Cable-Tying with Waxed Twine
Hey all, This seems a wee bit off topic, but definitely relates to network operations (somewhere below layer 1) and I can't think of a better place to ask. Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool. I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck. I was wondering if any of the gurus out there would care to share what this knot-pattern is actually called, and/or if there's a (illustrated) howto somewhere? -Dan "Tired of getting scratched up by jagged cable ties" Mahoney -- --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org ---------------------------
It's called cable lacing... And CO guys have done it forever. Looks really pretty, but it's a pain in the butt to do. :) And sucks if you have to rip a cable out to replace things. Other than that, check out: http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/ Cheers, Scott PS. A really good pair of flush cuts (wire snips, but not the "diamond-cut" ones) will help with the tie wraps too! -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Dan Mahoney, System Admin Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:30 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Cable-Tying with Waxed Twine Hey all, This seems a wee bit off topic, but definitely relates to network operations (somewhere below layer 1) and I can't think of a better place to ask. Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool. I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck. I was wondering if any of the gurus out there would care to share what this knot-pattern is actually called, and/or if there's a (illustrated) howto somewhere? -Dan "Tired of getting scratched up by jagged cable ties" Mahoney -- --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org ---------------------------
Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
Hey all,
This seems a wee bit off topic, but definitely relates to network operations (somewhere below layer 1) and I can't think of a better place to ask.
Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool.
I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck. I was wondering if any of the gurus out there would care to share what this knot-pattern is actually called, and/or if there's a (illustrated) howto somewhere?
-Dan "Tired of getting scratched up by jagged cable ties" Mahoney
Best site I have seen so far: http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Rubin Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:50 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Cable-Tying with Waxed Twine
Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
Hey all,
This seems a wee bit off topic, but definitely relates to network operations (somewhere below layer 1) and I can't think of a better place to ask.
Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug
in
the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool.
I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had
little
luck. I was wondering if any of the gurus out there would care to share what this knot-pattern is actually called, and/or if there's a (illustrated) howto somewhere?
-Dan "Tired of getting scratched up by jagged cable ties" Mahoney
Best site I have seen so far: http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
I have recently fallen in love with lacing. It is definitely a very clean method of securing cables, and is an art form that seems to be dying with old telco guys. There are a couple of different stitches, including the Chicago and Kansas city stitch. The best cord to use is a 6 ply poly lacing cord that can be purchased from western filament, inc. part#9PRT125W. I believe that it is about $7.00 per half pound roll, with a $50 minimum order. Check out chapter 5 of the following Qwest technical publication for details on how to tie the knots. http://www.qwest.com/techpub/77350/77350.pdf On another off topic note, does anyone know the origin of including mints with telco rack gear? I often see this in rack screw bags, shelves, adaptors, etc.. -Chris
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Chris Cahill wrote:
On another off topic note, does anyone know the origin of including mints with telco rack gear? I often see this in rack screw bags, shelves, adaptors, etc..
when you get stuck in a DC all damned night you get stinky breath, it's a hint from your 'friends'... :)
Oh, just a small note on this topic... Lacing (or even zip tying) doesn't really help a great deal for tracability and whatnot unless you at least do a rough job of combing out cables. In fact, failing to do so when you're tying cables down can kink cables and actually lead to failures since many people haev a tendancy to overtighten laces. On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 04:49:43PM -0800, Steve Rubin wrote:
Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
Hey all,
This seems a wee bit off topic, but definitely relates to network operations (somewhere below layer 1) and I can't think of a better place to ask.
Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool.
I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck. I was wondering if any of the gurus out there would care to share what this knot-pattern is actually called, and/or if there's a (illustrated) howto somewhere?
-Dan "Tired of getting scratched up by jagged cable ties" Mahoney
Best site I have seen so far: http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:30:06PM -0500, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool.
I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck. I was wondering if any of the gurus out there would care to share what this knot-pattern is actually called, and/or if there's a (illustrated) howto somewhere?
