Hey, Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who are unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP blocks were lumped in with someone somehow... Thanks! -- Ryan Gard
Use cdnetops@netflix.com Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:32 PM, Ryan Gard <ryangard@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey,
Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who are unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP blocks were lumped in with someone somehow...
Thanks!
-- Ryan Gard
To offer some closure on this, after digging up the NOC contact and sending them a lengthy eMail detailing the issue and the ip blocks in question, they were quick to resolve the issue and get the clients up and rolling again. Thanks again for everyone's insight. On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
Use cdnetops@netflix.com
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:32 PM, Ryan Gard <ryangard@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey,
Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who are unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP blocks were lumped in with someone somehow...
Thanks!
-- Ryan Gard
-- Ryan Gard
On Sun 2016-Jan-24 22:32:42 -0500, Ryan Gard <ryangard@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey,
Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who are unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP blocks were lumped in with someone somehow...
Thanks!
We had a similar issue, though in that case we found: 1. The user had been sharing the account between 3 different households across (a) 2 different IP blocks within our network and (b) with a 3rd user on an entirely different ISP in the US (we're in Canada), with multiple devices in use by some locations. 2. The sites across which the same account was being shared had different connectivity options, with one of those having a decent chunk of MTU overhead on the connection (l2tp + pppoe etc.), perhaps raising some flags in Netflix's detection due to smaller MSS? 3. Using the same account on different IPs on the same provider also got blocked. 4. Using a different account on the *exact same IPs* did not have any streaming issues, suggesting Netflix was flagging the account rather than (just) the IPs. Dunno if that helps, but it may be beneficial if Netflix can provide some guidance on the logic in the "this is behind a VPN/proxy" detection (though I am assuming they likely won't disclose that so as not to give away secrets to the other party in the arms race).
-- Ryan Gard
-- Hugo hugo@slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber PGP fingerprint (B178313E): CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E (also on Signal)
26.01.2016, 17:49, "Ryan Gard" <ryangard@gmail.com>:
Hey,
Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who are unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP blocks were lumped in with someone somehow...
Thanks!
-- Ryan Gard
We have noticed the same issue in the last hours, a couple users complaining they were seeing the "You seem to be using an unblocker or proxy. Please turn off any of these services and try again." message. We have worked with Netflix's open connect support guys and found out essentially netflix is trying to determine if the account is reaching their systems from different region other than the contracted one or if from multiple regios at a short period of time, which one could not fly thousand miles in that time window. So how to explain the blocks? Different explanations on different users. One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a conference to Europe (same account, different countries). One other case was related to a user who was at tor, in fact he was an exit node for tor with his share / natted ip address and it looks like someone was else from another account used his ip address as an exit node or he used tor with his account. In the end it was the same case of being at two regions with the same account in a short time window. We also had good insights via telephone support by Netflix at 0800-096-6379 (europe).
On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev <andy.yakov@ya.ru> wrote:
One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be tied closer to the device vs account level. - Jared
On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev <andy.yakov@ya.ru> wrote:
One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be tied closer to the device vs account level.
- Jared
This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT. Owen
especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way abuse and spam reports are handled customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user to contact isp, customer will call isp and level 1 call center rep will say "we can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem, if you are having a issue with a specific service please contact your service provider" and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses welcome to hell :) On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev <andy.yakov@ya.ru> wrote:
One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be tied closer to the device vs account level.
- Jared
This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
Owen
Our (Netflix) call center has been trained on how to handle calls for false positive issues with proxy/VPNs. If you don't achieve an acceptable result, please feel free to reach out - but believe it or not, they are the best ones to handle. -Dave On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:36 AM, chris <tknchris@gmail.com> wrote:
especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way abuse and spam reports are handled
customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user to contact isp, customer will call isp and level 1 call center rep will say "we can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem, if you are having a issue with a specific service please contact your service provider"
and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses
welcome to hell :)
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev <andy.yakov@ya.ru>
wrote:
One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on
a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be tied closer to the device vs account level.
