Host for NANOG 14 & modified NANOG Business Model (fwd)
Speaking for myself, nobody else:
From: "William B. Norton" <wbn@merit.edu>
We expect the new registration fee will increase from $150 (which covers the percentages of the 3 NANOG staff) to between $250 and $300 which will cover all catering and A/V costs. This will reduce the local host's financial burden substantially and return the local host role to that of providing local logistics support, the terminal room, and Internet connectivity.
Uhm. My aunt runs a catering business. *Good* weddings are $40 a plate. Two days, $80. Average three snickers bars ($1 each) and 6 cans of pop ($2) and you have a per-person food cost of $85. Shirt $15, youre at $100. This would mean, at 500 participants @ $250, the A/V cost is roughly $125,000.00 for two days? Is ARIN running the A/V dept now? *hides* (Kim we love ya)
We have also been fortunate enough to have companies loan us technology for the event. For example, Bay has loaned routers and hubs and Cabletron has loaned wireless equipment that folks liked so well. Many others have contributed too. The point is, we expect this type of support to continue, so the load on the local host will similarly be reduced by these generous community contributions.
Registration costs just went from $100 to $150, now they're going to $250? With a 250% increase in costs over less than a year, I'd like to see where this money goes.. or even better, costs of previous NANOGs. Not that I don't believe it, I just wonder. -- jamie rishaw (dal/efnet:gavroche) American Information Systems, Inc. Tel:312.425.7140, FAX:312.425.7240 "Could you only justify a Pepsi, but took a Coke anyway?" --> -cjw@corp.home.net to kimh@arin.net, after kimh took the last Coke at NANOG 13
The one thing you're probally forgetting is hotel costs. Rent enough space in a hotel to fit 500 people in. You can't bring outside food into there, you need to use the hotel food. (Or you can, but not in large quantities), unless you're going to bus everyone somewhere else. I'd be interested in seeing the numbers also, but not in a "where the hell are you spending my money" sort of fashion. these things have costs, how many hotel people were there to be our slaves? quite a few. - Jared On Tue, Jun 30, 1998 at 04:16:07PM -0500, James Rishaw wrote:
Speaking for myself, nobody else:
From: "William B. Norton" <wbn@merit.edu>
We expect the new registration fee will increase from $150 (which covers the percentages of the 3 NANOG staff) to between $250 and $300 which will cover all catering and A/V costs. This will reduce the local host's financial burden substantially and return the local host role to that of providing local logistics support, the terminal room, and Internet connectivity.
Uhm.
My aunt runs a catering business. *Good* weddings are $40 a plate. Two days, $80. Average three snickers bars ($1 each) and 6 cans of pop ($2) and you have a per-person food cost of $85. Shirt $15, youre at $100.
This would mean, at 500 participants @ $250, the A/V cost is roughly $125,000.00 for two days? Is ARIN running the A/V dept now? *hides* (Kim we love ya)
We have also been fortunate enough to have companies loan us technology for the event. For example, Bay has loaned routers and hubs and Cabletron has loaned wireless equipment that folks liked so well. Many others have contributed too. The point is, we expect this type of support to continue, so the load on the local host will similarly be reduced by these generous community contributions.
Registration costs just went from $100 to $150, now they're going to $250? With a 250% increase in costs over less than a year, I'd like to see where this money goes.. or even better, costs of previous NANOGs.
Not that I don't believe it, I just wonder.
-- jamie rishaw (dal/efnet:gavroche) American Information Systems, Inc. Tel:312.425.7140, FAX:312.425.7240 "Could you only justify a Pepsi, but took a Coke anyway?" --> -cjw@corp.home.net to kimh@arin.net, after kimh took the last Coke at NANOG 13
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net Nether Net | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/
Jared Mauch wrote:
The one thing you're probally forgetting is hotel costs.
Rent enough space in a hotel to fit 500 people in.
Not that expensive.. especially when you tell them most of these 500 people will be renting rooms there.
You can't bring outside food into there, you need to use the hotel food. (Or you can, but not in large quantities), unless you're going to bus everyone somewhere else.