From your description, it sounds like you might be describing a series of half hitches. I don't know if it has a more specific title than that. If you wanted to create it on (say) a vertical bundle, you just pass the line around the back of the bundle then put the working end between the line and the bundle, and tighten by pulling away from the knots you've already tied. Repeat this over and over up (or down) the bundle to get your nice pattern happening.
A benefit of this knot is that if you pull the working end towards the knots you've already tied, the knot will slide back, so you can tie each knot quickly then pull it back to the right position, so you get a nice even run of loops. You'll need to secure each end of the line with something that can stand tension at a sharp angle. A quick examination of pikiwedia's knots list suggests something like an icicle hitch or rolling hitch, but they might be a bit tricky to tie in tight spaces. I've just tried two half hitches on a broomstick and it doesn't hold too badly, but I wouldn't guarantee it'll be safe long term. As to the line to use, I'd imagine that an office supplies store would probably have a range of possibilities. - Matt -- "I have a cat, so I know that when she digs her very sharp claws into my chest or stomach it's really a sign of affection, but I don't see any reason for programming languages to show affection with pain." -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp
On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:30:06PM -0500, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: [...]
I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. [...] I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck.
The kind my vendor was able to get was flat (not the normal stuff). As far as I know, this stuff is usually surprisingly expensive and / or comes in large cases. You might just see if the people at your colo can give you a roll or two, or ask where they order theirs (last time I asked, they bought it by the case). I believe this is the stuff I have: http://www.edmo.com/index.php?module=products&func=display&prod_id=20352 I got it from a local outfit (Danbru - http://danbru.com - great Socal vendor) at ~ $35/roll, which seemed exorbitant to me. w
I order it from www.tecratools.com, you can also get the lacing needles and everything else you might need: A somewhat decent resource: http://www.tecratools.com/pages/tecalert/cable_lacing.html Needles and lace: http://www.tecratools.com/pages/telecom/cable_tools.html I have seen some Qwest and BellSouth technical documents which go into a little more detail of how they expect it to be done, but go find someone who's done any kind of cabling in a CO and they can teach you :) -- Tim On 1/24/07, William Yardley <nanog@veggiechinese.net> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:30:06PM -0500, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
[...]
I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. [...] I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck.
The kind my vendor was able to get was flat (not the normal stuff). As far as I know, this stuff is usually surprisingly expensive and / or comes in large cases. You might just see if the people at your colo can give you a roll or two, or ask where they order theirs (last time I asked, they bought it by the case).
I believe this is the stuff I have: http://www.edmo.com/index.php?module=products&func=display&prod_id=20352
I got it from a local outfit (Danbru - http://danbru.com - great Socal vendor) at ~ $35/roll, which seemed exorbitant to me.
w
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool.
It's called "lacing" and it's been used by telephone guys for ever. Find an older guy and he can probably teach you. ;) Try http://www.tecratools.com/pages/tecalert/cable_lacing.html as a starter. --- david raistrick http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html drais@atlasta.net http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Return-path: <owner-nanog@merit.edu> Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine
it is called "laced." very common among telephants. when you leave the colo, you will only be known by your cable dress. randy
Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool. As others have already indicated (and with some good links) it's cable lacing.
For how to's .. find anyone that has done a recognised apprenticeship in electrical, telecommunications, RF, or "multiskill" (electical/electromechanical/mechanical) and ask them to teach you (in this day and age of training courses, that probably means finding someone over the age of 35). Also you could ask your friendly local full license, old school radio ham etc etc... It's a dying skill, not because it isn't good, but because it takes training/practice and time. Tiewraps (Zip ties) are cheap, quick and require little (if any) training. Regards, Mat
age of 35). Also you could ask your friendly local full license, old school radio ham etc etc... It's a dying skill, not because it isn't good, but because it takes training/practice and time. Tiewraps (Zip ties) are cheap, quick and require little (if any) training.
When I sat my ham license, tying cables wasn't a component of the course. :) Though of course, many older-school licensees are probably from telco or professional RF backgrounds. (We wont mention how many years _under_ the average age, I am...) The other thing I found interesting; The use of Zip Ties on Copper Cabling is frowned upon by BICSI. Velcro preferred. Something to do with the compression on a twisted-pair cable caused by over-tight nylon cable ties screwing with their twist rates, and thus changing their Crosttalk characteristics... Mark. (Sporting the scars from poorly trimmed cable ties!)
