Was the date/place of the next NANOG announced in Atlanta? Pete.
TBA - which from what I heard means there's a probable but not firm yet... joelja On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Pete Kruckenberg wrote:
Was the date/place of the next NANOG announced in Atlanta?
Pete.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
Vegas would be nice :) On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
TBA - which from what I heard means there's a probable but not firm yet...
joelja
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Pete Kruckenberg wrote:
Was the date/place of the next NANOG announced in Atlanta?
Pete.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Rodney Caston wrote:
Vegas would be nice :)
which allow Nanog to allow more people to go. Has there been talk about allowing more then 500 to attend?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
TBA - which from what I heard means there's a probable but not firm yet...
joelja
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Pete Kruckenberg wrote:
Was the date/place of the next NANOG announced in Atlanta?
Pete.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Rodney Caston wrote:
Vegas would be nice :)
which allow Nanog to allow more people to go. Has there been talk about allowing more then 500 to attend?
That brings up an interesting question. Is it desirable to have a larger group? I don't have a simple answer to this, but it's harder and harder to get good interaction with a large group. Not sure if this is a problem just with my aging hearing and vision, but it's often hard for me to make out all the presentations unless I get front-row seating. Unfortunately, there was no wired front row seating. /* begin some sort of mode it would be FAR easier to understand, even with large rooms, if people would: use adequately large type on slides know that graphs to be seen from a distance can't be too busy SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE IN A CLEAR VOICE */ end crotchet mode. With a larger group, there's more of a drive for parallel sessions and all of the attendant logistics. Even with parallel sessions, there are limitations...many of the more popular IETF groups get far too large for meaningful interaction. IDR is still within bounds, but MPLS long ago passed the useful-meeting level. Even if you have read all the drafts and qualify for the first couple of rows, without using some NFL blockers, skipping conversation at the breaks, and quite possibly getting there early, the seats fill up.
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
TBA - which from what I heard means there's a probable but not firm yet...
joelja
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Pete Kruckenberg wrote:
Was the date/place of the next NANOG announced in Atlanta?
Pete.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli
joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu
Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 06:28:51PM -0500, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Rodney Caston wrote:
Vegas would be nice :)
which allow Nanog to allow more people to go. Has there been talk about allowing more then 500 to attend?
That brings up an interesting question. Is it desirable to have a larger group? I don't have a simple answer to this, but it's harder and harder to get good interaction with a large group.
Not sure if this is a problem just with my aging hearing and vision, but it's often hard for me to make out all the presentations unless I get front-row seating. Unfortunately, there was no wired front row seating.
/* begin some sort of mode
it would be FAR easier to understand, even with large rooms, if people would:
use adequately large type on slides know that graphs to be seen from a distance can't be too busy SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE IN A CLEAR VOICE
*/ end crotchet mode.
With a larger group, there's more of a drive for parallel sessions and all of the attendant logistics. Even with parallel sessions, there are limitations...many of the more popular IETF groups get far too large for meaningful interaction. IDR is still within bounds, but MPLS long ago passed the useful-meeting level. Even if you have read all the drafts and qualify for the first couple of rows, without using some NFL blockers, skipping conversation at the breaks, and quite possibly getting there early, the seats fill up.
Well, we run into a problem there... NANOG meetings have, as much as informative, been kind of a social event for those attending and I think that this has become a very large reason many people come. With a large group, that somewhat tends to go away. Then there are the logistical problems. You saw how crowded the convention rooms were. There were still some empty seats but those don't have tables for your laptops. If the meetings grow much larger than about 750, they start to rememble a short-lived convention than a technical conference. Not to mention the fact that most of them could no longer be held in a hotel. (There wouldn't be room.) If we started having multiple tracks and expanded the size to, say, 850 or 1000, then to have these things at hotels (for convenience) we would have to have two hotels side by side (one track in one and one in the other) to be able to have a large enough room so there would be enough seats for everyone (I don't know of too many hotels who have two sets of rooms the size we were in in Atlanta) and even then, if one track were way more popular than another, not everyone would be able to attend. The next answer for space is an arm of a convention center. And frankly, thats just not what I want to see happen to this thing. My only suggestion for future NANOG meetings is that , perhaps, there might be more vendors participating in the beer 'n gear portion of the meeting. I'm sure there are those with smaller devices (ie, not something that takes up 4 racks) or peripheral devices (eg, network sniffers, circuit analyzers, and such) who would be willing to ship some demonstration sets out for a 3 hour demonstration. And as for location, the one NANOG that was held in Phoenix seemed to go off really well. (Of course, that was in October when temperatures were more reasonable.) Then again, I'm biased. :-) I would be in favor of Vegas.. its a reasonably convenient place with good airport access. Of course, I think this is as much up to the sponsor (if any has been found) as anyone. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wayne Bouchard [Imagine Your ] web@typo.org [Company Name Here] Network Engineer http://www.typo.org/~web/resume.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------
That brings up an interesting question. Is it desirable to have a larger group? I don't have a simple answer to this, but it's harder and harder to get good interaction with a large group.