You can. Just gotta negotiate :)
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers also, but not in a "where the hell are you spending my money" sort of fashion. these things have costs, how many hotel people were there to be our slaves? quite a few.
OK, 15 slaves @ $10/hr * 16 hours (2x8) = $2400, or $4.80 per attendee. 50 slaves @ $10/hr * 16 hours = $16.00 per attendee. That's one personal assistant for every 10 people. :)
On Tue, Jun 30, 1998 at 04:53:14PM -0500, James Rishaw wrote:
Jared Mauch wrote:
The one thing you're probally forgetting is hotel costs.
Rent enough space in a hotel to fit 500 people in.
Not that expensive.. especially when you tell them most of these 500 people will be renting rooms there.
You can't bring outside food into there, you need to use the hotel food. (Or you can, but not in large quantities), unless you're going to bus everyone somewhere else.
You can. Just gotta negotiate :)
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers also, but not in a "where the hell are you spending my money" sort of fashion. these things have costs, how many hotel people were there to be our slaves? quite a few.
OK, 15 slaves @ $10/hr * 16 hours (2x8) = $2400, or $4.80 per attendee.
50 slaves @ $10/hr * 16 hours = $16.00 per attendee. That's one personal assistant for every 10 people. :)
I agree with Jamie. Having negotiated fairly significant conventions before (low-thousands of people) with hotels, and having done several seminars and such at the same kind of venues, this isn't that difficult to do. $250/person (not including accomodations) is outrageous unless there's money being siphoned off or silly things are being done. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
Its amazing to me how much bandwidth is wasted talking about where each dollar goes. If you have real questions then direct them PRIVATELY to those in the know. Personally hosting NANOG 12 was quite an educational experience for us at iHighway.net. I have worked on many shows in the past and NANOG is certainly a different breed. jmbrown@ihighway.net At 05:07 PM 6/30/98 -0500, Karl Denninger wrote:
On Tue, Jun 30, 1998 at 04:53:14PM -0500, James Rishaw wrote:
Jared Mauch wrote:
The one thing you're probally forgetting is hotel costs.
Rent enough space in a hotel to fit 500 people in.
Not that expensive.. especially when you tell them most of these 500 people will be renting rooms there.
You can't bring outside food into there, you need to use the hotel food. (Or you can, but not in large quantities), unless you're going to bus everyone somewhere else.
You can. Just gotta negotiate :)
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers also, but not in a "where the hell are you spending my money" sort of fashion. these things have costs, how many hotel people were there to be our slaves? quite a few.
OK, 15 slaves @ $10/hr * 16 hours (2x8) = $2400, or $4.80 per attendee.
50 slaves @ $10/hr * 16 hours = $16.00 per attendee. That's one personal assistant for every 10 people. :)
I agree with Jamie.
Having negotiated fairly significant conventions before (low-thousands of people) with hotels, and having done several seminars and such at the same kind of venues, this isn't that difficult to do.
$250/person (not including accomodations) is outrageous unless there's money being siphoned off or silly things are being done.
-- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
At 04:53 PM 6/30/98 -0500, James Rishaw wrote:
Jared Mauch wrote:
The one thing you're probally forgetting is hotel costs.
Rent enough space in a hotel to fit 500 people in.
Not that expensive.. especially when you tell them most of these 500 people will be renting rooms there.
So then you would be willing to bay around $180+ per room/nite? Trust me not everyone stays at the hotel. Many are working on tight budgets and have to stay at places that run around 60 to 90 per nite. If your stay/nites don't hit a magic number then they don't discount the meeting space.
You can't bring outside food into there, you need to use the hotel food. (Or you can, but not in large quantities), unless you're going to bus everyone somewhere else.
You can. Just gotta negotiate :)
BTDTGT (Been There Done That, Got the T-Shirt) Understand that a Hotel makes a LARGE portion of their $$ on establishments or food and booze. You can get discounts on meals and such, but if you give in one area you may have to take in another area.
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers also, but not in a "where the hell are you spending my money" sort of fashion. these things have costs, how many hotel people were there to be our slaves? quite a few.
OK, 15 slaves @ $10/hr * 16 hours (2x8) = $2400, or $4.80 per attendee.
