On 04/05/2011 10:53, Leigh Porter wrote:

This may be a silly question but.. How did it get in there?

I'm assuming that it's not yet "in there" :-) I'd probably knock the wall down and fit a more reasonably sized door - 620mm (2') seems a bit narrow for a door anyway. One could of course get a 600mm wide rack instead ... Regards, James

On May 4, 2011, at 5:06 AM, James Aldridge wrote:

On 04/05/2011 10:53, Leigh Porter wrote:

...

This may be a silly question but.. How did it get in there?

I'm assuming that it's not yet "in there" :-)

I'd probably knock the wall down and fit a more reasonably sized door - 620mm (2') seems a bit narrow for a door anyway.

One could of course get a 600mm wide rack instead ...

I agree. Put the too big rack up on ebay and get a smaller one (or one you can get through the door. This is gotta be cheaper than knocking down, dust abatement and rebuilding a wall. I am not big on cutting the rack unless you know a ME and a really good welder and that may still not be cheaper than sell and buy new. Tom

On Wed, 4 May 2011 13:59:45 -0400 Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com> wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=142997624312&set=a.131293284312.94985.507204312&type=1&theater

"You must log in to see this page." Please don't post links that require passwords. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net> | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.

On Wed, May 04, 2011 at 02:26:13PM -0400, Alex Rubenstein said:

Or:

This content is currently unavailable The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.

gated-community internet FAIL /kc

...

-----Original Message----- From: D'Arcy J.M. Cain [mailto:darcy@druid.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 2:23 PM To: Barry Shein Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Server Cabinet

On Wed, 4 May 2011 13:59:45 -0400 Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com> wrote:

...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=142997624312&set=a.1312932843 12.94985.507204312&type=1&theater

"You must log in to see this page."

Please don't post links that require passwords.

-- D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net> | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.

-- Ken Chase - ken@heavycomputing.ca skype:kenchase23 +1 416 897 6284 Toronto Canada Heavy Computing - Clued bandwidth, colocation and managed linux VPS @151 Front St. W.

Not a silly question my fault for not making clear - cabinet is still outside the room ... yet to go in. And, no other entrance points. Room is below ground level, with a stupidly narrow door frame. Old client building, with a room not originally designed for purpose. Short of scrapping this cabinet, and looking for one where the chassis unbolts also? Rob On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Tom Hill <tom@ninjabadger.net> wrote:

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 09:43 +0100, Robert Lusby wrote:

...

Can you see where this is leading yet?

Is there no other entrance that's wider, perhaps a window/skylight?

Cutting-up a cabinet (only to find that it's pretty impossible to make it sturdy again) or demolishing the wall may well be more costly than hiring a fork lift/crane, etc.

Just musing..

Tom

In a message written on Wed, May 04, 2011 at 10:09:33AM +0100, Robert Lusby wrote:

And, no other entrance points. Room is below ground level, with a stupidly narrow door frame. Old client building, with a room not originally designed for purpose.

I think folks can help you find a bolt together rack, but I urge you to think one step further. I'm making an assumption that this is a fairly small room, a closet or similar. I do that because even in an old building a room would not likely have a 2' doorway. This raises several questions: Would you be able to get to both sides of the rack and side things all the way out to service them in this space? How are you going to cool the space? Are the power circuits in that room up to powering a full rack of equipment? Will fan and equipment noise annoy adjacent rooms? -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/

It's admittedly far from ideal in some ways, but a great way to deal with this sort of situation can be to get a pair of two-post open frame relay racks; most of them bolt together and can be put just about anywhere. Many times we forget that these can be used as the front and back of a single rack. Remember to tie them together if you go that route, attachment to a wall or up top highly recommended as well.

I've gone this route. Plusses are you can have pretty much any depth you

want. If you can bolt them to the floor they're really stable.

If you have a need for a 4-post rack, do not accomplish that by using 2 2-po= st racks. You will likely find that rack rails that are designed for a 4-pos= t rack will not fit.

Why? With *any* rack, there are always scenarios where the rack rails for some random item don't end up fitting right. That's certainly not a problem inherent to two 2-post racks. You can find 2-post racks in any number of interesting and unusual post/flange configurations. It's certainly true that picking any old random 2-post rack has certain hazards associated with it - the solution is don't pick "any old random" one, not "don't pick a 2-post rack." But the look-before-buying rule applies to any rack you buy, doesn't it?

Get an open-frame 4-post rack. It will come unassembled.

Most of the open-frame 4-post racks I've seen are actually less sturdy than two 2-post racks; the 2-post racks are generally designed to hold a Lot Of Stuff. In other words, many 4-post racks are not really designed for that much weight. For example, look at the Middle Atlantic Slim 5, which only has a weight capacity of 400 pounds. http://www.middleatlantic.com/enclosure/knock/slim5.htm The RL10-45, on the other hand, has a 1600 lb weight capacity, http://www.middleatlantic.com/dcm/rack/rl.htm so double that for two of them and then reduce it for a safety margin and you have maybe 2000 lb capacity. I can probably *find* four-post units with greater weight capacity, but I suspect that two 2-post racks will tend to have greater capacity just because the design of a 2-post unit is more likely to allow for heavy gear being mounted on it. Now of course we have no idea what's going to be mounted in this, but it's an HP rack so I assume maybe HP servers, which tend towards the heavy. http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantstorage/racks/10000series... suggests a 2000lb maximum static load requirement.

It will also likely= be no more costly that 2 2-post racks.

Hm. Maybe. Distributor: SLIM 5 KNOCK DOWN 37 SP, 20" DEEP $275.99 MIDDLE ATLANTIC - U.S. Found online: http://salestores.com/apwmay2273.html $90.78 So I'm a little skeptical about that too. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.

