RE: Dear Linksys: Your broken WET54GS5 makes me sad.
It seems that it's pretty dim there. After acknowledging that the product was broken by design, they offered to replace them under warranty. Great. I wonder how Cisco feels about these jack-holes using their brand. matto On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Roland H. Alden wrote: Mark, rest assured there is no intelligent life at Linksys. I've moved on to Netgear myself for all el-cheapo applications. It would be great if Cisco would flush Linksys and come out with a low cost line that is engineered with real Cisco DNA and a modicom of intelligent tech support. Even a decent bug database maintained by somebody that can spell TCP/IP would be a step forward. As it stands Linksys is just making Cisco look bad. I'm sure they are laughing all the way to the bank. --matt@snark.net------------------------------------------<darwin>< The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 11:13:31AM -0700, just me wrote:
It seems that it's pretty dim there. After acknowledging that the product was broken by design, they offered to replace them under warranty. Great.
I wonder how Cisco feels about these jack-holes using their brand.
matto
What does your inability to get a $49 consumer device working have to do with NANOG? -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203
My apologies. Apparently I was mistaken when I thought that other network operators might be interested in saving themselves the time and money of buying a broken piece of network equipment, which the manufacturer won't support. I made a rash assumption that such behavior from a vendor might be helpful knowledge to folks who might happen to be purchasing networking hardware in the future. Apparently you think that a mailing list of network operators is an inappropriate venue. I apologize, and encourage you to continue blathering on about DNSBLs and DJB vs. Vix, both much more edifying threads. Matt Ghali On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: What does your inability to get a $49 consumer device working have to do with NANOG? --matt@snark.net------------------------------------------<darwin>< The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, just some end user wrote: > I made a rash assumption that such behavior from a vendor might be > helpful knowledge to folks who might happen to be purchasing > networking hardware in the future. Yeah, but Linksys makes CPE, not networking hardware. I think you're looking for the inet-access list. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=inet-access&r=1&w=1 -Bill
My apologies. Apparently I was mistaken when I thought that other network operators might be interested in saving themselves the time and money of buying a broken piece of network equipment, which the manufacturer won't support.
is there any other kind of networking equipment? even the best of the vendors says "we suck less." the internet is about building a scalable reliable network out of unreliable components. unfortunately, most vendors seem to have taken as license. randy
yeah, I agree. this is one of the cases where they "suck more" and I hoped that folks would be able to use the info to make an educated guess as to who might suck less. I'm kind of crazy like that. The last time I tried to warn off unwitting consumers, I ended up spending $50k on legal fees defending myself. http://goldengatevw.com/ For some reason, it think its worth it, but most folks seem to think its off topic and stupid. I give up. matto On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Randy Bush wrote:
My apologies. Apparently I was mistaken when I thought that other network operators might be interested in saving themselves the time and money of buying a broken piece of network equipment, which the manufacturer won't support.
is there any other kind of networking equipment? even the best of the vendors says "we suck less." the internet is about building a scalable reliable network out of unreliable components. unfortunately, most vendors seem to have taken as license. randy --matt@snark.net------------------------------------------<darwin>< The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
just me <matt@snark.net> wrote:
My apologies. Apparently I was mistaken when I thought that other network operators might be interested in saving themselves the time and money of buying a broken piece of network equipment, which the manufacturer won't support.
Unless the Linksys router in question can do GigE, I'm not sure most network operators would be interested in buying it. :) In all seriousness, this might be better posted on a list like Jupitermedia's isp-tech, since the membership of that list consists of a lot of consumer ISPs that might want to advise their customers to stay away from the product in question.
Apparently you think that a mailing list of network operators is an inappropriate venue.
In this case, I do. It's a consumer product. -- JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Unless the Linksys router in question can do GigE, I'm not sure most network operators would be interested in buying it. :)
Interestingly enough, the WRT54G is capable of gigE. First, the firmware in the device is Linux and it can be upgraded and changed by the owner in any way that they want. Many people have worked on an enhanced and open version of the WRT54G firmware. http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/LinksysWrt54g As for gigE, if you open up the WRT54G you will see that it has a mini-PCI wireless card. Some people take these out and swap them with the mini-PCI 802.11b card in their laptops to gain a speed boost in the laptop. But you can put any mini-PCI card in here that has Linux drivers. And, yes, there are mini-PCI gigE cards on the market. I don't know if anyone has tried this yet, but it's only a matter of time. We live in interesting times...
In this case, I do. It's a consumer product.