Is that $10 loaded including medical, dental, workers comp? By the way how much do you charge your customers to come out and setup there network, or better yet fix it. I mean you pay your tech's what, 20 or 30 per hour, I'd bet you charge more like 60 to 100 per hour :) Bad example on your part.
As the HOST for NANOG 12, I can tell you that the catering costs are quite high. Most hotels hold you captive to using THEIR food, THEIR A/V and such. For example (NANOG 12 Costs) Power Strips were $7 per day per unit We used almost 30 powerstrips LCD Projectors (Laptop to Overhead) rent for around $300 per day per unit Projection Screens rent for about $80 to $120 per day Mic's rent for about $40 per day, plus the cost of the STAND and cable Coffee is $20 per gal. Cokes are $1.75 each Cookies are $1.50 each Lunches were around $20 per plate (at 300 lunches times two days) Then there is the cost of the meeting space, tables, chairs terminal rooms, break-out session rooms, etc. Many things could have been improved at NANOG 12, but its important to note that it was the FIRST real trial of getting the costs DOWN. There is NO WAY iHighway could have done NANOG 12 at the previous costs of over $70K. We were able to do the show for less than $10K. But this was only possible by having companies like Bay, Cisco, Ascend, RedBack Networks, Livingston, Critical Path and others help foot the bill by "Sponsoring" various parts. Personally I don't have a problem with having to pay $200 or $250 for a NANOG event. Heck I still paid my $150 and couldn't even show up to NANOG 13, didn't ask for a refund either cuz I know Bill (MERIT) had costs that needed to be covered. PS: If you go and BRING YOUR OWN equipment the Hotel's will still charge you a butt load, read the contract. And before anyone gets on there HIGH HORSE about were is the money going, let me say one thing. Host NANOG 14 and YOU WILL find out! ::) jmbrown@ihighway.net At 05:37 PM 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
The one thing you're probally forgetting is hotel costs.
Rent enough space in a hotel to fit 500 people in.
You can't bring outside food into there, you need to use the hotel food. (Or you can, but not in large quantities), unless you're going to bus everyone somewhere else.
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers also, but not in a "where the hell are you spending my money" sort of fashion. these things have costs, how many hotel people were there to be our slaves? quite a few.
- Jared
On Tue, Jun 30, 1998 at 04:16:07PM -0500, James Rishaw wrote:
Speaking for myself, nobody else:
From: "William B. Norton" <wbn@merit.edu>
We expect the new registration fee will increase from $150 (which covers the percentages of the 3 NANOG staff) to between $250 and $300 which will cover all catering and A/V costs. This will reduce the local host's financial burden substantially and return the local host role to that of providing local logistics support, the terminal room, and Internet connectivity.
Uhm.
My aunt runs a catering business. *Good* weddings are $40 a plate. Two days, $80. Average three snickers bars ($1 each) and 6 cans of pop ($2) and you have a per-person food cost of $85. Shirt $15, youre at $100.
This would mean, at 500 participants @ $250, the A/V cost is roughly $125,000.00 for two days? Is ARIN running the A/V dept now? *hides* (Kim we love ya)
We have also been fortunate enough to have companies loan us technology
for
the event. For example, Bay has loaned routers and hubs and Cabletron has loaned wireless equipment that folks liked so well. Many others have contributed too. The point is, we expect this type of support to continue, so the load on the local host will similarly be reduced by these generous community contributions.
Registration costs just went from $100 to $150, now they're going to $250? With a 250% increase in costs over less than a year, I'd like to see where this money goes.. or even better, costs of previous NANOGs.
Not that I don't believe it, I just wonder.
-- jamie rishaw (dal/efnet:gavroche) American Information Systems, Inc. Tel:312.425.7140, FAX:312.425.7240 "Could you only justify a Pepsi, but took a Coke anyway?" --> -cjw@corp.home.net to kimh@arin.net, after kimh took the last Coke at NANOG 13
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net Nether Net | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/
participants (4)
-
jamie＠dilbert.ais.net -
Jared Mauch -
jmbrown＠ihighway.net -
Karl Denninger