this is not a legacy route. It was a new route constructed in 2012 as part of the Federal BTOP ARRA program. It is a 1,100 mile high strand count fiber ring around Maine with multiple border crossings. Dozens of carriers are using it. -- Fletcher Kittredge GWI
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns -about-backup-bell-outage-1.4239064
Perhaps some transatlantic fallback? It looks like the only cable out there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive? It only gets you to Iceland it seems.
For background on the Greenland Connect cable, the UKNOF presentation I presented (built by Heller, Harland, and I) in 2009 is here at http://bit.ly/GrConnect - You can get past Iceland for sure. Just not for free. (Honorable mentions in all of this for AMS-IX, LINX, Nick Hilliard, Andy Davidson and Will Hargrave. Remco van Mook got the Golden Jökulhlaup for his part). The route was cost prohibitive as you guessed. There was reach-ability from the EU to CA via RVK and GOH, The built paths were CPH-RVK-GOH-YHZ and LON-RVK-GOH-YHZ. While the GOH route were most prohibitive, the RVK paths less so. It was much cheaper to route LON to LGA via Hibernia. I like it as a back up path. So did a few banks. But cost. Do I think this is a viable path? Yes. Will it ever come down in cost? I'd go back to try this again. Maybe things have changed? Best, -M<
participants (11)
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Christopher Morrell -
Clinton Work -
David Charlebois -
Doug Barton -
Fletcher Kittredge -
Jared Mauch -
JASON BOTHE -
Jean-Francois Mezei -
Martin Hannigan -
Paul Stewart -
Rod Beck