- Jared
This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
Owen
Are you talking about the same people that respond with "What is an IP?" Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Dave Temkin <dave@temk.in> wrote:
Our (Netflix) call center has been trained on how to handle calls for false positive issues with proxy/VPNs. If you don't achieve an acceptable result, please feel free to reach out - but believe it or not, they are the best ones to handle.
-Dave
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:36 AM, chris <tknchris@gmail.com> wrote:
especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way abuse and spam reports are handled
customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user to contact isp, customer will call isp and level 1 call center rep will say "we can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem, if you are having a issue with a specific service please contact your service provider"
and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses
welcome to hell :)
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>
wrote:
On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev <andy.yakov@ya.ru>
wrote:
One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while
on a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be tied closer to the device vs account level.
- Jared
This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
Owen
Having them visit the excellent test-IPv6.com is the best and easiest way to get that info. Jared Mauch
On Jan 27, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
Are you talking about the same people that respond with "What is an IP?"
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Dave Temkin <dave@temk.in> wrote:
Our (Netflix) call center has been trained on how to handle calls for false positive issues with proxy/VPNs. If you don't achieve an acceptable result, please feel free to reach out - but believe it or not, they are the best ones to handle.
-Dave
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:36 AM, chris <tknchris@gmail.com> wrote:
especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way abuse and spam reports are handled
customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user to contact isp, customer will call isp and level 1 call center rep will say "we can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem, if you are having a issue with a specific service please contact your service provider"
and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses
welcome to hell :)
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev <andy.yakov@ya.ru> wrote:
One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be tied closer to the device vs account level.
- Jared
This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
Owen
IPv4 will become a progressively deeper version of hell until we finally turn it off. Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an ISP and you’re not allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem rather than the solution. Owen
On Jan 27, 2016, at 12:36 , chris <tknchris@gmail.com> wrote:
especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way abuse and spam reports are handled
customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user to contact isp, customer will call isp and level 1 call center rep will say "we can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem, if you are having a issue with a specific service please contact your service provider"
and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses
welcome to hell :)
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com <mailto:owen@delong.com>> wrote:
On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net <mailto:jared@puck.nether.net>> wrote:
On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev <andy.yakov@ya.ru <mailto:andy.yakov@ya.ru>> wrote:
One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be tied closer to the device vs account level.
- Jared
This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
Owen
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an ISP and you’re not allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem rather than the solution.
Sure. Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit providers actually PROVIDE IPv6 services. So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching. There are HUGE obstacles in huge parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6. Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an solution at all I'm afraid. -- Chris.
Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box? On 28 Jan 2016 10:17, "Chris Knipe" <savage@savage.za.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an ISP and you’re not allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem rather than the solution.
Sure. Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit providers actually PROVIDE IPv6 services.
So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching. There are HUGE obstacles in huge parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6.
Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an solution at all I'm afraid.
-- Chris.
Highly unlikely... On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Bacon Zombie <baconzombie@gmail.com> wrote:
Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box? On 28 Jan 2016 10:17, "Chris Knipe" <savage@savage.za.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re
an
ISP and you’re not allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem rather than the solution.
Sure. Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit providers actually PROVIDE IPv6 services.
So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching. There are HUGE obstacles in huge parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6.
Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an solution at all I'm afraid.
-- Chris.
-- Regards, Chris Knipe
It is best start with any before moving to all. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bacon Zombie" <baconzombie@gmail.com> To: "Chris Knipe" <savage@savage.za.org> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 7:46:33 AM Subject: Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked? Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box? On 28 Jan 2016 10:17, "Chris Knipe" <savage@savage.za.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an ISP and you’re not allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem rather than the solution.
Sure. Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit providers actually PROVIDE IPv6 services.
So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching. There are HUGE obstacles in huge parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6.
Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an solution at all I'm afraid.
-- Chris.