It's already hard-- anyone nervous of mikes (yeah there are a few in this crowd) or just sitting far enough away from the aisles doesn't speak up. More people makes both problems worse.
Well, we run into a problem there... NANOG meetings have, as much as informative, been kind of a social event for those attending and I think that this has become a very large reason many people come. With a large group, that somewhat tends to go away.
Actually, what happens in large groups is that they splinter. You still see your friends, but it's harder to meet new people outside your company or your special area of interest. This is certainly an issue for IETF for example, and seemed to be a factor at the one or two big USENIX events I've been to.
The next answer for space is an arm of a convention center. And frankly, thats just not what I want to see happen to this thing.
Probably not, although small convention centers aren't necessarily more hassle or less friendly than big hotels. Lack of a bar would be a big problem though :). IETF in Pittsburgh last summer and other similar venues-- convention center for meeting space, attached hotel for bars and wireless-enabled common areas-- seemed to work OK.
I would be in favor of Vegas.. its a reasonably convenient place with good airport access. Of course, I think this is as much up to the sponsor (if any has been found) as anyone.
How about New Orleans? No, wait, not in the summertime.... It's an oft-overlooked attribute of the location problem that a willing sponsor is absolutely required and can be hard to find. The expense and the hassle factor are not trivial, although to some degree they can be traded off against each other, and the logistical requirements (transit bandwidth, wireless coverage, a/v) have been growing faster than the head count. Anyone who wants to dump on either Merit or local hosts about logistics should probably start their comments by volunteering to host themselves....or even just show up early and provide help. Kids, do *not* try this at home, at least not without plenty of bodies, patience, gear, and Tums.
connectivity was "interesting" there. you need some ds-3 microwave gear and roof access on a tall building downtown (not sure which one qualcom used) joelja On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Randy Bush wrote:
I am all for San Diego. The same hotel as the IETF would work fine for me.
this was an offer to host?
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
I wish I could Randy. Ask me in two more years. Bora
From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:04:04 -0800 To: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> Cc: <nanog@merit.org> Subject: Re: Next NANOG
I am all for San Diego. The same hotel as the IETF would work fine for me.
this was an offer to host?
If I could get a straight answer on out-of-pocket costs involved, NAC may be interested in hosting one in NYC/NJ. On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Bora Akyol wrote:
I wish I could Randy.
Ask me in two more years.
Bora
From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:04:04 -0800 To: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> Cc: <nanog@merit.org> Subject: Re: Next NANOG
I am all for San Diego. The same hotel as the IETF would work fine for me.
this was an offer to host?
Alex - We did the one in Eugene for under 10k, but we're a University with lots of personnel in place - and student bodies to throw at the thing. Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs - Everyones starting resource base is different, so take this with a grain of salt - My notes from our event can be found here: http://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/hosting.html http://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/nanog16.html This was a great event for the UO - and a LOT of work, as I'm sure any of the other recent hosts could tell you. Lucy E. Lynch Academic User Services Computing Center University of Oregon llynch@darkwing.uoregon.edu (541) 346-1774 Cell: (541) 912-7998 5419127998@mobile.att.net On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
If I could get a straight answer on out-of-pocket costs involved, NAC may be interested in hosting one in NYC/NJ.
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Bora Akyol wrote:
I wish I could Randy.
Ask me in two more years.
Bora
From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:04:04 -0800 To: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> Cc: <nanog@merit.org> Subject: Re: Next NANOG
I am all for San Diego. The same hotel as the IETF would work fine for me.
this was an offer to host?
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost? (assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit, doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room). Joe
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof... I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room).
Joe
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
I'd rather see NANOG/MERIT invest in like 15 or 20 base stations, rather than wasting the time/money on the cat5 cable and switches -- etc. A wireless card costs all of $200 these days... everyone could just get one. On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof...
