AFRINIC placed in receivership
I think this qualifies as potentially operational. Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4 -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph is having problems. This is the original article.
https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
Indeed - AFRINIC has been going through quite a bit over the few months – including loss of their governing board – but the receiver appointment actually provides a fairly straightforward path towards resolution. See the NRO statement on this matter for specifics. Thanks! /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers <https://www.nro.net/nro-statement-on-appointment-of-an-official-receiver-for-afrinic/> NRO Statement on Appointment of an Official Receiver for AFRINIC | The Number Resource Organization<https://www.nro.net/nro-statement-on-appointment-of-an-official-receiver-for-afrinic/> nro.net<https://www.nro.net/nro-statement-on-appointment-of-an-official-receiver-for-afrinic/> [apple-touch-icon-180x180.png] <https://www.nro.net/nro-statement-on-appointment-of-an-official-receiver-for-afrinic/> On Sep 14, 2023, at 3:08 AM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote: On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote: I think this qualifies as potentially operational. Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4 Looks like archive.ph is having problems. This is the original article. https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 9:04 AM John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:
Indeed - AFRINIC has been going through quite a bit over the few months – including loss of their governing board – but the receiver appointment actually provides a fairly straightforward path towards resolution.
See the NRO statement on this matter for specifics.
I don't see the appointment of a technical advisor to the receiver related to the party which is suing AFRINIC as positive. Sounds more like a conflict of interest to me. Rubens
On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:06 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:
Indeed - AFRINIC has been going through quite a bit over the few months – including loss of their governing board – but the receiver appointment actually provides a fairly straightforward path towards resolution.
John, The receiver appointed showed up at AFRINIC offices with an IT contractor who is a party directly involved in ligitations against AFRINIC. How is such an act a fairly straight forward path forward. ? Noah
Noah - Indeed, that was a less than ideal situation – but I will note that the technical advisor was sent away by the Receiver once the Receiver was apprised of his litigation against AFRINIC. Thanks, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:49 AM, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz> wrote: On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:06 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net<mailto:jcurran@arin.net>> wrote: Indeed - AFRINIC has been going through quite a bit over the few months – including loss of their governing board – but the receiver appointment actually provides a fairly straightforward path towards resolution. John, The receiver appointed showed up at AFRINIC offices with an IT contractor who is a party directly involved in ligitations against AFRINIC. How is such an act a fairly straight forward path forward. ? Noah
On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:53 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:
Noah -
Indeed, that was a less than ideal situation – but I will note that the technical advisor was sent away by the Receiver once the Receiver was apprised of his litigation against AFRINIC.
John It was not a less than ideal situation. Please dont take things lightly here. This issue of the so called Technical Advisor showing up with the Official Receiver at AFRINIC offices is a real concern to us considering the lack of transparency by the OR on the matter. Noah
Thanks, /John
John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers
On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:49 AM, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:06 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:
Indeed - AFRINIC has been going through quite a bit over the few months – including loss of their governing board – but the receiver appointment actually provides a fairly straightforward path towards resolution.
John,
The receiver appointed showed up at AFRINIC offices with an IT contractor who is a party directly involved in ligitations against AFRINIC.
How is such an act a fairly straight forward path forward. ?
Noah
Noah - I have had serious concerns with the operational risk posed by AFRINIC’s lack of governance body and lack of CEO – and thus have provided updates to NANOG several times to keep the community informed – but now there is finally a clear path to resolution; a situation that I see as far better than the convolutions of the organization over the past year with zero progress. You indicate that there is a real concern with the appointment of a receiver for AFRINIC – despite the fact that the receiver is directed by the court to hold an election for a new board of directors within six months. (Prior to this appointment, there has been no progress in getting AFRINIC back to normal member-elected governance – while one might have expected the individual directors to work together to achieve this outcome, that did not occur.) Could you elaborate on the "real concern” that now exists so that operator community can better understand? The receiver may not operate transparently with respect to the community, but does operate under court supervision and authority – I concur that this isn’t the typical way that we’d like an RIR to operate, but it is quite reasonable stricture for an organization that remains inquorate for nearly a year. Thanks, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers On Sep 15, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz> wrote: On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:53 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net<mailto:jcurran@arin.net>> wrote: Noah - Indeed, that was a less than ideal situation – but I will note that the technical advisor was sent away by the Receiver once the Receiver was apprised of his litigation against AFRINIC. John It was not a less than ideal situation. Please dont take things lightly here. This issue of the so called Technical Advisor showing up with the Official Receiver at AFRINIC offices is a real concern to us considering the lack of transparency by the OR on the matter. Noah Thanks, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:49 AM, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz<mailto:noah@neo.co.tz>> wrote: On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:06 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net<mailto:jcurran@arin.net>> wrote: Indeed - AFRINIC has been going through quite a bit over the few months – including loss of their governing board – but the receiver appointment actually provides a fairly straightforward path towards resolution. John, The receiver appointed showed up at AFRINIC offices with an IT contractor who is a party directly involved in ligitations against AFRINIC. How is such an act a fairly straight forward path forward. ? Noah
Are amicus briefs a thing in the court governing AFRINIC's operations? Le 15 septembre 2023 15:27:33 UTC, John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> a écrit :
Noah -
I have had serious concerns with the operational risk posed by AFRINIC’s lack of governance body and lack of CEO – and thus have provided updates to NANOG several times to keep the community informed – but now there is finally a clear path to resolution; a situation that I see as far better than the convolutions of the organization over the past year with zero progress.
