Re: Muni Fiber and Politics
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Herrin" <bill@herrin.us>
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
I will point out that in my experience, private roads do not tend to be as well maintained overall as public roads with some notable exceptions in very wealthy gated communities.
Ironically, I've had the opposite experience. The nearby Dulles Toll Road, Greenway and Beltway HOT lanes are all in much better condition than all but a few of the rest of the local roads. My buddies out at http://hoveroad.com/ don't keep the roads in as good shape, but they are in excellent repair for an organization that maintains 157 miles of roads on a $1M annual budget. Vastly better than what I've seen a municipality achieve for the same price.
Stop it, Bill. Owen didn't say "privately owned *toll road*"; "very wealthy gated communities" are even still rarely large enough to need their own turnpikes. If you keep setting up straw men, we'll be happy to knock them down for you, but you'll end up looking a little foolish. Stop trying to make the arguments fit the end-game, and have the same conversation the rest of us are, ok? (And the next assertion you shouldn't make is that I'm saying governments are perfect, or even better than private corporations *IN GENERAL*; we're talking about a very specific commons, with a very specific set of requirements that are not well served by proprietary profit-making corporations.) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
I will point out that in my experience, private roads do not tend to be as well maintained overall as public roads with some notable exceptions in very wealthy gated communities.
Ironically, I've had the opposite experience. The nearby Dulles Toll Road, Greenway and Beltway HOT lanes are all in much better condition than all but a few of the rest of the local roads. My buddies out at http://hoveroad.com/ don't keep the roads in as good shape, but they are in excellent repair for an organization that maintains 157 miles of roads on a $1M annual budget. Vastly better than what I've seen a municipality achieve for the same price.
Stop it, Bill.
Owen didn't say "privately owned *toll road*"; "very wealthy gated communities" are even still rarely large enough to need their own turnpikes.
If you keep setting up straw men, we'll be happy to knock them down for you, but you'll end up looking a little foolish.
(A) The referenced example, the HOVE RMC, is 157 miles of privately owned road which is neither a toll road nor a gated community. (B) That was a private message to you and Owen. Is there a particular reason you felt the need to add nanog back to the recipients list? -Bill -- William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/> Can I solve your unusual networking challenges?
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Herrin" <bill@herrin.us>
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Ironically, I've had the opposite experience. The nearby Dulles Toll Road, Greenway and Beltway HOT lanes are all in much better condition than all but a few of the rest of the local roads. My buddies out at http://hoveroad.com/ don't keep the roads in as good shape, but they are in excellent repair for an organization that maintains 157 miles of roads on a $1M annual budget. Vastly better than what I've seen a municipality achieve for the same price.
Stop it, Bill.
Owen didn't say "privately owned *toll road*"; "very wealthy gated communities" are even still rarely large enough to need their own turnpikes.
If you keep setting up straw men, we'll be happy to knock them down for you, but you'll end up looking a little foolish.
(A) The referenced example, the HOVE RMC, is 157 miles of privately owned road which is neither a toll road nor a gated community.
That was one example of 4, the last. The other appear to be toll roads, though I don't live in the neighborhood.
(B) That was a private message to you and Owen. Is there a particular reason you felt the need to add nanog back to the recipients list?
Cause my mailer isn't RFC 2919 compliant. Sorry. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote: ....
Cause my mailer isn't RFC 2919 compliant. Sorry.
Zimbra has had open "follow the damn RFC's" tickets out there for a number of years. Perhaps it is past time to migrate away (fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me for three consecutive version upgrades....)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Buhrmaster" <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com>
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote: ....
Cause my mailer isn't RFC 2919 compliant. Sorry.
Zimbra has had open "follow the damn RFC's" tickets out there for a number of years.
I know. I wrote the vast majority of them, when I installed 5.x in 2009.
Perhaps it is past time to migrate away (fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me for three consecutive version upgrades....)
The machine my personal Z6 server is on, since I left that job, is 64 bit, but I only had 32 bit Centos5 laying around to install it with at that time, and to upgrade Zimbra I now *have to* upgrade the OS as well, which boosts the tuit requirements enough notches that I just haven't done it yet. It's about to be replaced by something much newer and faster, which will get Z8... and then I'll retarget all the tickets which they likely *still* haven't fixed. :-} Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
From: "William Herrin" <bill@herrin.us>
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Ironically, I've had the opposite experience. The nearby Dulles Toll Road, Greenway and Beltway HOT lanes are all in much better condition than all but a few of the rest of the local roads. My buddies out at http://hoveroad.com/ don't keep the roads in as good shape, but they are in excellent repair for an organization that maintains 157 miles of roads on a $1M annual budget. Vastly better than what I've seen a municipality achieve for the same price.
Stop it, Bill.
Owen didn't say "privately owned *toll road*"; "very wealthy gated communities" are even still rarely large enough to need their own turnpikes.
If you keep setting up straw men, we'll be happy to knock them down for you, but you'll end up looking a little foolish.
(A) The referenced example, the HOVE RMC, is 157 miles of privately owned road which is neither a toll road nor a gated community.
That was one example of 4, the last. The other appear to be toll roads, though I don't live in the neighborhood.
Indeed. One is a purely private toll road, one is a public-private partnership toll road and one is owned and operated by a quasi-governmental agency. Why consider just one class of private roads when you can examine examples of four? VDOT actually does a halfway decent job of maintaining local public roads but they spend a vast fortune on it and they're decades (with an s) behind expanding those roads to meet the demand. Compared to Verizon/Netflix they're about the same: works OK a good part of the day but comes to a screeching halt during the quarter of the day that are prime hours. Compare that to Maryland which enjoys reducing lanes for construction work on already congested roads for months at a time and DC itself which spends a cast fortune on roads which are usually in worse condition *after* the maintenance. Soon the roads there will have more metal plate surface area than asphalt. DC roads are like a network with permanent 10% packet loss and your only alternative is geo satellite. But HOVE is a nice example. As a land owner and therefore shareholder in the RMC, I pay my fees every year. I vote directly on those fees too, so if I'm not happy I have some real control. As a shareholder of Verizon I have no control. I truly earnestly wish my stock would go to zero. Rather, I wish for Verizon to encounter trouble that would cause my stock to drop to zero. But as long as that isn't happening I may as well collect the dividend. If the government ran it, I couldn't even do that. What were we talking about? I forget. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/> Can I solve your unusual networking challenges?
participants (3)
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Gary Buhrmaster -
Jay Ashworth -
William Herrin