Mystery open source switching company claims top-of-rack price edge (was Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch)
Hello, For your information : http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/102810-pica8-opensource-switching.html... Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com 2010/10/19 Lin Pica8 <pica8.org@gmail.com>:
Hello,
To have a better overview of a Cloud (or OpenFlow) Switch, I would greatly appreciate to invite you to a further reading of the presentation entitled "FI technologies on cloud computing and trusty networking" from our partner, Chunghwa Telecom (Leading ISP in Taiwan) :
http://www.asiafi.net/meeting/2010/summerschool/p/chu.pdf
Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com
2010/10/18 Lin Pica8 <pica8.org@gmail.com>:
Hello,
We are starting to distribute Pica8 Open Source Cloud Switches :
Especially, a Pica8 Switch with the following specifications (including Open Source Firmware) :
-HW : 48x1Gbps + 4x10 Gbps
-Firmware : L2/L3 management for VLAN, LACP, STP/RSTP, LLDP, OSPF, RIP, static route, PIM-SM, VRRP, IGMP, IGMP Snooping, IPv6, Radius/Tacacs+ as well as OpenFlow 1.0
would compete with a Cisco Catalyst 2960-S, Model WS-C2960S-48TD-L for half the price (~2k USD).
Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com
Hello,
For your information :
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/102810-pica8-opensource-switching.html...
your spam is getting annoying randy
plonk 2010/10/30 Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>:
Hello,
For your information :
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/102810-pica8-opensource-switching.html...
your spam is getting annoying
randy
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 03:28 +0900, Randy Bush wrote:
plonk ... goes your custom Marketing by annoyance, smoke, and mirrors? Gotta love the strategy
do not buy from spammers
...goes without saying. I'm just wondering if this a guerilla launch for some new Oracle product or project, or what, exactly? I'm _very_ confused. Maybe Paul K. can clear it all up, but apparently he's out of the office right now. Meanwhile, I'm failing to see a product, figures, source code, or more to the point, any operational aspect at all in any of these ad-spam posts. Consider this a formal request for root-plink, before we have a major corp try to sell us a database solution or proprietary kernel via the list. <sigh> Gord --
Buy you glasses and a book about network engineering ;) !
Meanwhile, I'm failing to see a product
http://www.pica8.org/products/pronto-3780
source code
http://sourceforge.net/p/xorplus/home/
or more to the point, any operational aspect at all in any of these ad-spam posts.
Pica natively runs Linux and the code is Open Source. So, you can not only run 3rd party code (like with Cisco AXP, Juniper Junos SDK or Arista EOS), but also modify the Networking Stack according to your needs that is a very interesting feature from an Operational point of view and something that is not possible with closed source OS like EOS, JUNOS and IOS. Vyatta tries to make also an Open-Source Networking product but the bottleneck is *the performance*. The target is to attack Cisco by the bottom. Especially, there are a lot of small operators (like the members of the NANOG) who are interested by low-cost gear. To be more precise, Cisco doesn't loose any significant Market Share due to the second market (used equipment) that is worth many billions each year according to the UNEDA (United Network Equipment Dealer Association). They can't buy the latest Cisco gear but they are still used to Cisco, because they buy refurbished Cisco gear. Pica8 provides its first significant breakthrough there : to have an access to the latest networking gear for the price of the refurbished one. That is *$ 200 per 10G port* or half the price of the closest competitor, Blade Network Technologies. We definitely believe that a new networking product should only focus on the Capex in the first place then think about the Opex in a second step (OpenFlow). Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com 2010/10/30 gordon b slater <gordslater@ieee.org>:
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 03:28 +0900, Randy Bush wrote:
plonk ... goes your custom Marketing by annoyance, smoke, and mirrors? Gotta love the strategy
do not buy from spammers
...goes without saying.
I'm just wondering if this a guerilla launch for some new Oracle product or project, or what, exactly? I'm _very_ confused.
Maybe Paul K. can clear it all up, but apparently he's out of the office right now.
Meanwhile, I'm failing to see a product, figures, source code, or more to the point, any operational aspect at all in any of these ad-spam posts.
Consider this a formal request for root-plink, before we have a major corp try to sell us a database solution or proprietary kernel via the list.
<sigh>
Gord --
On Sat, 2010-10-30 at 21:05 +0200, Lin Pica8 wrote:
Buy you glasses and a book about network engineering ;) !
eat your own words "in any of these ad-spam posts" Now get out, and stay out, of my NOCs Gord
What interests me is that they can't even be bothered to set up their own mail server, or at the very least to use Google Apps for mail.