You indicate that there is a real concern with the appointment of a receiver for AFRINIC – despite the fact that the receiver is directed by the court to hold an election for a new board of directors within six months.
(Prior to this appointment, there has been no progress in getting AFRINIC back to normal member-elected governance – while one might have expected the individual directors to work together to achieve this outcome, that did not occur.)
Could you elaborate on the "real concern” that now exists so that operator community can better understand? The receiver may not operate transparently with respect to the community, but does operate under court supervision and authority – I concur that this isn’t the typical way that we’d like an RIR to operate, but it is quite reasonable stricture for an organization that remains inquorate for nearly a year.
Thanks, /John
John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers
On Sep 15, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:53 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net<mailto:jcurran@arin.net>> wrote: Noah -
Indeed, that was a less than ideal situation – but I will note that the technical advisor was sent away by the Receiver once the Receiver was apprised of his litigation against AFRINIC.
John
It was not a less than ideal situation. Please dont take things lightly here.
This issue of the so called Technical Advisor showing up with the Official Receiver at AFRINIC offices is a real concern to us considering the lack of transparency by the OR on the matter.
Noah
Thanks, /John
John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers
On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:49 AM, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz<mailto:noah@neo.co.tz>> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:06 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net<mailto:jcurran@arin.net>> wrote: Indeed - AFRINIC has been going through quite a bit over the few months – including loss of their governing board – but the receiver appointment actually provides a fairly straightforward path towards resolution.
John,
The receiver appointed showed up at AFRINIC offices with an IT contractor who is a party directly involved in ligitations against AFRINIC.
How is such an act a fairly straight forward path forward. ?
Noah
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
That’s a legal question, and so should be answered by a lawyer of competent jurisdiction… I am not such an individual, but I do understand that for parties that have a bona fide business interest with AFRINIC, it should be possible to contact the honorable receiver in order to obtain clarity on how any given matter will be handled. Hope this helps, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers
On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:39 AM, Collider <large.hadron.collider@gmx.com> wrote:
Are amicus briefs a thing in the court governing AFRINIC's operations?
Le 15 septembre 2023 15:27:33 UTC, John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> a écrit :
Noah -
I have had serious concerns with the operational risk posed by AFRINIC’s lack of governance body and lack of CEO – and thus have provided updates to NANOG several times to keep the community informed – but now there is finally a clear path to resolution; a situation that I see as far better than the convolutions of the organization over the past year with zero progress.
You indicate that there is a real concern with the appointment of a receiver for AFRINIC – despite the fact that the receiver is directed by the court to hold an election for a new board of directors within six months.
(Prior to this appointment, there has been no progress in getting AFRINIC back to normal member-elected governance – while one might have expected the individual directors to work together to achieve this outcome, that did not occur.)
Could you elaborate on the "real concern” that now exists so that operator community can better understand? The receiver may not operate transparently with respect to the community, but does operate under court supervision and authority – I concur that this isn’t the typical way that we’d like an RIR to operate, but it is quite reasonable stricture for an organization that remains inquorate for nearly a year.
Thanks, /John
John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers
On Sep 15, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:53 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net <mailto:jcurran@arin.net>> wrote:
Noah -
Indeed, that was a less than ideal situation – but I will note that the technical advisor was sent away by the Receiver once the Receiver was apprised of his litigation against AFRINIC.
John
It was not a less than ideal situation. Please dont take things lightly here.
This issue of the so called Technical Advisor showing up with the Official Receiver at AFRINIC offices is a real concern to us considering the lack of transparency by the OR on the matter.