Once upon a time, Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net> said:

...

Now of course we have no idea what's going to be mounted in this, but it's an HP rack so I assume maybe HP servers, which tend towards the heavy.

One thing about using a 2-post rack for servers that can be a problem is that most 2-post racks I've seen have tapped holes, ready for screws, and some server rails (such as Dell) pretty much require square hole or round hole racks instead. You can get third-party server rails that will work with a tapped hole rack, but that's an extra expense (and irritation).

That's a good point. Without knowing the intended equipment load, it is difficult to give good advice on this part. However, since it's an HP rack, an obvious guess might be HP servers, and I will note that the HP rails I've seen, while designed for square or round hole racks, do allow the little peglets to be removed, and are then compatible with most racks I've seen. Unfortunately they have a thread-lock compound on them, so be prepared to sit down with a flat blade power screwdriver and some pliers; removal is about 2 minutes per set of rails that way. I've come to like the HP server gear a whole lot more than Dell over the years. Little things like that are one of the reasons. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.

----- Original Message -----

...

If you have a need for a 4-post rack, do not accomplish that by using 2 2-po= st racks. You will likely find that rack rails that are designed for a 4-pos= t rack will not fit.

Why? With *any* rack, there are always scenarios where the rack rails for some random item don't end up fitting right. That's certainly not a problem inherent to two 2-post racks. You can find 2-post racks in any number of interesting and unusual post/flange configurations. It's certainly true that picking any old random 2-post rack has certain hazards associated with it - the solution is don't pick "any old random" one, not "don't pick a 2-post rack." But the look-before-buying rule applies to any rack you buy, doesn't it?

The major issue is that 2-post rack rails are generally U-shaped, and have tapped holes. Server rack rails are L-shaped and generally have square holes. The vast majority of mounting rails I have seen in server equipment, in the last few years especially, will not fit because of the extra inside rails. Been there, done that, had to buy a real 4-post rack. Is it really a big deal to spend $500 for the proper rack? I do agree that some 4-post racks tend to be flimsier than the 2-post racks, but when properly assembled, any decent brand should work fine. Just make sure to double check the weight capacities. -Randy

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net> wrote:

I guess that could be.  My own experience in the last few years is that it hasn't been a problem.  An old Cisco AccessPath rack I use here in the shop for testing took several HP DLnnn servers with the HP rails no problem; it's a tapped-hole beast but the HP rails just needed the pegs removed and they worked fine, no worries about any hangouts on the sides or anything else that I can recall.

Dell is the main offender here. HP mostly figured this one out five years ago though some of their rebranded equipment still suffers. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com  bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004

On 5/4/2011 10:07 AM, Chaim Rieger wrote:

Do you have any kids ? If yes ask them to do it, leave and come back a few hours later

At last, a helpful answer! Seriously, disregarding all the helpful comments from everyone questioning your judgment in trying to move a large cabinet through a small door... * cut the cabinet into smaller pieces, move through door, re-assemble via your preferred method, be it welder, chewing gum or duct tape * make the door bigger, which would mean that if you decide at some point you want to move the cabinet again, you won't have this issue * bend the very fabric of space and time itself to place the cabinet inside the room without going through the door I'd pick the second one, but if you go with the third let me know so I can watch. Jason

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Michael Holstein <michael.holstein@csuohio.edu> wrote:

...

We have a door-way that said server cabinet must fit through, measuring up at 620mm.

A 24" door? .. dang, that's tiny. Did someone mix up OD and ID when considering what a 19" rack meant?

...

1) Have you ever had to fit a cabinet through a doorway that's too small?

Yes. I will say up front that it's cheaper and easier to just buy one that fits (a knockdown, etc.) .. unless you're doing it yourself and don't assign value to your time, consider you'll be removing at least 1 stud, floor-to-ceiling, and any associated wiring that runs through it, along with the drywall on both sides. Refitting that, taping, sanding, painting, etc. If this is a commercial building and you're obligated to use tradesman, you've got at least 2 (carpentry and electrical), plus maybe a building permit, etc.

...

2) How did you do it? Cut cabinet, demolish wall ...?

The cabinet will be easier than the wall, but the wall will need less specialized tools (drywall work is easier than welding).

...

3) If you cut the cabinet, any tips?

Anything that will produce a weldable edge will do (sawzall, etc.) but consider that you will then have to grind the paint and fire up a mig welder (EMI issues) in your data closet, then grind (and paint) the results if you want it to look pretty. All I'll say about that is you'd better be darn sure everything is grounded. Also .. wear a respirator.

Cutting/grinding the welds at the opposed corners top/bottom (to produce two triangular pieces that can swivel around and in) will be the easiest to weld back together (using a new triangular piece of steel as a brace if needed).

If you don't know how to weld (and own a welder), or finish drywall (also harder than it looks) the costs associated with hiring out either of your two choices will easily equal just buying one that'd fit.

Also, as someone else mentioned .. what happens next time it needs to move?

I own stick and MIG welders; I would not recommend this route for a new welder. The racks tend to be thin enough material that getting welds right is tough for new welders. Also - if you have proper fire suppression in the room, it's likely to have a fit at the welding fumes. 12 years ago while I was partially under the raised floor at Frontier Globalcenter in Sunnyvale, a Liebert repair guy welding up a frame crack in a air unit set off the stage 1 fire alarm for the second floor room, and it nearly got to the stage-2-discharge-all-the-FM200 point (I was far out of the room by that point, but the FGC facilities guy said it was low single digit seconds remaining in the countdown when he disarmed). I recommend another room, or the knockdown rack models and sell this one on eBay... -- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com