On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote:
Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on the small sample I did in 2015. Particularly for TV's, software update support goes from trickles to non-existent two years after initial model manufacture. This has been the case with proprietary software. Not sure about more open systems such as WebOS. Mark.
It depends on whether the exact model is being sold after a couple of years, and not superseded by new models. This is the case in the wireless router world, where product churn leaves last year's model an orphan when it comes to updates. Not so much in the OS world, only because the OS doesn't churn that quickly. But look at Windows and its history on support being withdrawn long before the product is useless (or the "new" product is worthless, causing people to hang back on upgrades). I shudder to think what will happen when IoT ramps up significantly. Will the stories we hear today about thermostats failing after a botched upgrade continue, or will the vendors get their act together? On 01/28/2016 06:18 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote:
Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on the small sample I did in 2015.
Particularly for TV's, software update support goes from trickles to non-existent two years after initial model manufacture. This has been the case with proprietary software. Not sure about more open systems such as WebOS.
Mark.
On 28/Jan/16 17:27, Stephen Satchell wrote:
It depends on whether the exact model is being sold after a couple of years, and not superseded by new models. This is the case in the wireless router world, where product churn leaves last year's model an orphan when it comes to updates.
Display manufacturers are pushing new products every year. A product you buy today will be reasonably obsolete 24x months later (by obsolete I mostly mean no more software updates for it). The hope is that if display manufacturers move to more a "common" OS platform, then feature support such as IPv6 and others could be supported on "obsolete" models as long as newer releases of the OS still support the hardware in the older displays (depending on the level of independence between the OS and the hardware vendor, or the openness of the hardware vendor to allow users do what they please with supported OS's). For now, that looks like WebOS, Tizen, e.t.c. Devices that last a little longer (such as game consoles) will receive major updates in the first few years of sale. When the next gaming console is released, the older ones will still be relevant, but then updates will taper to useless things like "disabling of this with Facebook" or "changed the default splash screen". Nothing to improve the fundamental usability of the actual device such as IPv6.
Not so much in the OS world, only because the OS doesn't churn that quickly. But look at Windows and its history on support being withdrawn long before the product is useless (or the "new" product is worthless, causing people to hang back on upgrades).
True, but with Windows, you don't have to change your computer in order to support the newer features. You just have to upgrade to the newer Windows release. My home PC which I bought in 2008 when Windows XP was the thing is now running Windows 10, happily, with full IPv6 support. You can't say the same for hardware made with proprietary OS's that will not get future support because newer hardware is now shipping. Much like the majority of TV's today, as well as the home CPE's you speak of. Mark.
On Jan 28, 2016 08:21, "Mark Tinka" <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote:
Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on the small sample I did in 2015.
I'm curious how you conducted this sample. I happened to have set up a number of Smart TVs at home and for extended family over the past couple of years. They've all supported IPv6 out of the box. It's not a 'feature' any of them listed on their feature list. It was just part of their networking. My home is IPv6 enabled and my TVs are running it just fine. My personal, purely anecdotal experience is limited to Sony, Samsung, and LG smart TVs. But that's a much larger than simply 'non-zero' segment of the smart TV market. And smart TVs as a category aren't all that old. Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6? Scott
If we are still talking about Netflix issues, eventually many of the issues will sort themselves out. As more and more "smart" devices are IPv6 enabled, IPv4 only devices will become rarer and rarer. Thus the CGNAT pools will be shared by less and less accounts. Then again... we may run into the issue Apple ran into with the iPads. They made iPads such that there was no good reason to upgrade. Now 5+ years later, you have a lot of original iPads running around. Imagine the issues if EoL'ed and EoS'ed those iPads. On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Scott Morizot <tmorizot@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 2016 08:21, "Mark Tinka" <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote:
Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on the small sample I did in 2015.
I'm curious how you conducted this sample. I happened to have set up a number of Smart TVs at home and for extended family over the past couple of years. They've all supported IPv6 out of the box. It's not a 'feature' any of them listed on their feature list. It was just part of their networking. My home is IPv6 enabled and my TVs are running it just fine.