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 03:28:25 +0900 From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
plonk ... goes your custom Marketing by annoyance, smoke, and mirrors? Gotta love the strategy
do not buy from spammers
I might also mention that I received private SPAM from a name we all know and loath. (Hint: He's been banned from NANOG for VERY good reason and his name is of French derivation.) I just added a filter to block any mail mentioning pica8 and will see no more of this thread or their spam. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751
Hi, On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Kevin Oberman <oberman@es.net> wrote:
I might also mention that I received private SPAM from a name we all know and loath. (Hint: He's been banned from NANOG for VERY good reason and his name is of French derivation.) I just added a filter to block any mail mentioning pica8 and will see no more of this thread or their spam.
Same here. He harvests email addresses from peeringdb. (I have slight typo's in my peeringdb record to recognize harvested spams.) Bas
I don't know what the big deal is. I've rolled at least 20 of these switches into my network, and not only are they more stable than the Centillion switches that they replaced, they only cost half as much. Most of the money I dropped was on converting my stations from token ring to ethernet. On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:59 PM, bas <kilobit@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Kevin Oberman <oberman@es.net> wrote:
I might also mention that I received private SPAM from a name we all know and loath. (Hint: He's been banned from NANOG for VERY good reason and his name is of French derivation.) I just added a filter to block any mail mentioning pica8 and will see no more of this thread or their spam.
Same here. He harvests email addresses from peeringdb. (I have slight typo's in my peeringdb record to recognize harvested spams.)
Bas
Hi Paul, On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:07 AM, Paul WALL <pauldotwall@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know what the big deal is. I've rolled at least 20 of these switches into my network, and not only are they more stable than the Centillion switches that they replaced, they only cost half as much. Most of the money I dropped was on converting my stations from token ring to ethernet.
All of the people that responded to this thread are not complaining about the hardware. They are complaining about Guillaume's spam strategy. Other than that are you comparing apples to apples when you compare Nortel ATM switches (with EOL somewhere in 2004) with new ethernet hardware? Bas
On 10/31/2010 10:25 PM, bas wrote:
Other than that are you comparing apples to apples when you compare Nortel ATM switches (with EOL somewhere in 2004) with new ethernet hardware?
Nortel Centillion... had a cold chill run up my spine just thinking back about it... shadows of Synoptics... and Bay... sheesh... :-) Is this a commemorative Scary Halloween Ghost story? Watch y'er language folks :-) Jeff
On Oct 31, 2010, at 19:25, bas <kilobit@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:07 AM, Paul WALL <pauldotwall@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know what the big deal is. I've rolled at least 20 of these switches into my network, and not only are they more stable than the Centillion switches that they replaced, they only cost half as much. Most of the money I dropped was on converting my stations from token ring to ethernet.
All of the people that responded to this thread are not complaining about the hardware. They are complaining about Guillaume's spam strategy.
Other than that are you comparing apples to apples when you compare Nortel ATM switches (with EOL somewhere in 2004) with new ethernet hardware?
DJ Paul Wall only recently upgraded from FDDI...
Bas
Other than that are you comparing apples to apples when you compare Nortel ATM switches (with EOL somewhere in 2004) with new ethernet hardware?
arista rulz tos
off topic… you recently converted from token ring to ethernet? i had no idea there was still token ring networks out there, or am i living in a bubble? -g On Oct 31, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Paul WALL wrote:
I don't know what the big deal is. I've rolled at least 20 of these switches into my network, and not only are they more stable than the Centillion switches that they replaced, they only cost half as much. Most of the money I dropped was on converting my stations from token ring to ethernet.
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:59 PM, bas <kilobit@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Kevin Oberman <oberman@es.net> wrote:
I might also mention that I received private SPAM from a name we all know and loath. (Hint: He's been banned from NANOG for VERY good reason and his name is of French derivation.) I just added a filter to block any mail mentioning pica8 and will see no more of this thread or their spam.
Same here. He harvests email addresses from peeringdb. (I have slight typo's in my peeringdb record to recognize harvested spams.)
Bas
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On 01/11/2010 15:21, Greg Whynott wrote:
you recently converted from token ring to ethernet? i had no idea there was still token ring networks out there, or am i living in a bubble?