The other thing I found interesting; The use of Zip Ties on Copper Cabling is frowned upon by BICSI. Velcro preferred.
Something to do with the compression on a twisted-pair cable caused by over-tight nylon cable ties screwing with their twist rates, and thus changing their Crosttalk characteristics...
Yep. For starters, the stuff that Dan Mahoney is looking for is properly known as waxed linen lacing cord. In a past life I used to order the stuff made by Ludlow Textiles through Graybar, their part # back then was 89039323. It's not always in stock in individual stores. As for plastic ties (TyRap is the brand name for the Thomas & Betts version) they may be easy to use, but they do have several functional drawbacks, including: 1) difficulty in maintaining consistent tension from tie to tie, and as a correlary it is comparatively easy to overtighten one, risking compression-related damage to the underlying cabling, or as mentioned above, increasing crosstalk when using twisted-pair cables 2) can harden and/or become brittle over time, eventually failing under stress 3) typical background vibration causes them to tend to chafe the sheaths of the wiring that the ties are in direct contact with, over a period of years. Lacing is a lot slower than using platic ties, and doing it is rough on your fingers. If you're lucky you know a data tech who can show you how to do it properly, it's really not something that you can just describe in writing. Depending upon the specific need, contact points may also have pieces of fish paper laced to them before the wiring is laid out and laced into place. Not unusual to see this when DC power cables are being secured.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:41:22PM -0700, Larry Beaulieu wrote:
The other thing I found interesting; The use of Zip Ties on Copper Cabling is frowned upon by BICSI. Velcro preferred.
Something to do with the compression on a twisted-pair cable caused by over-tight nylon cable ties screwing with their twist rates, and thus changing their Crosttalk characteristics...
Yep.
For starters, the stuff that Dan Mahoney is looking for is properly known as waxed linen lacing cord. In a past life I used to order the stuff made by Ludlow Textiles through Graybar, their part # back then was 89039323. It's not always in stock in individual stores.
As for plastic ties (TyRap is the brand name for the Thomas & Betts version) they may be easy to use, but they do have several functional drawbacks, including:
1) difficulty in maintaining consistent tension from tie to tie, and as a correlary it is comparatively easy to overtighten one, risking compression-related damage to the underlying cabling, or as mentioned above, increasing crosstalk when using twisted-pair cables 2) can harden and/or become brittle over time, eventually failing under stress 3) typical background vibration causes them to tend to chafe the sheaths of the wiring that the ties are in direct contact with, over a period of years.
This (and the other superbowl related emails) reminds me of a time I had a DS3 go down (on superbowl sunday). It had some chronic errors that would pop up where it would go down seemingly randomly. What we found out after a few more outages was that this (LD) carrier who placed their facilities next to train tracks had a more chronic issue of a train going by and causing LOS or errors on the circuit where they handed it off on coax to the ILEC/CLEC. Getting someone dispatched to look at the circuit on that sunday was problematic to say the least ;) - jared -- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
On 25 Jan 2007, at 04:41, Larry Beaulieu wrote:
The other thing I found interesting; The use of Zip Ties on Copper Cabling is frowned upon by BICSI. Velcro preferred.
Something to do with the compression on a twisted-pair cable caused by over-tight nylon cable ties screwing with their twist rates, and thus changing their Crosttalk characteristics...
Yep.
For starters, the stuff that Dan Mahoney is looking for is properly known as waxed linen lacing cord. In a past life I used to order the stuff made by Ludlow Textiles through Graybar, their part # back then was 89039323. It's not always in stock in individual stores.
[snip]
Lacing is a lot slower than using platic ties, and doing it is rough on your fingers. If you're lucky you know a data tech who can show you how to do it properly, it's really not something that you can just describe in writing.
