Hi, Tom: 1)    " ... it has serious deficiencies. ... ":    Could you please be specific? Branding something without qualifying information is unprofessional. Regards, Abe (2022-03-17 13:18) ------------------------------ NANOG Digest, Vol 170, Issue 19 Message: 2 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 08:28:36 -0400 From: Tom Beecher<beecher@beecher.cc> To: Greg Skinner<gregskinner0@icloud.com> Cc:bzs@theworld.com, "North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: CC: s to Non List Members (was Re: 202203080924.AYC Re: 202203071610.AYC Re: Making Use of 240/4 NetBlock) Message-ID: <CAL9Qcx5v4Mko-kAdHpRx4KiRZ8e2ubQ-dV6GHg8djOYqxDUMuQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" No quibble about the discussion happening on a NOG list, not at all. But frankly unless the proposal is even starting to move forward in the IETF process such that a standards change is possible, it's just noise. ( I don't predict that the draft being discussed ever gets that far anyways ; it has serious deficiencies.) On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 6:53 PM Greg Skinner via NANOG<nanog@nanog.org> wrote:

I agree. iMO, this 240/4 issue is another one of those tussles in cyberspace <https://david.choffnes.com/classes/cs4700fa14/papers/tussle.pdf>. But I don?t fault IETF people or anyone else who pursues technical solutions to these types of problems as long as they are open and honest about the limitations of these solutions.

Also, IMO, the value of having a discussion about this issue here (and other NOG forums) is to get the perspective of people who (generally speaking) deal more immediately with the problems the broader ?online" population has with IETF-based technology.

?gregbo

On Mar 8, 2022, at 9:25 PM,bzs@theworld.com wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder if the internet will survive the ipv6 adoption debates.

Here's the real problem which you all can promptly ignore:

The IETF et al are full of bright technical people who can design protocols, packet formats, etc.

But many of the major problems facing the internet are not, at their core, engineering problems.

They're in the realm of social, legal, marketing, politics, int'l policy, governance, law enforcement, commerce, economics, sociology, psychology, etc. which TBH as bright as many of the engineers et al are these problems are way beyond their ken, occasional polymath excepted.

But first you have to admit you have a problem, and limitations.

Shouting at the rafters about address space depletion etc while waving RFCs may not quite do it.

Similar can be said about spam, malware attacks, phishing, etc.

Yet another cryptographic protocol probably won't save the day but as the expression goes when all you have is a hammer the whole world looks like a nail.

-- -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die | bzs at TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility |*oo*

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