One way to solve this problem, and recognize that many IP network operators sell service to consumers as well as peering, would be to offer the inet-access mailing list to come under the NANOG umbrella, and then encourage discussions to move to the appropriate list. There is no reason why the NANOG community needs to limit itself to a single-focus mailing list and a single-track conference. --Michael Dillon
* Michael.Dillon@radianz.com [Tue 12 Apr 2005, 13:21 CEST]:
As for gigE, if you open up the WRT54G you will see that it has a mini-PCI wireless card. Some people
Only the original (v1.0) hardware had that, so don't all rush to the stores to see how well a 133MHz processor would cope with GigE, people...
In this case, I do. It's a consumer product.
One way to solve this problem, and recognize that many IP network operators sell service to consumers as well as peering, would be to offer the inet-access mailing list to come under the NANOG umbrella, and then encourage discussions to move to the appropriate list. There is no reason why the NANOG community needs to limit itself to a single-focus mailing list and a single-track conference.
We can already ask people to take their discussions to the appropriate place. No need for that other place to fall under the same umbrella. NANOG has a charter, and this whole thread falls squarely outside it. -- Niels. -- The idle mind is the devil's playground
Niels Bakker wrote:
* Michael.Dillon@radianz.com [Tue 12 Apr 2005, 13:21 CEST]:
In this case, I do. It's a consumer product.
One way to solve this problem, and recognize that many IP network operators sell service to consumers as well as peering, would be to offer the inet-access mailing list to come under the NANOG umbrella, and then encourage discussions to move to the appropriate list. There is no reason why the NANOG community needs to limit itself to a single-focus mailing list and a single-track conference.
We can already ask people to take their discussions to the appropriate place. No need for that other place to fall under the same umbrella. NANOG has a charter, and this whole thread falls squarely outside it.
Ditto. The inet-access list is one of the many "other lists" referenced in the NANOG FAQ as a place to discuss topics that may be of interest to *some* NANOG participants but which are off-topic to NANOG itself. Anyone who is interested in discussion about "consumer product" items (and other topics of interest to ISPs and network providers small and large) is welcome to subscribe to inet-access by sending email: From: the address you are subscribing To: list-request@inet-access.net <mailto:list-request@inet-access.net> Body: subscribe Reply to the confirmation email. jc - list admin for inet-access
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 Michael.Dillon@radianz.com wrote:
Interestingly enough, the WRT54G is capable of gigE.
Probably not at full speed, though. Its only an ARM
First, the firmware in the device is Linux and it can be upgraded and changed by the owner in any way that they want. Many people have worked on an enhanced and open version of the WRT54G firmware. http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/LinksysWrt54g
You might also look at www.openwrt.org for sw. If you are willing to solder a surface mount chip in, you can have a serial console, too. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 10:19:36AM -0400, Dean Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 Michael.Dillon@radianz.com wrote:
Interestingly enough, the WRT54G is capable of gigE.
Probably not at full speed, though. Its only an ARM
First, the firmware in the device is Linux and it can be upgraded and changed by the owner in any way that they want. Many people have worked on an enhanced and open version of the WRT54G firmware. http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/LinksysWrt54g
You might also look at www.openwrt.org for sw.
If you are willing to solder a surface mount chip in, you can have a serial console, too.
the other (and better IMHO) solution is to just build your own box. You can't approach the Linksys cost, but you can get good functionality. Get a Soekris (www.soekris.com) board, (of various types) and install the cards you need, either PCMCIA, USB, mini-PCI, etc.. You can then use your favourite x86 *nix distro and make it work. You'll need to get a Power supply and a CF card but i'd imagine that once you get it set up it'll work more reliably (and be upgradable) than the existing consumer device. There are others that make similar boards, so check out your options, but it makes for a useful device.. - jared -- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
Michael.Dillon@radianz.com wrote:
Interestingly enough, the WRT54G is capable of gigE.
Heh. Didn't realize that.
In this case, I do. It's a consumer product.
One way to solve this problem, and recognize that many IP network operators sell service to consumers as well as peering, would be to offer the inet-access mailing list to come under the NANOG umbrella, and then encourage discussions to move to the appropriate list.
I believe that falls under the category of "reinventing the wheel." Besides, two more appropriate lists were already suggested, and inet-access was one of them. -- JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
participants (10)
-
Bill Woodcock -
Dean Anderson -
Jared Mauch -
JC Dill -
just me -
Matthew S. Hallacy -
Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com -
Niels Bakker -
Randy Bush -
Steve Sobol