Noah
Thanks, /John
John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers
On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:49 AM, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz <mailto:noah@neo.co.tz>> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:06 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net <mailto:jcurran@arin.net>> wrote:
Indeed - AFRINIC has been going through quite a bit over the few months – including loss of their governing board – but the receiver appointment actually provides a fairly straightforward path towards resolution.
John,
The receiver appointed showed up at AFRINIC offices with an IT contractor who is a party directly involved in ligitations against AFRINIC.
How is such an act a fairly straight forward path forward. ?
Noah
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On Sep 15, 2023, at 06:30, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:53 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net <mailto:jcurran@arin.net>> wrote:
Noah -
Indeed, that was a less than ideal situation – but I will note that the technical advisor was sent away by the Receiver once the Receiver was apprised of his litigation against AFRINIC.
John
It was not a less than ideal situation. Please dont take things lightly here.
Not less than ideal? So was it ideal or more than ideal? Owen
* nanog@nanog.org (Owen DeLong via NANOG) [Fri 15 Sep 2023, 19:26 CEST]:
On Sep 15, 2023, at 06:30, Noah <noah@neo.co.tz> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sept 2023, 15:53 John Curran, <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:
Indeed, that was a less than ideal situation – but I will note that the technical advisor was sent away by the Receiver once the Receiver was apprised of his litigation against AFRINIC.
It was not a less than ideal situation. Please dont take things lightly here.
Not less than ideal? So was it ideal or more than ideal?
I'd like to introduce you to a linguistic concept called the understatement. -- Niels.
A much better explanation of the situation can be found at: https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/nrs_afrinic_review/ I also recommend that everyone who is not yet familiar with the issue google Lu Heng and Cloud Innovations, the Hong Kong based corporate entity in question which caused this. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation The short version of this is that a HK based corporate entity claims it is the legitimate "owner" of 7 million AFRINIC IPs. On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 6:09 AM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph is having problems. This is the original article.
https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
XX was running for a Board Seat at APNIC and may have been in attendance in the recent APNIC conference. Very controversial stuff there, with lessons to be learned and remembered and situations to be avoided at all costs. Corruption and $$$$$$$. On 9/15/2023 3:05 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
A much better explanation of the situation can be found at:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/nrs_afrinic_review/
I also recommend that everyone who is not yet familiar with the issue google Lu Heng and Cloud Innovations, the Hong Kong based corporate entity in question which caused this.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation <https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation>
The short version of this is that a HK based corporate entity claims it is the legitimate "owner" of 7 million AFRINIC IPs.
On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 6:09 AM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote: > I think this qualifies as potentially operational. > > Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: > https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph <http://archive.ph> is having problems. This is the original article.
> https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
On Sep 15, 2023, at 15:05, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
A much better explanation of the situation can be found at:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/nrs_afrinic_review/
I also recommend that everyone who is not yet familiar with the issue google Lu Heng and Cloud Innovations, the Hong Kong based corporate entity in question which caused this.
Fair suggestion, but I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say Lu Heng or CI caused this. I’d say that AFRINIC’s leadership at the time had an at least equal role in creating the problems and in failing to address Them in a timely manner. CI didn’t sue AFRINIC for nothing. AFRINIC, in violation of the actual text of their bylaws attempted to revoke CI space and created major disruptions to a number of networks in the process. Had CI not received the injunctions they got from the courts, likely the disruption would have been much worse and caused some pretty wide-spread outages.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation
The short version of this is that a HK based corporate entity claims it is the legitimate "owner" of 7 million AFRINIC IPs.
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses. AFRINIC whois and the courts have confirmed that Cloud Innovation is the rightful registrant of those addresses at the time and as of now. Until a court rules otherwise (which is very unlikely at this point), they don’t “own” the addresses, but they do “own” the rights to those registrations in the AFRINIC database. (Nobody “owns” any integers… Everyone remains equally free to use the number 5 as much as they want.) Owen
On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 6:09 AM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net <mailto:Bryan@bryanfields.net>> wrote:
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph <http://archive.ph/> is having problems. This is the original article.
https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net <http://bryanfields.net/>
CI didn’t sue AFRINIC for nothing. AFRINIC, in violation of the actual text of their bylaws attempted to revoke CI space and created major disruptions to a number of networks in the process. Had CI not received the injunctions they got from the courts, likely the disruption would have been much worse and caused some pretty wide-spread outages.
