Does anyone have a comprehensive (or any) list of carriers doing alien wavelengths? (background: https://thecinict.com/2021/03/05/adding-alien-wavelengths/ https://www.ekinops.com/solutions/optical-transport/alien-wavelength ) Emphasis on subsea operators. —L.B. Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO lb@6by7.net <mailto:lb@6by7.net> "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” FCC License KJ6FJJ
Hey, Does anyone have a comprehensive (or any) list of carriers doing alien
wavelengths? (background: https://thecinict.com/2021/03/05/adding-alien-wavelengths/ https://www.ekinops.com/solutions/optical-transport/alien-wavelength )
Emphasis on subsea operators.
I'm going to hazard a guess that the exhaustive list is empty. Allowing 3rd parties to launch alien waves to your system puts your existing waves at the mercy of the 3rd party, power or lack thereof from the alien wave may impact operation of other waves. -- ++ytti
On 7/20/21 4:44 PM, Saku Ytti wrote:
I'm going to hazard a guess that the exhaustive list is empty. Allowing 3rd parties to launch alien waves to your system puts your existing waves at the mercy of the 3rd party, power or lack thereof from the alien wave may impact operation of other waves.
While it might be different for subsea, especially transoceanic, simply due to market factors, I suspect this is the case on most long-haul routes of consequence. Even the carriers I've talked to who have it productized in their sales catalog with documentation as to the responsibilities of all parties essentially refuse to sell it in practice. The only traction I've gotten was if I wanted to buy half the C-band spectrum on a new route not yet lit and was willing to sign a very long-term (20 year-ish) contract for it. Essentially it was treated similar to an IRU on half the bandwidth on the route and came lit end-to-end. They were willing/able to do this since they could use red/blue filters and separate VOAs and OPMs to keep things in check at the entry/exit points of the line system. This isn't really practical if you're dealing with just a couple hundred GHz or have frequent need to add/drop it. -- Brandon Martin
On Tue, Jul 20, 2021, at 22:44, Saku Ytti wrote:
I'm going to hazard a guess that the exhaustive list is empty.
Actually, it's not empty. I know 2 operators in my part of the world that do it in some way or another.
Allowing 3rd parties to launch alien waves to your system puts your existing waves at the mercy of the 3rd party, power or lack thereof from the
There are issues and there are solutions. It's just the solutions may not match the intended price-tag for the desired service (mostly thinking to long-distance alien waves - a.k.a spectrum or channels band - where entry point is very high).
Hi, Alien wavelengths is a fairly old concept and more generally just refers to running any wavelength over a DWDM system that isn't generated by that system's own transponders. These days it is more about leasing spectrum (Spectrum as a Service), but that comes in several different flavours. There is the basic "I want access to 250GHz of C-band to light in whatever way I want", which only tends to happen between consenting networks (e.g. in the R&E space, or between trusted providers), or as trials due to the risks that ytti mentioned. That could be a single contiguous superchannel of spectrum if you have a colourless/flexgrid add/drop system, or 5 x 50GHz individual channels. At the other end of the spectrum (ahem) is managed transponders. This is more suitable for, e.g., the submarine case. You have guaranteed access to a certain amount of spectrum, but the transponders go into the fibre owner's DWDM equipment and are managed by them and you connect to the transponder in much the same way as a traditional circuit. You can theoretically upgrade as newer transponders come out that use spectrum more efficiently, or as demand requires it for a nominal (!) fee to cover the hardware and engineering. There are options between those models, but it's rarely a pricebook item at the moment and will need to be discussed with the providers. It's also usually intended for fairly large requirements. Cheers, Rob
I looked at this before and go far enough in the conversations with one carrier that had sold this as a product before and had a poor experience with the customers they were no longer offering it. You are likely better off getting a volume deal on waves, which can be had for pretty cheap these days. I can get 400g waves from carriers now, the capacity involved is short of what makes sense for IRU long haul. Dark in the metro continues to work out. As Saku mentioned there's significant risks opening up a system even with channel blockers etc to protect each other it hasn't worked out. Ask some carriers about a dedicated managed system in your rack if XC fees are killing you. Sent from my TI-99/4a
On Jul 20, 2021, at 4:35 PM, Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE <lb@6by7.net> wrote:
Does anyone have a comprehensive (or any) list of carriers doing alien wavelengths? (background: https://thecinict.com/2021/03/05/adding-alien-wavelengths/ https://www.ekinops.com/solutions/optical-transport/alien-wavelength )
Emphasis on subsea operators. —L.B.
Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO lb@6by7.net "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” FCC License KJ6FJJ
Hi, Not related to who is using them really but.. The presentation, From Alien Waves to Disaggregated Optical Network by Paolo Boletta from ITNOG3 meeting may be of interest to you. The site contains both the presentation and the ½ hour video. https://www.itnog.it/itnog3/ It covers the use if alienwaves in the Italian and EU Research and education networks Both GARR (italy) and GEANT (EU) have published papers and different reports regarding their results. Brian From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+b.turnbow=twt.it@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 8:30 PM To: NANOG Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Alien waves Does anyone have a comprehensive (or any) list of carriers doing alien wavelengths? (background: https://thecinict.com/2021/03/05/adding-alien-wavelengths/ https://www.ekinops.com/solutions/optical-transport/alien-wavelength ) Emphasis on subsea operators. —L.B. Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO lb@6by7.net<mailto:lb@6by7.net> "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” FCC License KJ6FJJ [cid:245ADEA1-477E-4B5A-989E-9177BDB798AE][cid:B186E2C6-EE26-4B99-A6BD-F71BFE6B78F4]
If your emphasis is on subsea operators, the content providers likely have the most alien wave deployments due to the open cable initiative. With transponders being more plug and play to operate over incumbent subsea line systems, it makes it easier to deploy the latest and greatest hardware; often done via an alien wave. However, some vendors charge licenses for this, negating the benefits. Link below to open cables.... https://www.osapublishing.org/DirectPDFAccess/4BFA8A34-8A01-4140-9C013953862B873F_447458/jlt-39-3-742.pdf?da=1&id=447458&seq=0&mobile=no On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 4:32 PM Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE < lb@6by7.net> wrote:
Does anyone have a comprehensive (or any) list of carriers doing alien wavelengths? (background: https://thecinict.com/2021/03/05/adding-alien-wavelengths/ https://www.ekinops.com/solutions/optical-transport/alien-wavelength )
Emphasis on subsea operators. —L.B.
Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO lb@6by7.net "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” FCC License KJ6FJJ
participants (8)
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Brandon Martin
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Brian Turnbow
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Eve Griliches
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Jared Mauch
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Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
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Radu-Adrian Feurdean
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Rob Evans
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Saku Ytti