FCC: rulemaking on STIR/SHAKEN and Caller ID Authentication
At this month's FCC rulemaking meeting, it will consider https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-announces-tentative-agenda-september-open-m... Promoting Caller ID Authentication to Combat Spoofed Robocalls – The Commission will consider a Report and Order that would continue its work to implement the TRACED Act and promote the deployment of caller ID authentication technology to combat spoofed robocalls. (WC Docket No. 17-97)
On 9/10/20 9:49 AM, Sean Donelan wrote:
At this month's FCC rulemaking meeting, it will consider
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-announces-tentative-agenda-september-open-m...
Promoting Caller ID Authentication to Combat Spoofed Robocalls – The Commission will consider a Report and Order that would continue its work to implement the TRACED Act and promote the deployment of caller ID authentication technology to combat spoofed robocalls. (WC Docket No. 17-97)
So I have a question: what percentage of traffic in the US is really coming from the legacy PSTN? My understanding is that it's pretty low these days. If that's true, it seems to me that this is a SIP problem, not an e.164 problem. Mike
99%? If a phone number was used than the PSTN was used. The fact that SIP is involved in part or all of the call path is not very relevant except for peer-to-peer stuff like whatsapp, skype, signal, telegram, etc. (and even those don't use SIP, but I think you meant voip more than SIP specifically) Even some of those can use e.164 for part or all of the path. I do believe that if the robo call/scam/fraudulent call issue does not get resolved people may eventually start to give up and just use apps like that. Many probably have already. *Brandon Svec* *15106862204 <15106862204> voice|sms**teamonesolutions.com <https://teamonesolutions.com/>* On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 1:11 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
On 9/10/20 9:49 AM, Sean Donelan wrote:
At this month's FCC rulemaking meeting, it will consider
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-announces-tentative-agenda-september-open-m...
Promoting Caller ID Authentication to Combat Spoofed Robocalls – The Commission will consider a Report and Order that would continue its work to implement the TRACED Act and promote the deployment of caller ID authentication technology to combat spoofed robocalls. (WC Docket No. 17-97)
So I have a question: what percentage of traffic in the US is really coming from the legacy PSTN? My understanding is that it's pretty low these days.
If that's true, it seems to me that this is a SIP problem, not an e.164 problem.
Mike
I think people are making a distinction between the traditional way the PSTN works and direct interconnections\Neutral Tandem\Peerless\etc. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Svec" <bsvec@teamonesolutions.com> To: "North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 3:56:00 PM Subject: Re: FCC: rulemaking on STIR/SHAKEN and Caller ID Authentication 99%? If a phone number was used than the PSTN was used. The fact that SIP is involved in part or all of the call path is not very relevant except for peer-to-peer stuff like whatsapp, skype, signal, telegram, etc. (and even those don't use SIP, but I think you meant voip more than SIP specifically) Even some of those can use e.164 for part or all of the path. I do believe that if the robo call/scam/fraudulent call issue does not get resolved people may eventually start to give up and just use apps like that. Many probably have already. Brandon Svec 15106862204 voice|sms teamonesolutions.com On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 1:11 PM Michael Thomas < mike@mtcc.com > wrote: On 9/10/20 9:49 AM, Sean Donelan wrote:
At this month's FCC rulemaking meeting, it will consider
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-announces-tentative-agenda-september-open-m...
Promoting Caller ID Authentication to Combat Spoofed Robocalls – The Commission will consider a Report and Order that would continue its work to implement the TRACED Act and promote the deployment of caller ID authentication technology to combat spoofed robocalls. (WC Docket No. 17-97)
So I have a question: what percentage of traffic in the US is really coming from the legacy PSTN? My understanding is that it's pretty low these days. If that's true, it seems to me that this is a SIP problem, not an e.164 problem. Mike
On 9/10/20 1:56 PM, Brandon Svec wrote:
99%? If a phone number was used than the PSTN was used. The fact that SIP is involved in part or all of the call path is not very relevant except for peer-to-peer stuff like whatsapp, skype, signal, telegram, etc. (and even those don't use SIP, but I think you meant voip more than SIP specifically) Even some of those can use e.164 for part or all of the path.
I do believe that if the robo call/scam/fraudulent call issue does not get resolved people may eventually start to give up and just use apps like that. Many probably have already.
We're probably not communicating because lots of carriers are using VoLTE which SIP end to end, so that is a lot more that 1%. I know that my local telco uses SIP over fiber at the little pedestal which terminates POTS and never touches SS7 anything from what I can tell. e.164 addresses are a relic of legacy telephony signalling, even if they're still used to make the user part of a From: address. Mike
On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 7:24 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
We're probably not communicating because lots of carriers are using VoLTE which SIP end to end,
it's likely SIP end-to-end on the singular platform at that carrier (LTE), but if the termination gets to 'not LTE' handsets, it's not SIP anymore. If the call exits that carrier, it's not guaranteed to remain SIP all the way either.
so that is a lot more that 1%. I know that my local telco uses SIP over fiber at the little pedestal which terminates POTS and never touches SS7 anything from what I can tell. e.164 addresses are a relic of legacy telephony signalling, even if they're still used to make the user part of a From: address.
What's the thing that matters here though? "The call originator's 'true' identifying data can be carried through the network to the recipient" and that: "decisions about termination of the call can be made reliably based on the call source originator identification information" right? Can that be done on the PSTN or the SIP-parts-of-PSTN or 'sip over the wild internet' ? yes, if you require your interconnect partners to not tell lies...
A *LOT* goes through at least one TDM transition (so you can kiss that identity header goodbye). None of the big names in long distance termination support STIR/SHAKEN. There's about 4-5 that will do STIR/SHAKEN outside of testbed connectivity (my employer is one). One big name is still using a self signed certificate to sign their STIR/SHAKEN calls, it'll expire in a couple weeks so they should figure life out quickly. I won't shame them here. The lions share of intercarrier traffic won't go through SIP until the big ILECs are required to interconnect over SIP in reasonable and non-discriminatory ways. I'm not holding my breath. (AT&T Wireless and Verizon Wireless hide behind their respective landline networks generally, and without SIP connectivity to those, you won't be getting green checkmark calls to people on the two largest wireless carriers outside of private testbed connectivity anytime soon) https://authenticate.iconectiv.com/authorized-service-providers-authenticate -Paul On 9/10/20 4:09 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
On 9/10/20 9:49 AM, Sean Donelan wrote:
At this month's FCC rulemaking meeting, it will consider
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-announces-tentative-agenda-september-open-m...
Promoting Caller ID Authentication to Combat Spoofed Robocalls – The Commission will consider a Report and Order that would continue its work to implement the TRACED Act and promote the deployment of caller ID authentication technology to combat spoofed robocalls. (WC Docket No. 17-97)
So I have a question: what percentage of traffic in the US is really coming from the legacy PSTN? My understanding is that it's pretty low these days.
If that's true, it seems to me that this is a SIP problem, not an e.164 problem.
Mike
participants (6)
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Brandon Svec -
Christopher Morrow -
Michael Thomas -
Mike Hammett -
Paul Timmins -
Sean Donelan