are underwater routers a thing?
I was reading an article in the Economist about a new fiber route down the Red Sea from Israel and wondered if there were any branches off of those lines and where the routers were for them. The route kind of made it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave them at sea if you could put a router there. Mike
it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave them at sea if you could put a router there. First thing that comes to mind is power, how would you power them?
On Mar 17, 2022, at 9:26 PM, Jerry Cloe <jerry@jtcloe.net> wrote:
it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave them at sea if you could put a router there.
First thing that comes to mind is power, how would you power them?
Undersea cables absolutely carry power along with the fiber. It is needed for inline amplifiers. -Andy
It appears that Jerry Cloe <jerry@jtcloe.net> said:
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it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave them at sea if you could put a router there.
First thing that comes to mind is power, how would you power them?
Undersea cables have had power for repeaters since TAT-1 in 1956. I think we can consider that to be a solved problem. R's, John
John's probably seen this but I think it addresses power on cables and branching nodes (which are just optical /roadm devices) https://youtu.be/H9R4tznCNB0 On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 22:40 John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
It appears that Jerry Cloe <jerry@jtcloe.net> said:
-=-=-=-=-=-
it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave them at sea if you could put a router there.
First thing that comes to mind is power, how would you power them?
Undersea cables have had power for repeaters since TAT-1 in 1956. I think we can consider that to be a solved problem.
R's, John
On Thu, 2022-03-17 at 21:26 -0500, Jerry Cloe wrote:
First thing that comes to mind is power, how would you power them?
Hydroelectricity (or wave energy), *obviously*. Sheesh. :-) Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer GPG fingerprint: 61A0 99A9 8823 3A75 871E 5D90 BADB B237 260C 9C58 Old fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170
High voltage DC from landing stations to the underwater amps and submarine branching units. jms On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 22:46 Karl Auer <kauer@biplane.com.au> wrote:
On Thu, 2022-03-17 at 21:26 -0500, Jerry Cloe wrote:
First thing that comes to mind is power, how would you power them?
Hydroelectricity (or wave energy), *obviously*. Sheesh.
:-)
Regards, K.
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer
GPG fingerprint: 61A0 99A9 8823 3A75 871E 5D90 BADB B237 260C 9C58 Old fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170
First thing that comes to mind is power, how would you power them?
The first answer that came to my mind was Raman amplification. It is powered by a beam of light and the fiber itself is the amplifier. Of course, there are no Raman Routers. Schroedinger Routers .. now that's what I want to see. Deflection routing taken to its logical conclusion. But you can never tell if it worked or not. $ dump bgp .. just by the act of seeing routes will have changed them. -- //Shrikumar ---Original Message---
From: Jerry Cloe <jerry@jtcloe.net> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 21:26:10 -0500 To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RE: are underwater routers a thing?
it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave them at sea if you could put a router there.
First thing that comes to mind is power, how would you power them?
On Thu, 2022-03-17 at 19:59 -0700, H.Shrikumar wrote:
Schroedinger Routers .. now that's what I want to see. Deflection routing taken to its logical conclusion. But you can never tell if it worked or not.
Yes, you can. But you can't see if they are *working*. :-) Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer GPG fingerprint: 61A0 99A9 8823 3A75 871E 5D90 BADB B237 260C 9C58 Old fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170
Surprisingly it is power that primarily limits repeater count in undersea spans. Ie, most available power is going to be eaten up budget wise by the repeaters, leaving none for routers. It’s not terribly clear that a router would substantially benefit things that a ROADM could not also accomplish, and those do exist in undersea systems. As routers decrease in power and coalesce with silicon photonics, this may change. -LB Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO ben@6by7.net "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” ANNOUNCING: 6x7 GLOBAL MARITIME <https://alexmhoulton.wixsite.com/6x7networks> FCC License KJ6FJJ
On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:42 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
I was reading an article in the Economist about a new fiber route down the Red Sea from Israel and wondered if there were any branches off of those lines and where the routers were for them. The route kind of made it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave them at sea if you could put a router there.
Mike
On 3/17/22 18:42, Michael Thomas wrote:
I was reading an article in the Economist about a new fiber route down the Red Sea from Israel and wondered if there were any branches off of those lines and where the routers were for them. The route kind of made it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave them at sea if you could put a router there.
There's a limited number of possible branches on a cable and as a result you just put the routers on the edges rather than in the middle. What you do put in the water is something like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_branching_unit The more the active electronics are at the ends rather than in the open ocean the greater the serviceability is and also over the lifetime of the cable the easier it is to upgrade it to higher capacity as the data bearing capacity of a given wavelength increases. The FLAG cable has had for example has has several capacity increases over it's service life which closing in on 25 years at this point. Amplifiers are still necessary for longer spans but a lot of other logic is not. for situations where the distances are manageable passive unrepeated systems are greatly prefered because it keeps servicing due to electronic faults to a minimum and reduces the cost accordingly. see the recent tonga cable fault and repair for a passive system. The mean depth of the worlds oceans is around ~3700 meters below MSL which means most service calls involve deploying to the proximate location of the fault, fishing around for a while and then carefully re-laying several kilometers of cable on a splice has been made. which typically takes weeks.
Mike
On 3/18/22 06:21, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
The mean depth of the worlds oceans is around ~3700 meters below MSL which means most service calls involve deploying to the proximate location of the fault, fishing around for a while and then carefully re-laying several kilometers of cable on a splice has been made. which typically takes weeks.
And lots, and lots of $$. Mark.
On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 1:57 PM Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote:
On 3/18/22 06:21, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
The mean depth of the worlds oceans is around ~3700 meters below MSL which means most service calls involve deploying to the proximate location of the fault, fishing around for a while and then carefully re-laying several kilometers of cable on a splice has been made. which typically takes weeks.
And lots, and lots of $$.
Just arrange for a volcano to go off, and splice then.
Mark.
-- I tried to build a better future, a few times: https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
I was reading an article in the Economist about a new fiber route down the Red Sea from Israel and wondered if there were any branches off of those lines and where the routers were for them. The route kind of made it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave them at sea if you could put a router there.
The NSA taps aren't really routers per se but networking devices nonetheless. - Ethan
participants (13)
-
Andy Ringsmuth -
Christopher Morrow -
Dave Taht -
Ethan O'Toole -
H.Shrikumar -
Jerry Cloe -
Joel Jaeggli -
John Levine -
Justin Streiner -
Karl Auer -
Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe -
Mark Tinka -
Michael Thomas