If a car is stolen and then used to provide ride sharing services, when the repo man comes along, it will cause disruption to those ride sharing services. Rubens
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
This is not what happened. AFRINIC issued those IP addresses to Cloud Innovations based on fundamental misrepresentations by the applicant and internal fraudulent activity conducted by a single employee within AFRINIC. On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:17 PM Delong.com <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Sep 15, 2023, at 15:05, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
A much better explanation of the situation can be found at:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/nrs_afrinic_review/
I also recommend that everyone who is not yet familiar with the issue google Lu Heng and Cloud Innovations, the Hong Kong based corporate entity in question which caused this.
Fair suggestion, but I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say Lu Heng or CI caused this. I’d say that AFRINIC’s leadership at the time had an at least equal role in creating the problems and in failing to address Them in a timely manner.
CI didn’t sue AFRINIC for nothing. AFRINIC, in violation of the actual text of their bylaws attempted to revoke CI space and created major disruptions to a number of networks in the process. Had CI not received the injunctions they got from the courts, likely the disruption would have been much worse and caused some pretty wide-spread outages.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation
The short version of this is that a HK based corporate entity claims it is the legitimate "owner" of 7 million AFRINIC IPs.
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
AFRINIC whois and the courts have confirmed that Cloud Innovation is the rightful registrant of those addresses at the time and as of now. Until a court rules otherwise (which is very unlikely at this point), they don’t “own” the addresses, but they do “own” the rights to those registrations in the AFRINIC database.
(Nobody “owns” any integers… Everyone remains equally free to use the number 5 as much as they want.)
Owen
On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 6:09 AM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph is having problems. This is the original article.
https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/international/1813989-the-strange-case-... https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Ernest+Byaruhanga+afrinic On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:30 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
This is not what happened. AFRINIC issued those IP addresses to Cloud Innovations based on fundamental misrepresentations by the applicant and internal fraudulent activity conducted by a single employee within AFRINIC.
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:17 PM Delong.com <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Sep 15, 2023, at 15:05, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
A much better explanation of the situation can be found at:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/nrs_afrinic_review/
I also recommend that everyone who is not yet familiar with the issue google Lu Heng and Cloud Innovations, the Hong Kong based corporate entity in question which caused this.
Fair suggestion, but I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say Lu Heng or CI caused this. I’d say that AFRINIC’s leadership at the time had an at least equal role in creating the problems and in failing to address Them in a timely manner.
CI didn’t sue AFRINIC for nothing. AFRINIC, in violation of the actual text of their bylaws attempted to revoke CI space and created major disruptions to a number of networks in the process. Had CI not received the injunctions they got from the courts, likely the disruption would have been much worse and caused some pretty wide-spread outages.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation
The short version of this is that a HK based corporate entity claims it is the legitimate "owner" of 7 million AFRINIC IPs.
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
AFRINIC whois and the courts have confirmed that Cloud Innovation is the rightful registrant of those addresses at the time and as of now. Until a court rules otherwise (which is very unlikely at this point), they don’t “own” the addresses, but they do “own” the rights to those registrations in the AFRINIC database.
(Nobody “owns” any integers… Everyone remains equally free to use the number 5 as much as they want.)
Owen
On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 6:09 AM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph is having problems. This is the original article.
https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
Noe… You are conflating two completely different cases, sir. CI submitted legitimate applications and their addresses were issued prior to Ernest’s activities. You’re mixing Lu Heng up with Elad Cohen. Owen
On Sep 15, 2023, at 16:32, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/international/1813989-the-strange-case-...
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Ernest+Byaruhanga+afrinic
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:30 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com <mailto:eric.kuhnke@gmail.com>> wrote:
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
This is not what happened. AFRINIC issued those IP addresses to Cloud Innovations based on fundamental misrepresentations by the applicant and internal fraudulent activity conducted by a single employee within AFRINIC.
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:17 PM Delong.com <owen@delong.com <mailto:owen@delong.com>> wrote:
On Sep 15, 2023, at 15:05, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com <mailto:eric.kuhnke@gmail.com>> wrote:
A much better explanation of the situation can be found at:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/nrs_afrinic_review/
I also recommend that everyone who is not yet familiar with the issue google Lu Heng and Cloud Innovations, the Hong Kong based corporate entity in question which caused this.
Fair suggestion, but I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say Lu Heng or CI caused this. I’d say that AFRINIC’s leadership at the time had an at least equal role in creating the problems and in failing to address Them in a timely manner.
CI didn’t sue AFRINIC for nothing. AFRINIC, in violation of the actual text of their bylaws attempted to revoke CI space and created major disruptions to a number of networks in the process. Had CI not received the injunctions they got from the courts, likely the disruption would have been much worse and caused some pretty wide-spread outages.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation
The short version of this is that a HK based corporate entity claims it is the legitimate "owner" of 7 million AFRINIC IPs.
