Anyone thought on the telco side yet about perceived issues with Y2K? Specifically, I was discussing with one of my telco guys about the sociological effects, namely, everyone watching the ball drop, then going off hook to see if they have dial tone, or dialing in to the Internet to see if it still works. Since most switches aren't designed for 100% off hook load, anyone seen any studies as to whether the switches will crash from that? I do envision seconds to get dialtone. I remember in our college days the new Nortel from Sprint took about 4 seconds to give us dialtone right after the Gulf War bombing started (mostly paranoid college guys debating if they were eligible for the draft I believe). Anyways, thoughts? Eric ========================================================================== Eric Germann Inacom Info Systems ekgermann@cctec.com Lima, OH 45801 Ph: 419 331 9050 ICQ: 41927048 Fax: 419 331 9302 "It is so easy to miss pretty trivial solutions to problems deemed complicated. The goal of a scientist is to find an interesting problem, and live off it for a while. The goal of an engineer is to evade interesting problems :)" -- Vadim Antonov <avg@kotovnik.com> on NANOG
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Eric Germann said:
Specifically, I was discussing with one of my telco guys about the sociological effects, namely, everyone watching the ball drop, then going off hook to see if they have dial tone, or dialing in to the Internet to see if it still works. Since most switches aren't designed for 100% off hook load, anyone seen any studies as to whether the switches will crash from that?
I strongly doubt it. A telco switch is designed to tolerate extreme abuse without dying. What it WILL do is deny dial tone to folks it can not handle, or delay it until it can. Further, it will reject incoming calls as necessary to survive. There is also a feature called "load control" I believe the term is. The LEC can make the switch reject incoming calls, yet complete outgoing ones -- useful in a disaster area where everyone suddenly calls to see if Grandma in Oakland is OK; limit both, and variations of same. Also, some lines can have priority; i.e. everyday folks get no/slow dialtone, but Hizonner & the Fire Chief are OK... Trivia: the independent Federal Telecommunications System [FTS] sprang up from the Cuban Missile Crisis, where it's said JFK could not get dialtone at the height of the shitinthefan. It was dedicated switches in diverse locales. Now it's all software-defined additions to the ordinary switches. I'm not reassured. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
----- Original Message ----- From: David Lesher <wb8foz@nrk.com> To: nanog list <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Perceived Y2K problems
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Eric Germann said:
Specifically, I was discussing with one of my telco guys about the sociological effects, namely, everyone watching the ball drop, then
going
off hook to see if they have dial tone, or dialing in to the Internet to see if it still works. Since most switches aren't designed for 100% off hook load, anyone seen any studies as to whether the switches will crash from that?
I strongly doubt it. A telco switch is designed to tolerate extreme abuse without dying. What it WILL do is deny dial tone to folks it can not handle, or delay it until it can. Further, it will reject incoming calls as necessary to survive.
Exactly. Everything will work as it should, and lots of people will get dead phone lines because all of the dialtones will be used up. I read somewhere that telcos plan on about 10% active usage. Anybody know for sure? What it all boils down to is that ISPs like mine will get flooded with tech calls (assuming the customer gets a dialtone for the tech support call) asking why *our* system is broken. We can explain it, of course, but that won't stop them from being skeptical, to say the least. The best we can hope for is the customers believing us as we pass the buck. What a mess.
Trivia: the independent Federal Telecommunications System [FTS] sprang up from the Cuban Missile Crisis, where it's said JFK could not get dialtone at the height of the shitinthefan. It was dedicated switches in diverse locales. Now it's all software-defined additions to the ordinary switches. I'm not reassured.
;-) Wasn't there a similar incident with Jon Bon Jovi a few years back? - Steve
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Steve Dispensa wrote:
Exactly. Everything will work as it should, and lots of people will get dead phone lines because all of the dialtones will be used up. I read somewhere that telcos plan on about 10% active usage. Anybody know for sure?
Well it is a little more complicated then that and involves cool Erlang formulas.