The UK avionics industry used to (and may still) use thin PVC tube for lacing - kind of like thin insulated wire without the wire. It's got several advantages:- 1) Much kinder on the fingers 2) It stretches, which:- a) minimises the risk of overtightening it b) the elasticity keeps it snug, it doesn't work loose over time as easily 3) it doesn't rot And yes, I am old enough to know how to do it. But I disagree with Randy (what's new) I'm more of a Techosaur than a Telephant. Ian
On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:41:22PM -0700, Larry Beaulieu wrote:
Lacing is a lot slower than using platic ties, and doing it is rough on your fingers. If you're lucky you know a data tech who can show you how to do it properly, it's really not something that you can just describe in writing.
Sounds like a good use for youtube. -- "That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die." - H.P. Lovecraft, The Call of the Cthulhu <URL:http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/> -><- dharma <>< advaita For a good time on my UBE blacklist, email john@subspacefield.org.
Here's some nice lacing on our FLM150 rack: http://fiveforty.net/mux/Picture_010.jpg http://fiveforty.net/mux/Picture_013.jpg On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:30:06PM -0500, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
Hey all,
This seems a wee bit off topic, but definitely relates to network operations (somewhere below layer 1) and I can't think of a better place to ask.
Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool.
I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck. I was wondering if any of the gurus out there would care to share what this knot-pattern is actually called, and/or if there's a (illustrated) howto somewhere?
-Dan "Tired of getting scratched up by jagged cable ties" Mahoney
--
--------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org ---------------------------
At 07:30 PM 1/24/2007, you wrote:
Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool.
I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck. I was wondering if any of the gurus out there would care to share what this knot-pattern is actually called, and/or if there's a (illustrated) howto somewhere?
Someone else already mentioned Tecra Tools. We use Tecra. However, we use Specialized too. http://www.specialized.net/ecommerce/shop/seriesmaster.asp?series_id=Cable+L... Our guys prefer the Chicago style straight blade needles since the curved tools are too unwieldy when dealing with high cable density. Here is a picture from one of our datacenters: http://www.tellurian.com/california/img_8065_std.jpg We use lacing at all of our facilities. As far as I'm concerned, it is the only way to go. -Robert Tellurian Networks - Global Hosting Solutions Since 1995 http://www.tellurian.com | 888-TELLURIAN | 973-300-9211 "Well done is better than well said." - Benjamin Franklin
looks like a string of half hitchen to me. of course, if you need something huskier you could do a timber hitch, then a half, repeat as necessary. wasn't anyone else here a boy scout?
Dan, While I do not know the answer, My question on using the wax twine in a climate controlled or colo with fire suppression or even telco colo these days is it allowed under newer NEC since it is flammable and can sustain burning for a period of time. While Telecos do not usually retrofit COs that often after Hinesdale (spelling) in Chicago and the propagation of the fire on non-plemun rated cable all those standards were upgraded. I would check BICSI / NEC codes for your state to see if the materials can still be used or if they have a replacement material. John (ISDN) Lee Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
Hey all,
This seems a wee bit off topic, but definitely relates to network operations (somewhere below layer 1) and I can't think of a better place to ask.
Upon leaving a router at telx and asking one of their techs to plug in the equipment for me, I came back to find all my cat5 cables neatly tied with some sort of waxed twine, using an interesting looping knot pattern that repeated every six inches or so using a single piece of string. For some reason, I found this trick really cool.
I have tried googling for the method, (it's apparently standard, I've seen it in play elsewhere), and for the type of twine, but had little luck. I was wondering if any of the gurus out there would care to share what this knot-pattern is actually called, and/or if there's a (illustrated) howto somewhere?
-Dan "Tired of getting scratched up by jagged cable ties" Mahoney
--
--------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org ---------------------------
participants (21)
-
Alexander Harrowell -
Chris Cahill -
Chris L. Morrow -
Dan Mahoney, System Admin -
david raistrick -
Ian Mason -
Jared Mauch -
John L Lee -
Larry Beaulieu -
Mark Foster -
Matthew Palmer -
Matthew Sullivan -
Randy Bush -
Robert Boyle -
Scott Morris -
Steve Rubin -
sysadmin＠citynetwireless.net -
Tim Jackson -
Travis H. -
Wayne E. Bouchard -
William Yardley