I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room).
Joe
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
Merit actually has enough access points (it really only takes 4-6 of them... it's more of a user mindshare issue... hence the continuing availability of laptop drops... note however that there are fewer at the recent meeting (ie. we had almost 300 for one room at nanog 17). the cisco folks used about 24 access points(overkill) for the ietf in sandiego that was enough to blanket the conference center and the hotel below the 3rd floor... joelja On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex wrote:
I'd rather see NANOG/MERIT invest in like 15 or 20 base stations, rather than wasting the time/money on the cat5 cable and switches -- etc.
A wireless card costs all of $200 these days... everyone could just get one.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof...
I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room).
Joe
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
As long as they keep providing power sockets in the rooms for those of us who have laptops that can't survive 4 hours straight on battery. Thomas
Merit actually has enough access points (it really only takes 4-6 of them... it's more of a user mindshare issue... hence the continuing availability of laptop drops... note however that there are fewer at the recent meeting (ie. we had almost 300 for one room at nanog 17).
the cisco folks used about 24 access points(overkill) for the ietf in sandiego that was enough to blanket the conference center and the hotel below the 3rd floor...
joelja
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex wrote:
I'd rather see NANOG/MERIT invest in like 15 or 20 base stations, rather than wasting the time/money on the cat5 cable and switches -- etc.
A wireless card costs all of $200 these days... everyone could just get one.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof...
I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room).
Joe
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
Also, it would be nice if the hotel had ethernet in the rooms (in-house DSL or whatnot) or wireless sufficent to cover the hotel. If the conference moves to larger and larger hotels the wireless covering the whole hotel isn't as possible. The IETF-49 density of access points was quite nice - Jared On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:26:40PM -0400, Thomas Kernen wrote:
As long as they keep providing power sockets in the rooms for those of us who have laptops that can't survive 4 hours straight on battery.
Thomas
Merit actually has enough access points (it really only takes 4-6 of them... it's more of a user mindshare issue... hence the continuing availability of laptop drops... note however that there are fewer at the recent meeting (ie. we had almost 300 for one room at nanog 17).
the cisco folks used about 24 access points(overkill) for the ietf in sandiego that was enough to blanket the conference center and the hotel below the 3rd floor...
joelja
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex wrote:
I'd rather see NANOG/MERIT invest in like 15 or 20 base stations, rather than wasting the time/money on the cat5 cable and switches -- etc.
A wireless card costs all of $200 these days... everyone could just get one.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof...
I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room).
Joe
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
At this last NANOG, it seemed that the geometry, rather than just the size, of the hotel made covering even a small portion of rooms extremely difficult. The bar coverage was certainly nice. Interestingly, the Merit folks had far more wireless access points than they actually used at this last NANOG. The biggest problem was getting wired connectivity to all the places that access points were needed. The Sheraton was a very old hotel with primitive wiring. This may be easier at hotels of more recent vintage. Which may be a lesson learned for future hosts. - Daniel Golding -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Jared Mauch Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:08 PM To: Thomas Kernen Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Next NANOG Also, it would be nice if the hotel had ethernet in the rooms (in-house DSL or whatnot) or wireless sufficent to cover the hotel. If the conference moves to larger and larger hotels the wireless covering the whole hotel isn't as possible. The IETF-49 density of access points was quite nice - Jared On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:26:40PM -0400, Thomas Kernen wrote:
As long as they keep providing power sockets in the rooms for those of us
battery.
Thomas
Merit actually has enough access points (it really only takes 4-6 of them... it's more of a user mindshare issue... hence the continuing availability of laptop drops... note however that there are fewer at the recent meeting (ie. we had almost 300 for one room at nanog 17).
the cisco folks used about 24 access points(overkill) for the ietf in sandiego that was enough to blanket the conference center and the hotel below the 3rd floor...
joelja
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex wrote:
I'd rather see NANOG/MERIT invest in like 15 or 20 base stations,
rather
than wasting the time/money on the cat5 cable and switches -- etc.
A wireless card costs all of $200 these days... everyone could just get one.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we
could have
gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the
layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof...
I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for
who have laptops that can't survive 4 hours straight on table the
terminal room).
Joe
--
Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Daniel Golding said:
At this last NANOG, it seemed that the geometry, rather than just the size, of the hotel made covering even a small portion of rooms extremely difficult. The bar coverage was certainly nice. Interestingly, the Merit folks had far more wireless access points than they actually used at this last NANOG. The biggest problem was getting wired connectivity to all the places that access points were needed. The Sheraton was a very old hotel with primitive wiring. This may be easier at hotels of more recent vintage. Which may be a lesson learned for future hosts.