My personal, purely anecdotal experience is limited to Sony, Samsung, and LG smart TVs. But that's a much larger than simply 'non-zero' segment of the smart TV market. And smart TVs as a category aren't all that old.
Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
Scott
There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so many TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Crane" <todd.crane@n5tech.com> To: "Scott Morizot" <tmorizot@gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 11:05:52 AM Subject: Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked? If we are still talking about Netflix issues, eventually many of the issues will sort themselves out. As more and more "smart" devices are IPv6 enabled, IPv4 only devices will become rarer and rarer. Thus the CGNAT pools will be shared by less and less accounts. Then again... we may run into the issue Apple ran into with the iPads. They made iPads such that there was no good reason to upgrade. Now 5+ years later, you have a lot of original iPads running around. Imagine the issues if EoL'ed and EoS'ed those iPads. On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Scott Morizot <tmorizot@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 2016 08:21, "Mark Tinka" <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote:
Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on the small sample I did in 2015.
I'm curious how you conducted this sample. I happened to have set up a number of Smart TVs at home and for extended family over the past couple of years. They've all supported IPv6 out of the box. It's not a 'feature' any of them listed on their feature list. It was just part of their networking. My home is IPv6 enabled and my TVs are running it just fine.
My personal, purely anecdotal experience is limited to Sony, Samsung, and LG smart TVs. But that's a much larger than simply 'non-zero' segment of the smart TV market. And smart TVs as a category aren't all that old.
Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
Scott
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so many TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware.
Well the TV is also meaningless if the CPE, and (at the very least) service provider don't support IPv6. And yes, that is unfortunately reality. If you look beyond the US and EU, and maybe Brazil, the rest of the world, unfortunately, is FAR from IPv6 adoption, and that *is* reality. Hence my initial comments... It's going to be many more years, before IPv6 is the "fix" for any real problems currently experienced with IPv4. Sad, but unfortunately, true. -- Chris.
Well, I live in the US and this is a North American specific list (NANOG) and IPv6 is the resolution of those issues for us. I'm not particularly familiar with the state of networking in the rest of the world, so have no idea how much of an issue it is for them. And yes, TVs stick around for a long time, but Smart TV (the kind that does its own streaming) is relatively new category. I haven't personally encountered one that doesn't do IPv6. I'm sure there are some models that don't, but I'm wondering if there's any actual data available on that question. On Jan 28, 2016 11:46, "Chris Knipe" <savage@savage.za.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so many TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware.
Well the TV is also meaningless if the CPE, and (at the very least) service provider don't support IPv6. And yes, that is unfortunately reality. If you look beyond the US and EU, and maybe Brazil, the rest of the world, unfortunately, is FAR from IPv6 adoption, and that *is* reality.
Hence my initial comments... It's going to be many more years, before IPv6 is the "fix" for any real problems currently experienced with IPv4. Sad, but unfortunately, true.
-- Chris.
On Jan 28, 2016, at 09:45 , Chris Knipe <savage@savage.za.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so many TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware.
Well the TV is also meaningless if the CPE, and (at the very least) service provider don't support IPv6. And yes, that is unfortunately reality. If you look beyond the US and EU, and maybe Brazil, the rest of the world, unfortunately, is FAR from IPv6 adoption, and that *is* reality.
Not so much as you claim… It’s true that Africa, middle east, and Russia are in a horrible state. It’s true that India IPv6 deployment is non-existant. However, Canada, Japan, Indonesia and Malaysia have significant IPv6 deployment. China has some (thought not as much as we would all like. Ecuador is doing quite well. Peru has good penetration, but their IPv6 is about as reliable as their IPv4.
Hence my initial comments... It's going to be many more years, before IPv6 is the "fix" for any real problems currently experienced with IPv4. Sad, but unfortunately, true.
