Amazon peering revisited
Hi all, a nanog thread started on November 23, 2018 discussed the challenges of getting Amazon peering sessions turned up. Has anyone had luck since/does anyone have a contact they could refer me to — off-list or otherwise? The process of getting PNI in place with other CSPs was straightforward, but I haven't heard back from AWS after a month and several follow-ups. Our customers would really benefit from us getting this sorted. Thanks, Kelly -- Kelly Littlepage OneChronos Global kelly@onechronos.com https://www.onechronos.com -- This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise believe that you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If this message was misdirected, OCX Group Inc. does not waive any confidentiality or privilege.
On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 8:22 AM Kelly Littlepage via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Hi all, a nanog thread started on November 23, 2018 discussed the challenges of getting Amazon peering sessions turned up. Has anyone had luck since/does anyone have a contact they could refer me to — off-list or otherwise? The process of getting PNI in place with other CSPs was straightforward, but I haven't heard back from AWS after a month and several follow-ups. Our customers would really benefit from us getting this sorted.
There are many folks that here that are in AWS. Assuming you have followed what is in https://aws.amazon.com/peering/ (and https://aws.amazon.com/peering/policy/) then send me details privately about what/when/who and I'll reach out internally to the relevant folks.
Have gotten into the habit of making annual peering requests to Amazon asking turn up a session on a shared IXP peering. Once was able to get a peering session turned up, no traffic was ever shifted onto it before we moved out of that carrier hotel a year or so later. The amazon peering email box does have humans surfing it. Over the years a number of network operators have mentioned getting little response from Amazon about peering requests. For a company like Amazon they have little reason to do peering with small scale operators. They already peer with the tier 1’s and assume I will do what I need to balance my bits. The fancy algorithms they use to balance traffic around does allow them to operate a decent network with fewer staff and less links to the small ISPs. Just a network operator here, trying to get my bytes across the wire. Enjoy your weekend! Kevin Burke 802-540-0979 Burlington Telecom 200 Church St, Burlington, VT From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+kburke=burlingtontelecom.com@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Lincoln Dale Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 12:20 PM To: Kelly Littlepage <kelly@onechronos.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Amazon peering revisited WARNING!! This message originated from an External Source. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email. On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 8:22 AM Kelly Littlepage via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: Hi all, a nanog thread started on November 23, 2018 discussed the challenges of getting Amazon peering sessions turned up. Has anyone had luck since/does anyone have a contact they could refer me to — off-list or otherwise? The process of getting PNI in place with other CSPs was straightforward, but I haven't heard back from AWS after a month and several follow-ups. Our customers would really benefit from us getting this sorted. There are many folks that here that are in AWS. Assuming you have followed what is in https://aws.amazon.com/peering/ (and https://aws.amazon.com/peering/policy/) then send me details privately about what/when/who and I'll reach out internally to the relevant folks.
"For a company like Amazon..." True, but also, they're at a size where staffing and operating peering operations generously has a negligible impact on the fiscal situation of the company (or even department). ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Burke" <kburke@burlingtontelecom.com> To: "Lincoln Dale" <ltd@interlink.com.au>, "Kelly Littlepage" <kelly@onechronos.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 3:25:53 PM Subject: RE: Amazon peering revisited Have gotten into the habit of making annual peering requests to Amazon asking turn up a session on a shared IXP peering. Once was able to get a peering session turned up, no traffic was ever shifted onto it before we moved out of that carrier hotel a year or so later. The amazon peering email box does have humans surfing it. Over the years a number of network operators have mentioned getting little response from Amazon about peering requests. For a company like Amazon they have little reason to do peering with small scale operators. They already peer with the tier 1’s and assume I will do what I need to balance my bits. The fancy algorithms they use to balance traffic around does allow them to operate a decent network with fewer staff and less links to the small ISPs. Just a network operator here, trying to get my bytes across the wire. Enjoy your weekend! Kevin Burke 802-540-0979 Burlington Telecom 200 Church St, Burlington, VT From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+kburke=burlingtontelecom.com@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Lincoln Dale Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 12:20 PM To: Kelly Littlepage <kelly@onechronos.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Amazon peering revisited WARNING!! This message originated from an External Source . Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email. On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 8:22 AM Kelly Littlepage via NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > wrote: Hi all, a nanog thread started on November 23, 2018 discussed the challenges of getting Amazon peering sessions turned up. Has anyone had luck since/does anyone have a contact they could refer me to — off-list or otherwise? The process of getting PNI in place with other CSPs was straightforward, but I haven't heard back from AWS after a month and several follow-ups. Our customers would really benefit from us getting this sorted. There are many folks that here that are in AWS. Assuming you have followed what is in https://aws.amazon.com/peering/ (and https://aws.amazon.com/peering/policy/ ) then send me details privately about what/when/who and I'll reach out internally to the relevant folks.