I worked the DC IETF-46 terminal room. I don't think many attendees realized what NorTel went through to get all those rooms on line. The building is roughly "X" shaped. There was no way around the base of the hotel, due to construction. They put a fiber switch on the room and dropped 4 heavy duty fiber bundles down 12 stories, one on each "face" of the X. Then we ran fiber or CAT 5 in windows/shafts/you name it on each "face" to get to each room. Each had a switch to feed laptop and 3 wireless nets. To make life more interesting, the hotel was being recarpeted, so many hallways were blocked; and the doors to the terminal room fell off in the process. So they had a guard sitting there all night, every night. I've never worked so hard for a free t-shirt in my life. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
If someone was asking me I would ask that the hotel had a decent gym and pool, or that these things were a reasonable distance away (not the case in ATL). Of course, no one is asking me... Dave According to Jared Mauch:
Also, it would be nice if the hotel had ethernet in the rooms (in-house DSL or whatnot) or wireless sufficent to cover the hotel.
If the conference moves to larger and larger hotels the wireless covering the whole hotel isn't as possible.
The IETF-49 density of access points was quite nice
- Jared
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:26:40PM -0400, Thomas Kernen wrote:
As long as they keep providing power sockets in the rooms for those of us who have laptops that can't survive 4 hours straight on battery.
Thomas
Merit actually has enough access points (it really only takes 4-6 of them... it's more of a user mindshare issue... hence the continuing availability of laptop drops... note however that there are fewer at the recent meeting (ie. we had almost 300 for one room at nanog 17).
the cisco folks used about 24 access points(overkill) for the ietf in sandiego that was enough to blanket the conference center and the hotel below the 3rd floor...
joelja
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex wrote:
I'd rather see NANOG/MERIT invest in like 15 or 20 base stations, rather than wasting the time/money on the cat5 cable and switches -- etc.
A wireless card costs all of $200 these days... everyone could just get one.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote: > Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have > gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table > layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" > terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof...
I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room).
Joe
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
Hey Dave, What would YOU look for in a hotel location? Thus spake David Meyer (dmm@cisco.com) on or about Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 08:03:03AM -0800:
If someone was asking me I would ask that the hotel had a decent gym and pool, or that these things were a reasonable distance away (not the case in ATL).
Of course, no one is asking me...
Dave
According to Jared Mauch:
Also, it would be nice if the hotel had ethernet in the rooms (in-house DSL or whatnot) or wireless sufficent to cover the hotel.
If the conference moves to larger and larger hotels the wireless covering the whole hotel isn't as possible.
The IETF-49 density of access points was quite nice
- Jared
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:26:40PM -0400, Thomas Kernen wrote:
As long as they keep providing power sockets in the rooms for those of us who have laptops that can't survive 4 hours straight on battery.
Thomas
Merit actually has enough access points (it really only takes 4-6 of them... it's more of a user mindshare issue... hence the continuing availability of laptop drops... note however that there are fewer at the recent meeting (ie. we had almost 300 for one room at nanog 17).
the cisco folks used about 24 access points(overkill) for the ietf in sandiego that was enough to blanket the conference center and the hotel below the 3rd floor...
joelja
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex wrote:
I'd rather see NANOG/MERIT invest in like 15 or 20 base stations, rather than wasting the time/money on the cat5 cable and switches -- etc.
A wireless card costs all of $200 these days... everyone could just get one.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote: > > Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have > > gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table > > layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" > > terminal room machines from one of the student labs - > > If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost? > > (assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- > connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof...
I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
> doing wireless-only in the > conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the > terminal room). > > > Joe >
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
the more access points, the more aggregate bandwidth you will get on the 802.11 cloud... On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
Merit actually has enough access points (it really only takes 4-6 of them... it's more of a user mindshare issue... hence the continuing availability of laptop drops... note however that there are fewer at the recent meeting (ie. we had almost 300 for one room at nanog 17).
the cisco folks used about 24 access points(overkill) for the ietf in sandiego that was enough to blanket the conference center and the hotel below the 3rd floor...
joelja
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex wrote:
I'd rather see NANOG/MERIT invest in like 15 or 20 base stations, rather than wasting the time/money on the cat5 cable and switches -- etc.
