Hey Folks, I am trying to work out a strategy for vendor certification in our company. As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice? For example. NOC staff should be JNCIA and engineering JNCIP to JNCIE? Clearly certification does not usually reflect ability but it does help people feel valued and to maintain a basic level of competence. Thanks all, Isaac
On Sep 3, 2014, at 5:00 AM, Isaac Adams <isaacnanog@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Folks,
I am trying to work out a strategy for vendor certification in our company. As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice?
For example. NOC staff should be JNCIA and engineering JNCIP to JNCIE?
Clearly certification does not usually reflect ability but it does help people feel valued and to maintain a basic level of competence.
Cisco discriminates against customers without certification and delays service and support to them as a result. (e.g.: you can’t open a sev 1 case online unless you are “CCIE”). You likely want to have someone with this access in their account to speed access when there are network critical issues. - Jared
^^ It really helps if you're a Cisco shop to have CCIEs. Every place I've worked has offered to refund the cost of a cert after you pass (if the employee fails, the cost is on them), and it's had a pretty decent uptake among the more junior staff - as well as the CCIE re-certs. I'm not sure if Juniper have a similar type system of rewarding partners that are packed with certified engineers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
On Sep 3, 2014, at 5:00 AM, Isaac Adams <isaacnanog@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Folks,
I am trying to work out a strategy for vendor certification in our company. As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice?
For example. NOC staff should be JNCIA and engineering JNCIP to JNCIE?
Clearly certification does not usually reflect ability but it does help people feel valued and to maintain a basic level of competence.
Cisco discriminates against customers without certification and delays service and support to them as a result. (e.g.: you can’t open a sev 1 case online unless you are “CCIE”).
You likely want to have someone with this access in their account to speed access when there are network critical issues.
- Jared
-- Trent Farrell Riot Games IP Network Engineer E: tfarrell@riotgames.com | IE: +353 83 446 6809 | US: +1 424 285 9825 Summoner name: Foro
On 3 Sep 2014, at 12:23, Jared Mauch wrote:
On Sep 3, 2014, at 5:00 AM, Isaac Adams <isaacnanog@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Folks,
I am trying to work out a strategy for vendor certification in our company. As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice?
For example. NOC staff should be JNCIA and engineering JNCIP to JNCIE?
Clearly certification does not usually reflect ability but it does help people feel valued and to maintain a basic level of competence.
Cisco discriminates against customers without certification and delays service and support to them as a result. (e.g.: you can’t open a sev 1 case online unless you are “CCIE”).
You can however just call them and yell "Environment Down" and they will call it whatever Sev you want. There are an unending number of issues with their online case opening "portal" however. Filling out a form online to wait a call back was never my first choice. Plus putting that Cisco hold music on speaker is a good way to improve the mood!
You likely want to have someone with this access in their account to speed access when there are network critical issues.
- Jared
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The technical term for that music is the "Cisco Disco" On 09/03/2014 05:34 PM, Jon Garrison wrote:
On 3 Sep 2014, at 12:23, Jared Mauch wrote:
On Sep 3, 2014, at 5:00 AM, Isaac Adams <isaacnanog@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Folks,
I am trying to work out a strategy for vendor certification in our company. As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice?
For example. NOC staff should be JNCIA and engineering JNCIP to JNCIE?
Clearly certification does not usually reflect ability but it does help people feel valued and to maintain a basic level of competence.
Cisco discriminates against customers without certification and delays service and support to them as a result. (e.g.: you can’t open a sev 1 case online unless you are “CCIE”).
You can however just call them and yell "Environment Down" and they will call it whatever Sev you want. There are an unending number of issues with their online case opening "portal" however.
Filling out a form online to wait a call back was never my first choice. Plus putting that Cisco hold music on speaker is a good way to improve the mood!
You likely want to have someone with this access in their account to speed access when there are network critical issues.
- Jared -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1
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The technical term for that music is the "Cisco Disco"
On 09/03/2014 05:34 PM, Jon Garrison wrote:
On 3 Sep 2014, at 12:23, Jared Mauch wrote:
On Sep 3, 2014, at 5:00 AM, Isaac Adams <isaacnanog@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Folks,
I am trying to work out a strategy for vendor certification in our company. As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice?
For example. NOC staff should be JNCIA and engineering JNCIP to JNCIE?
Clearly certification does not usually reflect ability but it does help people feel valued and to maintain a basic level of competence.
Cisco discriminates against customers without certification and delays service and support to them as a result. (e.g.: you can’t open a sev 1 case online unless you are “CCIE”).
