Same with TWTC, at least here in N.C. If not nationally. I recently had Bellsouth install a private ring into my facility, and I didn't see the reason for a battery shelf if power to the datacenter floor was dead. Anyway, we ended up having to add a battery shelf because the rectifiers could not hold up the mux on replacement of one of the two rectifiers. Fun things to learn 72 hours from turn-up.... -Justin On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 00:09 -0400, Alex Rubenstein wrote:

In NJ, Verizon, MFS, and Telcove all install batteries.

We put them on our UPS and Genset anyway, however.

[SNIP]

...

In NJ, Verizon, MFS, and Telcove all install batteries.

We put them on our UPS and Genset anyway, however.

The corollary to this question:

If your data center has an adequate DC plant, will the carriers insist on installing their own batteries and rectifiers? And how many of them have redundant supplies to take advantage of an A and B feed from you?

In a new center we are currently building, Telcove has (happily) accepted our A- and B- feed DC power. They were almost happy, it seemed, to not have to worry about this.

Typically, because they're the phone company, if you offer them DC, they'll insist on AC. If ou offer them AC, they'll want DC. And it seems that wherever you want the MPOE/drop they'll have some reason to install it as far away as possible. :-)

That only happens when you let them think. We don't. We (more or less) say, "put your stuff here, or don't sell to us." -- Alex Rubenstein, AR97, K2AHR, alex@nac.net, latency, Al Reuben Net Access Corporation, 800-NET-ME-36, http://www.nac.net

--On June 5, 2005 8:11:41 PM -0700 Jay Hennigan <jay@west.net> wrote:

The corollary to this question:

If your data center has an adequate DC plant, will the carriers insist on installing their own batteries and rectifiers? And how many of them have redundant supplies to take advantage of an A and B feed from you?

There's no typical response. Here in QWest territory they drop their own cabinet and pull AC power for their own rectifiers and battery string inside the cabinet. (I helped lump the freaking batteries oy...) -- "Genius might be described as a supreme capacity for getting its possessors into trouble of all kinds." -- Samuel Butler

On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 12:56:34AM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote:

I've been wondering when the building codes will be updated. Currently the building codes require backup generators for elevators in high-rise buildings, but not for the telecommunications room in high-rise building (other than the fire alarm). Instead of pulling individual copper pairs from a POP to the high-rise building, a CLEC may install a fiber mux in the basement and break-down individual circuits locally to copper. When the building looses power, so does the fiber mux.

Of course, adding batteries to the fiber mux doesn't solve the problem of PBXs or even modern pay telephones in office buildings not working when power fails.

Who replaces the battery in your cell phone when it expires? How about the battery in your cordless phone? Or the battery in your smoke alarm?

If you don't want to do it yourself, for a fee you can hire someone else to do it for you. But then people would complain about the fee, and how they could do it themselves for less.

Well, this seems akin to the old "FOB Point" conversation in wholesale and retail sales: "what is the service point?" Or, more clearly: "whose responsibility it is to make sure that the service is available at the service point?" It seems a contractual issue, to me, in those cases where it's not a regulatory one. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates The Things I Think '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 If you can read this... thank a system administrator. Or two. --me

As prices fall, so does level of service. NANOGers all know providing uninterruptible power in the current evolving networks is hard as the communications infrastructure continues to decentralize. Providing non stop power for long term power failures with generators scattered all over the place is insanely hard.

Aside from human error, right now the weakest link in the net is the grid, and that is a link that isn't apparently getting any stronger.

It is interesting to note that one cause of the 6 hour Internet outage in Moscow was their belief that oin-site generators are not needed for telecom facilities. They felt that their AC power generation system was robust enough that providing 3 seperate power feeds into the M9 site contain MSK-IX was sufficient. And the power outage did show that the Russian power system architecture was indeed more robust than the American one. Their cascading failure was contained to a small area and power was restored faster than the August 2003 northeast failure. Perhaps there are lessons to be learned here by taking a closer look at what the Russian architecture is, what they expected to achieve with it, and what went wrong beyond the fact that old generators were not properly maintained or replaced. Is it possible to provide a municipal AC power grid for telecom facilities that can reliably power those facilities without recourse to on-site generators? After all, if there are working circuits into a site that means that there are undamaged paths which could be carrying AC current into the site. And if there are functioning gas lines into a site there are also undamaged paths which could be carrying AC current into a site. Note that I am assuming that at least one of the redundant power feeds into a site would be independent of the power grid, i.e. a municipal generator that supplies only telecom sites and data centers in a local area. --Michael Dillon