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
AFRINIC whois and the courts have confirmed that Cloud Innovation is the rightful registrant of those addresses at the time and as of now. Until a court rules otherwise (which is very unlikely at this point), they don’t “own” the addresses, but they do “own” the rights to those registrations in the AFRINIC database.
(Nobody “owns” any integers… Everyone remains equally free to use the number 5 as much as they want.)
Owen
On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 6:09 AM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net <mailto:Bryan@bryanfields.net>> wrote:
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph <http://archive.ph/> is having problems. This is the original article.
https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net <http://bryanfields.net/>
I'm not quite sure that we agree on the meaning of "legitimate application" when a HK based corporate entity is using and claiming permanent rights to AFRINIC IP space, primarily for ISP operations in east asia. There have been multiple well documented instances of AFRINIC insiders with privileged access shoveling IP space out the back door by less than legitimate means. For a number of different suspicious recipients. Undoubtedly this is part of what contributed to its board members and management fleeing the organization in the face of litigation and investigations. The fact that these organizations that received IP space by less than honest means are now suing AFRINIC into financial oblivion honestly does not help the situation. On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 5:04 PM Delong.com <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Noe… You are conflating two completely different cases, sir.
CI submitted legitimate applications and their addresses were issued prior to Ernest’s activities.
You’re mixing Lu Heng up with Elad Cohen.
Owen
On Sep 15, 2023, at 16:32, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/international/1813989-the-strange-case-...
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Ernest+Byaruhanga+afrinic
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:30 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
This is not what happened. AFRINIC issued those IP addresses to Cloud Innovations based on fundamental misrepresentations by the applicant and internal fraudulent activity conducted by a single employee within AFRINIC.
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:17 PM Delong.com <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Sep 15, 2023, at 15:05, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
A much better explanation of the situation can be found at:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/nrs_afrinic_review/
I also recommend that everyone who is not yet familiar with the issue google Lu Heng and Cloud Innovations, the Hong Kong based corporate entity in question which caused this.
Fair suggestion, but I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say Lu Heng or CI caused this. I’d say that AFRINIC’s leadership at the time had an at least equal role in creating the problems and in failing to address Them in a timely manner.
CI didn’t sue AFRINIC for nothing. AFRINIC, in violation of the actual text of their bylaws attempted to revoke CI space and created major disruptions to a number of networks in the process. Had CI not received the injunctions they got from the courts, likely the disruption would have been much worse and caused some pretty wide-spread outages.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation
The short version of this is that a HK based corporate entity claims it is the legitimate "owner" of 7 million AFRINIC IPs.
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
AFRINIC whois and the courts have confirmed that Cloud Innovation is the rightful registrant of those addresses at the time and as of now. Until a court rules otherwise (which is very unlikely at this point), they don’t “own” the addresses, but they do “own” the rights to those registrations in the AFRINIC database.
(Nobody “owns” any integers… Everyone remains equally free to use the number 5 as much as they want.)
Owen
On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 6:09 AM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph is having problems. This is the original article.
https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
My point exactly! And it's so shameful that we have people trying to defend them by throwing laws,bylaws, management blah blah..spoof coof attacks on AFRINIC processes. We are not happy with the current situation and the member should be awareness and we also noticed how rogue that member is during the election period. On Sat, 16 Sept 2023, 13:19 Eric Kuhnke, <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not quite sure that we agree on the meaning of "legitimate application" when a HK based corporate entity is using and claiming permanent rights to AFRINIC IP space, primarily for ISP operations in east asia.
There have been multiple well documented instances of AFRINIC insiders with privileged access shoveling IP space out the back door by less than legitimate means. For a number of different suspicious recipients.
Undoubtedly this is part of what contributed to its board members and management fleeing the organization in the face of litigation and investigations.
The fact that these organizations that received IP space by less than honest means are now suing AFRINIC into financial oblivion honestly does not help the situation.
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 5:04 PM Delong.com <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Noe… You are conflating two completely different cases, sir.
CI submitted legitimate applications and their addresses were issued prior to Ernest’s activities.
You’re mixing Lu Heng up with Elad Cohen.
Owen
On Sep 15, 2023, at 16:32, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/international/1813989-the-strange-case-...
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Ernest+Byaruhanga+afrinic
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:30 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
This is not what happened. AFRINIC issued those IP addresses to Cloud Innovations based on fundamental misrepresentations by the applicant and internal fraudulent activity conducted by a single employee within AFRINIC.