You can however just call them and yell "Environment Down" and they will call it whatever Sev you want. There are an unending number of issues with their online case opening "portal" however.
Filling out a form online to wait a call back was never my first choice. Plus putting that Cisco hold music on speaker is a good way to improve the mood!
You likely want to have someone with this access in their account to speed access when there are network critical issues.
- Jared
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 5:00 AM, Isaac Adams <isaacnanog@gmail.com> wrote:
I am trying to work out a strategy for vendor certification in our company. As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice?
For example. NOC staff should be JNCIA and engineering JNCIP to JNCIE?
Clearly certification does not usually reflect ability but it does help people feel valued and to maintain a basic level of competence.
Hi Isaac, Personally, I use certifications as more of a weed-out factor. List lots of certifications on your resume? No interview for you. Particularly that guy who used what should have been valuable space on his resume to report having taken a 3-day certification course in configuring Kentrox CSU/DSUs. Yikes! Seriously though, certs stink of a cogs-in-the-machine approach to business, which is the opposite of making folks feel individually valued. Gee, I can tell from talking to you that you're smarter than half our engineers but if you want to respond to the red lights in the NOC you'll have to go get a CCNA. If you want them to feel valued, give them an education reimbursement program for any job-relevant training, college coursework, etc. Any who want to spend it on certs, so be it. Any who want to spend it professional conferences like NANOG, well, those are the ones you keep. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/> Can I solve your unusual networking challenges?
We got a resume once where the guy listed "2-day workshop on personal grooming, Karachi, Pakistan" under his "education" section. I think that trumps the Kentrox certification. :-) -Bill
On Sep 4, 2014, at 0:58, "William Herrin" <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 5:00 AM, Isaac Adams <isaacnanog@gmail.com> wrote: I am trying to work out a strategy for vendor certification in our company. As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice?
For example. NOC staff should be JNCIA and engineering JNCIP to JNCIE?
Clearly certification does not usually reflect ability but it does help people feel valued and to maintain a basic level of competence.
Hi Isaac,
Personally, I use certifications as more of a weed-out factor. List lots of certifications on your resume? No interview for you. Particularly that guy who used what should have been valuable space on his resume to report having taken a 3-day certification course in configuring Kentrox CSU/DSUs. Yikes!
Seriously though, certs stink of a cogs-in-the-machine approach to business, which is the opposite of making folks feel individually valued. Gee, I can tell from talking to you that you're smarter than half our engineers but if you want to respond to the red lights in the NOC you'll have to go get a CCNA.
If you want them to feel valued, give them an education reimbursement program for any job-relevant training, college coursework, etc. Any who want to spend it on certs, so be it. Any who want to spend it professional conferences like NANOG, well, those are the ones you keep.
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/> Can I solve your unusual networking challenges?
In all seriousness, some people could do with that! On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
We got a resume once where the guy listed "2-day workshop on personal grooming, Karachi, Pakistan" under his "education" section. I think that trumps the Kentrox certification. :-)
-Bill
On Sep 4, 2014, at 0:58, "William Herrin" <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 5:00 AM, Isaac Adams <isaacnanog@gmail.com> wrote: I am trying to work out a strategy for vendor certification in our company. As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice?
For example. NOC staff should be JNCIA and engineering JNCIP to JNCIE?
Clearly certification does not usually reflect ability but it does help people feel valued and to maintain a basic level of competence.
Hi Isaac,
Personally, I use certifications as more of a weed-out factor. List lots of certifications on your resume? No interview for you. Particularly that guy who used what should have been valuable space on his resume to report having taken a 3-day certification course in configuring Kentrox CSU/DSUs. Yikes!
Seriously though, certs stink of a cogs-in-the-machine approach to business, which is the opposite of making folks feel individually valued. Gee, I can tell from talking to you that you're smarter than half our engineers but if you want to respond to the red lights in the NOC you'll have to go get a CCNA.
If you want them to feel valued, give them an education reimbursement program for any job-relevant training, college coursework, etc. Any who want to spend it on certs, so be it. Any who want to spend it professional conferences like NANOG, well, those are the ones you keep.
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/> Can I solve your unusual networking challenges?
On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 10:00:17AM +0100, Isaac Adams wrote:
As a general rule, do you all fund employees certification and if so what kind of levels do you try to maintain as good practice?
No and none. I see value in competence, practice, experience, education and the inevitable bitter lessons that we all must endure, but I don't see any value in the vendor certification process except as "cash cow for vendors". ---rsk
participants (8)
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Bill Woodcock -
Eric Stoltz -
Isaac Adams -
Jared Mauch -
Jon Garrison -
Rich Kulawiec -
Trent Farrell -
William Herrin