Has anyone here had their legal department balk at the legal agreement that ARIN wants you to sign when you get things like an AS number or an IP block? Any luck in negotiating with ARIN? The agreement has language at the top saying that ARIN doesn't accept modifications, but our legal team is questioning whether that means it really is non-negotiable. They're not exactly fans of it as it is written. (I probably can't share what my legal counsel is saying to me about the agreement, but it's probably not relevant to the question anyway...) === Jeremy Charles Epic - Computer and Technology Services Division jcharles@epic.com Phone: 608-271-9000 Fax: 608-271-7237
doesn't hurt to ask arin's legal folks, they work for you (kinda). On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Jeremy Charles <JCharles@epic.com> wrote:
Has anyone here had their legal department balk at the legal agreement that ARIN wants you to sign when you get things like an AS number or an IP block? Any luck in negotiating with ARIN?
Don't know for sure but I doubt it. The whole point is that everyone plays by the same set of rules and opening up the RSA for "negotiation" would defeat that purpose. -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Charles [mailto:JCharles@epic.com] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:46 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: ARIN negotiation? Has anyone here had their legal department balk at the legal agreement that ARIN wants you to sign when you get things like an AS number or an IP block? Any luck in negotiating with ARIN? The agreement has language at the top saying that ARIN doesn't accept modifications, but our legal team is questioning whether that means it really is non-negotiable. They're not exactly fans of it as it is written. (I probably can't share what my legal counsel is saying to me about the agreement, but it's probably not relevant to the question anyway...) === Jeremy Charles Epic - Computer and Technology Services Division jcharles@epic.com Phone: 608-271-9000 Fax: 608-271-7237 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2752 - Release Date: 03/26/10 02:33:00
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Jeremy Charles <JCharles@epic.com> wrote:
Has anyone here had their legal department balk at the legal agreement that ARIN wants you to sign when you get things like an AS number or an IP block?
Yes.
Any luck in negotiating with ARIN?
No.
The agreement has language at the top saying that ARIN doesn't accept modifications, but our legal team is questioning whether that means it really is non-negotiable.
It does.
They're not exactly fans of it as it is written. (I probably can't share what my legal counsel is saying to me about the agreement, but it's probably not relevant to the question anyway...)
I can't imagine why anyone would balk at a contract where the "seller" more or less says, "You agree that all your base are belong to us." Suck it up; for better or for worse, that's how the game is played. The good news is that you can hop on ARIN PPML and have a respectably strong say in what rules get written. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
I am aware of a general case where the RSA has been modified. As presented, the RSA is targeted toward US-based commercial & not-for-profit entities. If you are a soveriegn in the ARIN region or are a state government in the US, I beleive there is some wiggle-room for changing liability and venue clauses. Your best bet is to inquire of the ARIN GC or legal team about your specfic concerns. --bill manning On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 04:45:45PM -0500, Jeremy Charles wrote:
Has anyone here had their legal department balk at the legal agreement that ARIN wants you to sign when you get things like an AS number or an IP block? Any luck in negotiating with ARIN?
The agreement has language at the top saying that ARIN doesn't accept modifications, but our legal team is questioning whether that means it really is non-negotiable. They're not exactly fans of it as it is written.
(I probably can't share what my legal counsel is saying to me about the agreement, but it's probably not relevant to the question anyway...)
=== Jeremy Charles Epic - Computer and Technology Services Division jcharles@epic.com
Phone: 608-271-9000 Fax: 608-271-7237
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 yes; no; without reservation; really, why would a competent lawyer have any problems accepting that contract :) ? On 27 Mar 2010, at 08.45 , Jeremy Charles wrote:
Has anyone here had their legal department balk at the legal agreement that ARIN wants you to sign when you get things like an AS number or an IP block? Any luck in negotiating with ARIN?
The agreement has language at the top saying that ARIN doesn't accept modifications, but our legal team is questioning whether that means it really is non-negotiable. They're not exactly fans of it as it is written.
(I probably can't share what my legal counsel is saying to me about the agreement, but it's probably not relevant to the question anyway...)
=== Jeremy Charles Epic - Computer and Technology Services Division jcharles@epic.com
Phone: 608-271-9000 Fax: 608-271-7237
- --- 李柯睿 Check my PGP key here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLrUnQAAoJEGmx2Mt/+Iw/smoH/2eOivfobfS8RLEESWVp/cDx QYv7ALqfKh4RArXr3lRWtYjpJhjCwBH+bPDbycEyQGtq4738Ry5fC+MMwmwQf8GZ be6xa6C4RXxGMuRfaNX3xpPIxU893Vg++2vEvApQItrgBuMoc8R3+yxzT7s4P4b8 G0FnKp469LYiSFVaH2/0Pd8FrmXRUAMHWfi4BvOp3+rb8mKBReTUtfN7Sl/Rgts7 D1C7TjKo0lBN/4W6jjB0WAXA3A4MZF+HqHX3l28FIIpsv28NecWJfNun1Ja8PVmh O7yIg/RKrxezCLnNWEp6A7zeBSvpqDkrr2gKKrWDdKOkZXsa2cnby/2bBLCbtBk= =WweW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hello Jeremy - So let's see if I can clarify some of your questions: - ARIN doesn't generally modify the terms of the RSA agreement (this is a fairness issue so that all address holders are under similar terms to the extent possible) - We've actually revised the RSA on several occasions to make the language more member-friendly. The most recent change was the release in February 2009 of RSA 10.0, noted here: <https://www.arin.net/announcements/2009/20090217_rsa.html> I'd recommend referring your legal team to this announcement and related FAQ documents, as we've tried to make as much of background information and reasoning available as possible. - If there are changes that your legal department would like to suggest, I would like to hear about them, and they'll be considered to see if they can be accommodated in a future revision to be made available for all members. Email is the best way to reach me, but I can also be tracked down at my ARIN office number (+1 703 227 9850). Thanks! /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN On Mar 26, 2010, at 5:45 PM, Jeremy Charles wrote:
Has anyone here had their legal department balk at the legal agreement that ARIN wants you to sign when you get things like an AS number or an IP block? Any luck in negotiating with ARIN?
The agreement has language at the top saying that ARIN doesn't accept modifications, but our legal team is questioning whether that means it really is non-negotiable. They're not exactly fans of it as it is written.
Thanks to those who replied to offer experience and input on working with ARIN. You've given me some helpful information to pass along to our legal team when considering the RSA. Cheers! -JC
participants (7)
-
Aaron Wendel -
bmanning＠vacation.karoshi.com -
Christopher LILJENSTOLPE -
Christopher Morrow -
Jeremy Charles -
John Curran -
William Herrin