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:17 PM Delong.com <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Sep 15, 2023, at 15:05, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
A much better explanation of the situation can be found at:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/nrs_afrinic_review/
I also recommend that everyone who is not yet familiar with the issue google Lu Heng and Cloud Innovations, the Hong Kong based corporate entity in question which caused this.
Fair suggestion, but I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say Lu Heng or CI caused this. I’d say that AFRINIC’s leadership at the time had an at least equal role in creating the problems and in failing to address Them in a timely manner.
CI didn’t sue AFRINIC for nothing. AFRINIC, in violation of the actual text of their bylaws attempted to revoke CI space and created major disruptions to a number of networks in the process. Had CI not received the injunctions they got from the courts, likely the disruption would have been much worse and caused some pretty wide-spread outages.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation
The short version of this is that a HK based corporate entity claims it is the legitimate "owner" of 7 million AFRINIC IPs.
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
AFRINIC whois and the courts have confirmed that Cloud Innovation is the rightful registrant of those addresses at the time and as of now. Until a court rules otherwise (which is very unlikely at this point), they don’t “own” the addresses, but they do “own” the rights to those registrations in the AFRINIC database.
(Nobody “owns” any integers… Everyone remains equally free to use the number 5 as much as they want.)
Owen
On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 6:09 AM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph is having problems. This is the original article.
https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 AM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/international/1813989-the-strange-case-...
"When African ISPs allocate IP addresses to all those new electronic devices, they will not be using the legacy IPv4 addresses AFRINIC is currently risking its existence over. Instead, they will be allocating <https://theconversation.com/heres-why-the-internet-will-always-have-enough-space-for-all-our-devices-122559> the IPv6 addresses that represent the future of the Internet, both inside and outside Africa." *whew* OK, that was a good laugh. I needed some humour to start my day off. ;P Sorry--any article that ignores the non-starting aspect of IPv6-only connectivity isn't worth the electrons it's (not) printed on. :/ The sad fact of the Internet today is that without at least *some* IPv4 addresses, you're not on the Internet. Sure, you can do 464XLAT and other things like that to *minimize* the amount of IPv4 addresses you need, but you can't run a pure IPv6-only network today for consumer use; there's too much of the Internet you just can't access without at least some IPv4 presence. And as such, that means that every ISP, every company that wants to be multihomed to more than one upstream provider requires allocations of *both* IPv4 and IPv6 addresses in order to be functional. I think it's an ugly situation all around, but from my reading of the Consolidated Resource Policy Manual, what Cloud Innovations did is clearly against the intent stated in the AFRINIC policy manual: "5.4.6.2 AFRINIC resources are for AFRINIC service region and any use outside the region should be solely in support of connectivity back to the AFRINIC region." That clause has been in the AFRINIC Consolidated Policy Resource Manual since version 0.1, published nearly a decade ago in 2014. https://afrinic.net/cpm-0-1 Now, if I had been involved in crafting the policy document, I would have strongly recommended that the particular clause be included in section 5.2, rather than 5.4, as it really should have been broadly applicable no matter what phase of exhaustion the IPv4 pool happened to be in at the time. By tucking it in under 5.4, in the "Soft Landing" portion of the document, it wrapped the regional requirement under a relatively restrictive scope: "This IPv4 Soft Landing policy applies to the management of address space that will be available to AFRINIC after the current IPv4 pool is depleted. The purpose of this document is to ensure that address space is assigned and/or allocated in a manner that is acceptable to the AFRINIC community especially during this time of IPv4 exhaustion." Had policy 5.4.6.2 instead been policy 5.2.1.5, this would be a moot discussion, and Cloud Innovations would clearly be in the wrong, and AFRINIC would be clearly justified in clawing the number resources back. However, because the regional use restriction was tucked under the rubric of the "applies to the management of address space that will be available to AFRINIC *after* the current IPv4 pool is depleted" stipulation (emphasis mine), it leaves the argument open that until AFRINIC completely exhausted its available IPv4 pool, no such regional restriction should apply. I do not envy either party in this fight. But if nothing else, it can provide guidance on why number policy matters, and why it is useful to have contrarians that look at every clause and wonder "could this be abused in a way we hadn't considered?" ^_^; Matt
AFRINIC has the right to reclaim those resources should it prove that usage of such is not in any way beneficial to the continent in which it's mandated to operate and support. We will not defend CI or Lu Heng for persisting in this, we the members felt it's a blackmail and the action taken by AFRNIC was in good faith. Anyone supporting such actions as those taken by CI and its sympathizers is against democracy and fair utilization/usage of global number resources and by extension; I dare say, not a Mandolorian. This is the way! On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 2:20 AM Delong.com via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
On Sep 15, 2023, at 15:05, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
A much better explanation of the situation can be found at:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/nrs_afrinic_review/
I also recommend that everyone who is not yet familiar with the issue google Lu Heng and Cloud Innovations, the Hong Kong based corporate entity in question which caused this.