What it all boils down to is that ISPs like mine will get flooded with tech calls (assuming the customer gets a dialtone for the tech support call)
Everybody will get dialtone, your switch and have 0 trunks working out of it and you still will get dialtone. If you are served out of DLC you can get dialtone without any switch connectivity.
asking why *our* system is broken. We can explain it, of course, but that won't stop them from being skeptical, to say the least. The best we can hope for is the customers believing us as we pass the buck. What a mess.
If your system does not work Y2K it will be because you were not prepared, not your phone company. I am not saying people wont have billing issues because of Y2K, but your phone will work. I am not even saying you will not lose power (for a short time) because of Y2K, but your phone will work. P.S. Off topic, but did anyone see the new platforms Bell South and Sprint are mounting DLC systems on now after the flood? They are all made out of pressure treated 6x6 and at lease 10ft off the ground.
<> Nathan Stratton Tricetel Consulting http://www.tricetel.net nathan@tricetel.net http://www.robotics.net nathan@robotics.net
- Steve
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Eric Germann wrote:
Since most switches aren't designed for 100% off hook load, anyone seen any studies as to whether the switches will crash from that?
I seem to recall data from california, where a good number of handsets get knocked off-hook during earthquakes. AFAIK no switch ever crashed as a result of the load. -Dan
I seem to recall data from california, where a good number of handsets get knocked off-hook during earthquakes. AFAIK no switch ever crashed as a result of the load.
But the phone system in Raleigh, North Carolina crashed for a day when Garth Brooks tickets went on sale by phone. No matter where you called, you got a busy signal IF you managed to get a dial-tone at all. AlanC -- The richer you are, the more you should shop at a 7-11. Your time is valuable. You pay a little extra at a 7-11 to save time. If your time is really valuable, you cannot afford to shop at Wal-Mart for standard items.
A few months ago, there was an ilec that i got to hear stories about from a line tech as they were fixing one of my phone lines at home. I live in a college town, and what happens is that there is a lot of property that goes up for rent come june/july, and a lot of people move in in september, and late aug. What they did was wire all these places up to the same switch. Every day when classes got out, some residences that happened to get installed into the same switch had to wait up to 45 seconds for dialtone because of the load of people coming home, calling friends, or dialing up to the local campus network. I suspect that you will be unable to get dialtone because of these types of issues, but you will get dialtone eventually, just not the second you pick the phone up. This will mean that people who have stuff break because of y2k may not be able to call anyone depending on your communications methods. I find this quite an interesting challenge, if you can't place a call, you can't get paged to know that your router in some remote site just died, nor can they call to tell you, nor can you call the utilities to determine why. - Jared On Tue, Nov 30, 1999 at 09:23:25PM -0500, Eric Germann wrote:
Anyone thought on the telco side yet about perceived issues with Y2K? Specifically, I was discussing with one of my telco guys about the sociological effects, namely, everyone watching the ball drop, then going off hook to see if they have dial tone, or dialing in to the Internet to see if it still works. Since most switches aren't designed for 100% off hook load, anyone seen any studies as to whether the switches will crash from that? I do envision seconds to get dialtone. I remember in our college days the new Nortel from Sprint took about 4 seconds to give us dialtone right after the Gulf War bombing started (mostly paranoid college guys debating if they were eligible for the draft I believe). Anyways, thoughts?
Eric
========================================================================== Eric Germann Inacom Info Systems ekgermann@cctec.com Lima, OH 45801 Ph: 419 331 9050 ICQ: 41927048 Fax: 419 331 9302
"It is so easy to miss pretty trivial solutions to problems deemed complicated. The goal of a scientist is to find an interesting problem, and live off it for a while. The goal of an engineer is to evade interesting problems :)" -- Vadim Antonov <avg@kotovnik.com> on NANOG
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine. END OF LINE |
participants (7)
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Alan Clegg -
Dan Hollis -
David Lesher -
Eric Germann -
Jared Mauch -
Nathan Stratton -
Steve Dispensa