A wireless card costs all of $200 these days... everyone could just get one.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof...
I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room).
Joe
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
well... yeah but if your link is a couple multiplexed t-1's the difference between say 4 and 10 access points may not be all that great... joelja On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex wrote:
the more access points, the more aggregate bandwidth you will get on the 802.11 cloud...
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
Merit actually has enough access points (it really only takes 4-6 of them... it's more of a user mindshare issue... hence the continuing availability of laptop drops... note however that there are fewer at the recent meeting (ie. we had almost 300 for one room at nanog 17).
the cisco folks used about 24 access points(overkill) for the ietf in sandiego that was enough to blanket the conference center and the hotel below the 3rd floor...
joelja
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Alex wrote:
I'd rather see NANOG/MERIT invest in like 15 or 20 base stations, rather than wasting the time/money on the cat5 cable and switches -- etc.
A wireless card costs all of $200 these days... everyone could just get one.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit,
we actually tried to do a wireless run as a backup plan, but couldn't find an open conduit, and the hotel balked at the thought of our wiring guys coring 11 floors in order to get to the roof...
I don't think nanog is quite ready to go wireless only in the meeting room although cutting down on the wired infrastructure deployed is something that's been worked on...
doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room).
Joe
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
the cisco folks used about 24 access points(overkill) for the ietf in sandiego that was enough to blanket the conference center and the hotel below the 3rd floor...
One thing which I would find useful is connectivity which extends into the hotel rooms themselves. Wireless would be nice, but most hotels don't cope with this very well. One conference I went to (I can't remember if it was NANOG or USENIX) provided dial-in on a hotel extension, which was useful! Simon -- Simon Lockhart | Tel: +44 (0)1737 839676 Internet Engineering Manager | Fax: +44 (0)1737 839516 BBC Internet Services | Email: Simon.Lockhart@bbc.co.uk Kingswood Warren,Tadworth,Surrey,UK | URL: http://support.bbc.co.uk/
On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Simon Lockhart wrote:
One thing which I would find useful is connectivity which extends into the hotel rooms themselves. Wireless would be nice, but most hotels don't cope with this very well. One conference I went to (I can't remember if it was NANOG or USENIX) provided dial-in on a hotel extension, which was useful!
The hotel of the future, giving you 10/100 switched ethernet to the room (a hub at extra charge), and the hotel then gets an uplink to X NSP, based on number of rooms and average usage. Along with that comes online gaming among hotel guests (you can have a PC installed - laptop for the suites - for extra charge), with online games installed, where hotel guests connect to a hotel gaming server (quake server for example), and play among themselves. Of course, downstairs in the game rooms, there will be also computers who can be used for the el-cheapo guests, if they can't afford one in the room, in order to play (price/time of usage). .... --Ariel
Simon -- Simon Lockhart | Tel: +44 (0)1737 839676 Internet Engineering Manager | Fax: +44 (0)1737 839516 BBC Internet Services | Email: Simon.Lockhart@bbc.co.uk Kingswood Warren,Tadworth,Surrey,UK| URL: http://support.bbc.co.uk/
-- Ariel Biener e-mail: ariel@post.tau.ac.il PGP(6.5.8) public key http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html
On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Simon Lockhart wrote:
One thing which I would find useful is connectivity which extends into the hotel rooms themselves. Wireless would be nice, but most hotels don't cope with this very well. One conference I went to (I can't remember if it was NANOG or USENIX) provided dial-in on a hotel extension, which was useful!
The hotel of the future, giving you 10/100 switched ethernet to the room (a hub at extra charge), and the hotel then gets an uplink to X NSP, based on number of rooms and average usage.
Along with that comes online gaming among hotel guests (you can have a PC installed - laptop for the suites - for extra charge), with online games installed, where hotel guests connect to a hotel gaming server (quake server for example), and play among themselves.
If the quake server is a requirement, does that specifically include or exclude Seattle?
Of course, downstairs in the game rooms, there will be also computers who can be used for the el-cheapo guests, if they can't afford one in the room, in order to play (price/time of usage).
....
--Ariel
\
Hello - This already exists in several hotels in Singapore (including the Sheraton in Scotts Road). SingNet is providing the service in conjunction with some other companies. regards Hugh On Thursday 01 March 2001 20:26, Ariel Biener wrote:
On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Simon Lockhart wrote:
One thing which I would find useful is connectivity which extends into the hotel rooms themselves. Wireless would be nice, but most hotels don't cope with this very well. One conference I went to (I can't remember if it was NANOG or USENIX) provided dial-in on a hotel extension, which was useful!