Fair suggestion, but I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say Lu Heng or CI caused this. I’d say that AFRINIC’s leadership at the time had an at least equal role in creating the problems and in failing to address Them in a timely manner.
CI didn’t sue AFRINIC for nothing. AFRINIC, in violation of the actual text of their bylaws attempted to revoke CI space and created major disruptions to a number of networks in the process. Had CI not received the injunctions they got from the courts, likely the disruption would have been much worse and caused some pretty wide-spread outages.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=lu+heng+cloud+innovation
The short version of this is that a HK based corporate entity claims it is the legitimate "owner" of 7 million AFRINIC IPs.
AFRINIC legitimately issued those (closer to 6M) IP addresses to Cloud Innovation based on justifications submitted. AFRINIC then attempted, using claims that usage out of region is not permitted by the bylaws (It is not prohibited by the bylaws, feel free to read them yourself), to reclaim those addresses.
AFRINIC whois and the courts have confirmed that Cloud Innovation is the rightful registrant of those addresses at the time and as of now. Until a court rules otherwise (which is very unlikely at this point), they don’t “own” the addresses, but they do “own” the rights to those registrations in the AFRINIC database.
(Nobody “owns” any integers… Everyone remains equally free to use the number 5 as much as they want.)
Owen
On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 6:09 AM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 9/13/23 9:27 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4
Looks like archive.ph is having problems. This is the original article.
https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2c6pnx4ymt7sd5c493wg0/news/exclusive-a... -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
Somewhat related (at least one of the principals is the same) and perhaps of interest to some here. While I have strong opinions on the topic, provided without comment: https://www.gofundme.com/f/supporting-and-protecting-internet-governance Regards, -drc
On Sep 13, 2023, at 6:27 PM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4 -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
Layer 8: People Layer 9: Money Layer 10: Lawyers. Cheers, -- jra ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Conrad" <drc@virtualized.org> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 6:46:31 PM Subject: Legal system as a weapon (was Re: AFRINIC placed in receivership)
Somewhat related (at least one of the principals is the same) and perhaps of interest to some here. While I have strong opinions on the topic, provided without comment:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/supporting-and-protecting-internet-governance
Regards, -drc
On Sep 13, 2023, at 6:27 PM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4 -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
-- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
The seven lawyers of the OSI model 1: Family lawyer (where it all starts) 2: Admiralty lawyer 3: Intellectual Property lawyer (because, of course) 4. Immigration lawyer 5. Real Estate lawyer 6. Entertainment lawyer 7. Labor lawyer -mel On Sep 29, 2023, at 10:03 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote: Layer 8: People Layer 9: Money Layer 10: Lawyers. Cheers, -- jra ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Conrad" <drc@virtualized.org> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 6:46:31 PM Subject: Legal system as a weapon (was Re: AFRINIC placed in receivership) Somewhat related (at least one of the principals is the same) and perhaps of interest to some here. While I have strong opinions on the topic, provided without comment: https://www.gofundme.com/f/supporting-and-protecting-internet-governance Regards, -drc On Sep 13, 2023, at 6:27 PM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote: I think this qualifies as potentially operational. Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4 -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Sep 29, 2023, at 11:20 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
The seven lawyers of the OSI model
1: Family lawyer (where it all starts) 2: Admiralty lawyer 3: Intellectual Property lawyer (because, of course) 4. Immigration lawyer 5. Real Estate lawyer 6. Entertainment lawyer 7. Labor lawyer
You forgot Estate Planning lawyer and, of course, email law and policy lawyer. :-) Anne --- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Email Law & Policy Attorney CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy (ISIPP) Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing law) Creator of the term 'deliverability' and founder of the deliverability industry Author: The Email Deliverability Handbook Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
Just like a lawyer, trying to add layers to the model. :) -mel
On Sep 30, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Anne Mitchell <amitchell@isipp.com> wrote:
On Sep 29, 2023, at 11:20 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
The seven lawyers of the OSI model
1: Family lawyer (where it all starts) 2: Admiralty lawyer 3: Intellectual Property lawyer (because, of course) 4. Immigration lawyer 5. Real Estate lawyer 6. Entertainment lawyer 7. Labor lawyer
You forgot Estate Planning lawyer and, of course, email law and policy lawyer. :-)
Anne
--- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Email Law & Policy Attorney CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy (ISIPP) Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing law) Creator of the term 'deliverability' and founder of the deliverability industry Author: The Email Deliverability Handbook Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
Lol Le 30 septembre 2023 19:49:29 UTC, Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> a écrit :
Just like a lawyer, trying to add layers to the model. :)
-mel
On Sep 30, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Anne Mitchell <amitchell@isipp.com> wrote:
On Sep 29, 2023, at 11:20 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
The seven lawyers of the OSI model
1: Family lawyer (where it all starts) 2: Admiralty lawyer 3: Intellectual Property lawyer (because, of course) 4. Immigration lawyer 5. Real Estate lawyer 6. Entertainment lawyer 7. Labor lawyer
You forgot Estate Planning lawyer and, of course, email law and policy lawyer. :-)
Anne
--- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Email Law & Policy Attorney CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy (ISIPP) Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing law) Creator of the term 'deliverability' and founder of the deliverability industry Author: The Email Deliverability Handbook Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
:-)
On Sep 30, 2023, at 1:49 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
Just like a lawyer, trying to add layers to the model. :)
-mel
On Sep 30, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Anne Mitchell <amitchell@isipp.com> wrote:
On Sep 29, 2023, at 11:20 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
The seven lawyers of the OSI model
1: Family lawyer (where it all starts) 2: Admiralty lawyer 3: Intellectual Property lawyer (because, of course) 4. Immigration lawyer 5. Real Estate lawyer 6. Entertainment lawyer 7. Labor lawyer
You forgot Estate Planning lawyer and, of course, email law and policy lawyer. :-)
Anne
--- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Email Law & Policy Attorney CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy (ISIPP) Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing law) Creator of the term 'deliverability' and founder of the deliverability industry Author: The Email Deliverability Handbook Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
😁😆 On Sat, 30 Sep 2023, 06:03 Jay R. Ashworth, <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Layer 8: People
Layer 9: Money
Layer 10: Lawyers.
Cheers, -- jra
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Conrad" <drc@virtualized.org> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 6:46:31 PM Subject: Legal system as a weapon (was Re: AFRINIC placed in receivership)
Somewhat related (at least one of the principals is the same) and perhaps of interest to some here. While I have strong opinions on the topic, provided without comment:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/supporting-and-protecting-internet-governance
Regards, -drc
On Sep 13, 2023, at 6:27 PM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4 -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
-- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
Hi David Thanks for sharing this. So, its seems like Lu is continuing with his legal intimadations across other RIR regions. Christopher Hawker, should not be intimidated. I was the first internet community members to be sued by Lu and I believe Amin was the second and Brian and Benedict cases followed across the AFRINIC region who also faced similar legal suits. Some of the defamation cases across various high courts have since been dismissed after over one year litigations and defending ourselves. I personally never thought of seeking support from anyone as no one came to offer it. But I remained positive with my legal counsel who was able to take up the case within my means and continued to legally represent me and defend me within my financial means. I believe the same is true for both Amin in Nigeria, Brian in Malawi and Benedict in TZ. We believe in what we stand for across Africa in as far as AFRINIC is concerned and it is worthwhile experience for the future of Africa for we understand how digital transformation has impacted out continent with the small IPv4 space that was allocated to us by IANA when AFRINIC was formed. We have managed to do something with it in the last decades to transform out continent and no bully shall deter us from the noble cause. In any case, all the best to Christopher Hawker and in case you need some ideas or references on how to go about Lu, please reach out. Noah On Fri, 29 Sept 2023, 01:48 David Conrad, <drc@virtualized.org> wrote:
Somewhat related (at least one of the principals is the same) and perhaps of interest to some here. While I have strong opinions on the topic, provided without comment:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/supporting-and-protecting-internet-governance
Regards, -drc
On Sep 13, 2023, at 6:27 PM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I think this qualifies as potentially operational.
Afrinic placed in receivership, board elections to be held in six months: https://archive.ph/jOFE4 -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
participants (18)
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Anne Mitchell -
Bryan Fields -
Collider -
David Conrad -
Delong.com -
Delron Troy -
Eric Kuhnke -
Jay R. Ashworth -
John Curran -
John Curran -
Matthew Petach -
Mel Beckman -
Niels Bakker -
Noah -
Owen DeLong
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Pascal Masha -
Rubens Kuhl -
Steve Sullivan