I think that the adoption rate in those places will accelerate rather quickly as the true cost of maintaining IPv4 becomes more visible to them. In the US, for example, there were several small deployments at first, then, after trials and such, Comcast and several other large providers went from very little deployment to general availability to nearly 100% of their customers within a few months. I don’t see any reason that can’t happen elsewhere. Especially as the path to IPv6 deployment is becoming more and more well known and more and more experience is shared among operators and technicians. Owen
In message <CA+4TWFtkjkASEG+grECbAv6-fvGT+k-EhXNw5jitDYN3370DtQ@mail.gmail.com>, Chris Knipe writes:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so many TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware.
Well the TV is also meaningless if the CPE, and (at the very least) service provider don't support IPv6. And yes, that is unfortunately reality. If you look beyond the US and EU, and maybe Brazil, the rest of the world, unfortunately, is FAR from IPv6 adoption, and that *is* reality.
$CPE << $TV and CPE are easily replaced with one that supports IPv6 even if it is only via a tunnel initially while you wait for the ISP to deliver IPv6 natively. So requesting IPv6 support in the TV isn't meaningless. The TV will also most probably still be in use when the ISP finally delivers IPv6. Having the devices in the home support IPv6 before the ISP does is how we get 50+% IPv6 traffic the moment the ISP switches on IPv6 / CPE is replaced with one that supports IPv6. The world is waiting for the ISP's to get off their collective backsides and deliver IPv6.
Hence my initial comments... It's going to be many more years, before IPv6 is the "fix" for any real problems currently experienced with IPv4. Sad, but unfortunately, true.
It will only be years if the ISP's let it be years. Your cell phones support IPv6, your desktop/laptop supports IPv6, increasing numbers of TVs, game devices, printers all support IPv6. If random IoT doesn't support IPv6 DON'T BUY IT and complain to the sales person that it doesn't support IPv6. Getting IPv6 support doesn't cost anymore, it just requires one to be a little choosy.
-- Chris. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Scott Morizot wrote:
Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
I just checked a Samsung "smart TV", it's new enough to have 5GHz wifi, I believe the model is 3 years old. http://specsen.com/televisions-samsung/samsung-ue55es6535/ There is no sight of any IPv6 anything in the setup menus, it only displays IPv4 information etc. It's smart enough to support Skype, Youtube and so on, but not smart enough to support IPv6. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
On Jan 28, 2016 12:27, "Mikael Abrahamsson" <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Scott Morizot wrote:
Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
I just checked a Samsung "smart TV", it's new enough to have 5GHz wifi, I
believe the model is 3 years old.
I must have just lucked out on the Sony and LG TVs I bought (2014 and 2015). IPv6 was not one of my purchasing criteria. It was just a pleasant surprise. I could have sworn the two Samsung TVs I set up for extended family last year had IPv6 options, but they didn't have v6 running on their home networks, so I didn't pay that much attention. An odd coincidence, though, especially if most brands/models still don't support v6. Scott
How is IPv6 adoption in Korean and Japan? Maybe that would push these vendors to care more if it impacted them where they lived. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Scott Morizot Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 1:15 PM To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked? On Jan 28, 2016 12:27, "Mikael Abrahamsson" <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Scott Morizot wrote:
Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
I just checked a Samsung "smart TV", it's new enough to have 5GHz wifi, I
believe the model is 3 years old.
I must have just lucked out on the Sony and LG TVs I bought (2014 and 2015). IPv6 was not one of my purchasing criteria. It was just a pleasant surprise. I could have sworn the two Samsung TVs I set up for extended family last year had IPv6 options, but they didn't have v6 running on their home networks, so I didn't pay that much attention. An odd coincidence, though, especially if most brands/models still don't support v6. Scott
If you feel that Google's IPV6 statistics are accurate, this provides a view: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption&tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption Japan: 9.49% South Korea: 1.96% Both of which are significantly better than North Korea's adoption rate of 0% Chris -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Steve Mikulasik Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 4:14 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RE: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked? How is IPv6 adoption in Korean and Japan? Maybe that would push these vendors to care more if it impacted them where they lived. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Scott Morizot Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 1:15 PM To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked? On Jan 28, 2016 12:27, "Mikael Abrahamsson" <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Scott Morizot wrote:
Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
I just checked a Samsung "smart TV", it's new enough to have 5GHz wifi, I
believe the model is 3 years old.