There are also three different ASNs and different policy decision trees; they all report selective criteria such as minimum of 10GE, multiple locations, specific locations, etc. Not sure it's as simple as 'getting the right person' more than it is about meeting the right conditions. Easier for network operators. Enterprises may be different (and better off with their upstreams or PacketFabric). YMMV, -M< On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 5:30 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
"For a company like Amazon..."
True, but also, they're at a size where staffing and operating peering operations generously has a negligible impact on the fiscal situation of the company (or even department).
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Kevin Burke" <kburke@burlingtontelecom.com> *To: *"Lincoln Dale" <ltd@interlink.com.au>, "Kelly Littlepage" < kelly@onechronos.com> *Cc: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Friday, February 4, 2022 3:25:53 PM *Subject: *RE: Amazon peering revisited
Have gotten into the habit of making annual peering requests to Amazon asking turn up a session on a shared IXP peering. Once was able to get a peering session turned up, no traffic was ever shifted onto it before we moved out of that carrier hotel a year or so later. The amazon peering email box does have humans surfing it.
Over the years a number of network operators have mentioned getting little response from Amazon about peering requests.
For a company like Amazon they have little reason to do peering with small scale operators. They already peer with the tier 1’s and assume I will do what I need to balance my bits. The fancy algorithms they use to balance traffic around does allow them to operate a decent network with fewer staff and less links to the small ISPs. Just a network operator here, trying to get my bytes across the wire.
Enjoy your weekend!
Kevin Burke
802-540-0979
Burlington Telecom
200 Church St, Burlington, VT
*From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+kburke=burlingtontelecom.com@nanog.org> *On Behalf Of *Lincoln Dale *Sent:* Thursday, February 3, 2022 12:20 PM *To:* Kelly Littlepage <kelly@onechronos.com> *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org *Subject:* Re: Amazon peering revisited
WARNING!! This message originated from an *External Source*. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 8:22 AM Kelly Littlepage via NANOG < nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Hi all, a nanog thread started on November 23, 2018 discussed the challenges of getting Amazon peering sessions turned up. Has anyone had luck since/does anyone have a contact they could refer me to — off-list or otherwise? The process of getting PNI in place with other CSPs was straightforward, but I haven't heard back from AWS after a month and several follow-ups. Our customers would really benefit from us getting this sorted.
There are many folks that here that are in AWS. Assuming you have followed what is in https://aws.amazon.com/peering/ (and https://aws.amazon.com/peering/policy/) then send me details privately about what/when/who and I'll reach out internally to the relevant folks.
Hi all, We (Amazon) have made improvements over the last few years to significantly improve our NOC and Peering response times, as well as the time it takes to set up a peering session, whether over IX or direct PNI/SFI. If you don't get a response from the respective Peering mailing address listed on our PeeringDB https://peeringdb.com/net/1418 , feel free to email me privately and I'll get in touch with the right folks internally. Regards, Andras On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 9:40 AM Martin Hannigan <hannigan@gmail.com> wrote:
There are also three different ASNs and different policy decision trees; they all report selective criteria such as minimum of 10GE, multiple locations, specific locations, etc. Not sure it's as simple as 'getting the right person' more than it is about meeting the right conditions. Easier for network operators. Enterprises may be different (and better off with their upstreams or PacketFabric).
YMMV,
-M<
On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 5:30 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
"For a company like Amazon..."
True, but also, they're at a size where staffing and operating peering operations generously has a negligible impact on the fiscal situation of the company (or even department).
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Kevin Burke" <kburke@burlingtontelecom.com> *To: *"Lincoln Dale" <ltd@interlink.com.au>, "Kelly Littlepage" < kelly@onechronos.com> *Cc: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Friday, February 4, 2022 3:25:53 PM *Subject: *RE: Amazon peering revisited
Have gotten into the habit of making annual peering requests to Amazon asking turn up a session on a shared IXP peering. Once was able to get a peering session turned up, no traffic was ever shifted onto it before we moved out of that carrier hotel a year or so later. The amazon peering email box does have humans surfing it.