The hotel of the future, giving you 10/100 switched ethernet to the room (a hub at extra charge), and the hotel then gets an uplink to X NSP, based on number of rooms and average usage.
Along with that comes online gaming among hotel guests (you can have a PC installed - laptop for the suites - for extra charge), with online games installed, where hotel guests connect to a hotel gaming server (quake server for example), and play among themselves.
Of course, downstairs in the game rooms, there will be also computers who can be used for the el-cheapo guests, if they can't afford one in the room, in order to play (price/time of usage).
.....
--Ariel
Simon -- Simon Lockhart | Tel: +44 (0)1737 839676 Internet Engineering Manager | Fax: +44 (0)1737 839516 BBC Internet Services | Email: Simon.Lockhart@bbc.co.uk Kingswood Warren,Tadworth,Surrey,UK| URL: http://support.bbc.co.uk/
-- Ariel Biener e-mail: ariel@post.tau.ac.il PGP(6.5.8) public key http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html
-- Radiator: the most portable, flexible and configurable RADIUS server anywhere. Available on *NIX, *BSD, Windows 95/98/2000, NT, MacOS X. - Nets: internetwork inventory and management - graphical, extensible, flexible with hardware, software, platform and database independence.
Hugh Irvine wrote:
Hello -
This already exists in several hotels in Singapore (including the Sheraton in Scotts Road). SingNet is providing the service in conjunction with some other companies.
regards
Hugh
and holding NANOG in Singapore would also cut down on that overcrowding problem some people have mentioned. ;) -- Scott Francis scott@ [work:] v i r t u a l i s . c o m darkuncle@ [home:] d a r k u n c l e . n e t PGP fingerprint 7ABF E2E9 CD54 A1A8 804D 179A 8802 0FBA CB33 CCA7 illum oportet crescere me autem minui
Well - we paid for stuff like shipping (gear), power strips, gaffer tape, video tapes, a rental truck, volunteer munchies, and a lot of misc. Verio picked up a big chunk of our costs (Thanks Randy!) - If you've got gear, local loop, & transit you might be able to do a meeting for under $3,500. (modulo a blues band - which SHOULD be a requirement) Lucy E. Lynch Academic User Services Computing Center University of Oregon llynch@darkwing.uoregon.edu (541) 346-1774 Cell: (541) 912-7998 5419127998@mobile.att.net On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:23:19AM -0800, Lucy E. Lynch wrote:
Our big costs were US West curcuits into the hotel (6xT1 - we could have gotten away with 4xT1) and cable - we had lenghts cut to fit the table layout in the ballroom. We had switches & such on hand, and we "borrowed" terminal room machines from one of the student labs -
If these costs were negligible, how much would it have cost?
(assuming, for example, an 802.11b shot from a hotel to an already- connected nearby building, donated transit, doing wireless-only in the conference and having some friendly vendor loan the machines for the terminal room).
Joe
There were about 650 registered for the last one. I'm not sure how many showed up. Network stats indicated that over 400 individual DHCP addresses were in use at any one time. The problem is meeting room size, and the concept of multiple tracks. Is there enough material to have multiple tracks? Is it desirable at all? It has seemed to work well for the tutorials. Might be an interesting experiment for the next NANOG. Daniel L. Golding dan@netrail.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Christian Nielsen Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 5:27 PM To: Rodney Caston Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Next NANOG On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Rodney Caston wrote:
Vegas would be nice :)
which allow Nanog to allow more people to go. Has there been talk about allowing more then 500 to attend?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
TBA - which from what I heard means there's a probable but not firm
yet...
joelja
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Pete Kruckenberg wrote:
Was the date/place of the next NANOG announced in Atlanta?
Pete.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
participants (24)
-
Alan Hannan -
Alex -
Alex Rubenstein
-
Ariel Biener -
Bora Akyol -
Christian Nielsen -
Daniel Golding -
David Lesher -
David Meyer -
Dee McKinney -
Howard C. Berkowitz -
Hugh Irvine -
Jared Mauch -
Joe Abley -
Joel Jaeggli -
Lucy E. Lynch -
Pete Kruckenberg -
Randy Bush -
Rodney Caston -
Scott Francis -
Simon Lockhart -
Suzanne Woolf -
Thomas Kernen -
Wayne Bouchard