I must have just lucked out on the Sony and LG TVs I bought (2014 and 2015). IPv6 was not one of my purchasing criteria. It was just a pleasant surprise. I could have sworn the two Samsung TVs I set up for extended family last year had IPv6 options, but they didn't have v6 running on their home networks, so I didn't pay that much attention. An odd coincidence, though, especially if most brands/models still don't support v6. Scott
On Jan 28, 2016, at 05:46 , Bacon Zombie <baconzombie@gmail.com> wrote:
Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
Sadly, hardly any so far. A few models from Sony is all so far to the best of my knowledge. However, there is effort continuing on that front and my hat’s off to JJB from Comcast for his effective efforts in this regard. I’ve made some efforts and ARIN has made several efforts as well. The situation is slowly getting better. I believe IPv6 support will be coming to Apple TV soon. I don’t know what the plans (if any) are at TiVO. I’m overdue to hammer on them again.
On 28 Jan 2016 10:17, "Chris Knipe" <savage@savage.za.org <mailto:savage@savage.za.org>> wrote: On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com <mailto:owen@delong.com>> wrote:
Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an ISP and you’re not allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem rather than the solution.
Sure. Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit providers actually PROVIDE IPv6 services.
If you are subscribing to transit providers that don’t provide IPv6, then you should be doing something about that. It’s not like there are no transit providers in ZA that support IPv6. I know for a fact that at least Liquid can deliver IPv6 there. I suspect there are others as well.
So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching. There are HUGE obstacles in huge parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6.
Such as? The only way this gets better is if we actually start taking actions to knock those obstacles down. I’ve done that in lots of places. I’ll continue to do so where I can. There are huge obstacles coming to continuing to use IPv4, too. The difference is that we _CAN_ overcome the obstacles to IPv6 deployment. IPv4 has no such hope.
Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an solution at all I'm afraid.
IPv6 doesn’t solve everything. It solves the shortage of addresses and allows us to side-step the problems with IPv4 CGN and certain other issues that arise as a result of address shortages in IPv4. I’ve never suggested that IPv6 is a solution to anything other than this specific set of problems. However, the set of problems being discussed in this thread does seem to specifically relate to that particular issue. Owen
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Owen DeLong wrote:
I believe IPv6 support will be coming to Apple TV soon. I don’t know what the plans (if any) are at TiVO. I’m overdue to hammer on them again.
Apple TV has had support for IPv6, at least my ATV3 has that. Enough support to confuse the hell out of Netflix GeoIP when some connections came from a swedish IPv4 address and some came from HE IPv6 space that geoIPed to the US for some reason. This was 6+ months ago. I had my space "fixed" by means of someone reporting it manually to their GeoIP provider which seems to have fixed Netflix as well. Haven't had any problems since. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:46:33 +0100, Bacon Zombie said:
Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
Specific data points: The PS/3 and PS/4 consoles do *not* do so. My Vizio TV also apparently does not - it *does* dhcp for an ipv4, but does naught that produces an entry in 'ip neighbor show' on my router on the ipv6 side. I found a Microsoft document that says the Xbox/360 does not do IPv6, but the Xbox One does: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/network/hh994905.aspx That's a lot of legacy consoles.
participants (21)
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Andrey Yakovlev -
Bacon Zombie -
chris -
Chris Adams (IT) -
Chris Knipe -
Crane, Todd -
Dave Temkin -
Hugo Slabbert -
Jared Mauch -
Josh Luthman -
Mark Andrews -
Mark Tinka -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Mike Hammett -
Owen DeLong -
Roland Dobbins -
Ryan Gard -
Scott Morizot -
Stephen Satchell -
Steve Mikulasik -
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