Over the years a number of network operators have mentioned getting little response from Amazon about peering requests.
For a company like Amazon they have little reason to do peering with small scale operators. They already peer with the tier 1’s and assume I will do what I need to balance my bits. The fancy algorithms they use to balance traffic around does allow them to operate a decent network with fewer staff and less links to the small ISPs. Just a network operator here, trying to get my bytes across the wire.
Enjoy your weekend!
Kevin Burke
802-540-0979
Burlington Telecom
200 Church St, Burlington, VT
*From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+kburke=burlingtontelecom.com@nanog.org> *On Behalf Of *Lincoln Dale *Sent:* Thursday, February 3, 2022 12:20 PM *To:* Kelly Littlepage <kelly@onechronos.com> *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org *Subject:* Re: Amazon peering revisited
WARNING!! This message originated from an *External Source*. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 8:22 AM Kelly Littlepage via NANOG < nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Hi all, a nanog thread started on November 23, 2018 discussed the challenges of getting Amazon peering sessions turned up. Has anyone had luck since/does anyone have a contact they could refer me to — off-list or otherwise? The process of getting PNI in place with other CSPs was straightforward, but I haven't heard back from AWS after a month and several follow-ups. Our customers would really benefit from us getting this sorted.
There are many folks that here that are in AWS. Assuming you have followed what is in https://aws.amazon.com/peering/ (and https://aws.amazon.com/peering/policy/) then send me details privately about what/when/who and I'll reach out internally to the relevant folks.
For those persons who have not received an answer from the Amazon peering email addresses, or a BGP session with traffic actually flowing across it... Obviously Amazon does not share their own traffic volume criteria for selecting a peer vs. sending traffic to them over a giant IP transit provider. I wonder what the actual threshold is as measured in traffic volume from netflow data to/from the Amazon AS before they start taking a potential peer seriously. Obviously if you're somebody big like a regional ILEC or a cable operator that has half of a major city as your incumbent territory, it's not even a question, but for smaller ISPs it's an interesting question to discover where exactly that threshold is. On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 at 13:26, Kevin Burke <kburke@burlingtontelecom.com> wrote:
Have gotten into the habit of making annual peering requests to Amazon asking turn up a session on a shared IXP peering. Once was able to get a peering session turned up, no traffic was ever shifted onto it before we moved out of that carrier hotel a year or so later. The amazon peering email box does have humans surfing it.
Over the years a number of network operators have mentioned getting little response from Amazon about peering requests.
For a company like Amazon they have little reason to do peering with small scale operators. They already peer with the tier 1’s and assume I will do what I need to balance my bits. The fancy algorithms they use to balance traffic around does allow them to operate a decent network with fewer staff and less links to the small ISPs. Just a network operator here, trying to get my bytes across the wire.
Enjoy your weekend!
Kevin Burke
802-540-0979
Burlington Telecom
200 Church St, Burlington, VT
*From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+kburke=burlingtontelecom.com@nanog.org> *On Behalf Of *Lincoln Dale *Sent:* Thursday, February 3, 2022 12:20 PM *To:* Kelly Littlepage <kelly@onechronos.com> *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org *Subject:* Re: Amazon peering revisited
WARNING!! This message originated from an *External Source*. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 8:22 AM Kelly Littlepage via NANOG < nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Hi all, a nanog thread started on November 23, 2018 discussed the challenges of getting Amazon peering sessions turned up. Has anyone had luck since/does anyone have a contact they could refer me to — off-list or otherwise? The process of getting PNI in place with other CSPs was straightforward, but I haven't heard back from AWS after a month and several follow-ups. Our customers would really benefit from us getting this sorted.
There are many folks that here that are in AWS. Assuming you have followed what is in https://aws.amazon.com/peering/ (and https://aws.amazon.com/peering/policy/) then send me details privately about what/when/who and I'll reach out internally to the relevant folks.
participants (8)
-
Andras Toth -
Don Fanning -
Eric Kuhnke -
Kelly Littlepage -
Kevin Burke -
Lincoln Dale -
Martin Hannigan -
Mike Hammett