Sadly, you're living in a bubble. As long as there are banks and very large commercial institutions, there will be legacy installations. Including t/r. And OS/2. And windows NT 3.51. And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol, type of hardware and ancient operating system that ever existed. Why do you think the Cisco 7500 only went EoS 3 years ago? Nick
Halloween is over, why do you have to keep saying scary things like that.. (even if it is true, unfortunately) -Richard -----Original Message----- From: Nick Hilliard [mailto:nick@foobar.org] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:48 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Token ring? topic hijack: was Re: Mystery open source switching On 01/11/2010 15:21, Greg Whynott wrote:
you recently converted from token ring to ethernet? i had no idea there was still token ring networks out there, or am i living in a bubble?
Sadly, you're living in a bubble. As long as there are banks and very large commercial institutions, there will be legacy installations. Including t/r. And OS/2. And windows NT 3.51. And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol, type of hardware and ancient operating system that ever existed. Why do you think the Cisco 7500 only went EoS 3 years ago? Nick
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4. --Chris
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
http://www.ram.nl/nl/aanbieder_van_mobiele_datacommunicatie/diensten/netwerk... also: yep. commercial x.25 based packet radio networks, and the wired parts to keep them together, are still around. (the non-commercial ones also ofcourse ;) -- Greetings, Sven Olaf Kamphuis, CB3ROB Ltd. & Co. KG ========================================================================= Address: Koloniestrasse 34 VAT Tax ID: DE267268209 D-13359 Registration: HRA 42834 B BERLIN Phone: +31/(0)87-8747479 Germany GSM: +49/(0)152-26410799 RIPE: CBSK1-RIPE e-Mail: sven@cb3rob.net ========================================================================= <penpen> C3P0, der elektrische Westerwelle http://www.facebook.com/cb3rob ========================================================================= Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Chris Boyd wrote:
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
--Chris
doesn't most of SMS (the crap on GSM's) also run on x.25? i recall some customer of mine talking X.25 to a telco to get their messages to the phones anyway. same for one of our banks not so very long ago... On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
http://www.ram.nl/nl/aanbieder_van_mobiele_datacommunicatie/diensten/netwerk...
also: yep.
commercial x.25 based packet radio networks, and the wired parts to keep them together, are still around.
(the non-commercial ones also ofcourse ;)
-- Greetings,
Sven Olaf Kamphuis, CB3ROB Ltd. & Co. KG ========================================================================= Address: Koloniestrasse 34 VAT Tax ID: DE267268209 D-13359 Registration: HRA 42834 B BERLIN Phone: +31/(0)87-8747479 Germany GSM: +49/(0)152-26410799 RIPE: CBSK1-RIPE e-Mail: sven@cb3rob.net ========================================================================= <penpen> C3P0, der elektrische Westerwelle http://www.facebook.com/cb3rob =========================================================================
Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Chris Boyd wrote:
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
--Chris
There used to be quite substantial usage of X.25 in Brazil, for a lot longer than usual, for POS transactions. x.28 in fact, that would be PAD to X.25, may still be the case ? (RENPAC and 3028 come to mind) The management of some Nortel GSM devices also could be done over X.25, usually, it would be backhauled over XOT (or in this case, the Nortel equivalent) to the management station, from the devices (I'm happy to say, I don't remember if from the BSCs, or BTSs). Of course, QLLC and running QLLC to LLC (token ring) devices, was the cherry on top..SNA on top of X.25, converting to token ring SNA.. Somehow, I can't get rid of the nightmares and the waking in the middle of the night, thinking about LAPB, and Clear codes and etc., LUs and PUs...the horror...the horror.. On Nov 2, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
doesn't most of SMS (the crap on GSM's) also run on x.25?
i recall some customer of mine talking X.25 to a telco to get their messages to the phones anyway.
same for one of our banks not so very long ago...
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
http://www.ram.nl/nl/aanbieder_van_mobiele_datacommunicatie/diensten/netwerk...
also: yep.
commercial x.25 based packet radio networks, and the wired parts to keep them together, are still around.
(the non-commercial ones also ofcourse ;)
-- Greetings,
Sven Olaf Kamphuis, CB3ROB Ltd. & Co. KG ========================================================================= Address: Koloniestrasse 34 VAT Tax ID: DE267268209 D-13359 Registration: HRA 42834 B BERLIN Phone: +31/(0)87-8747479 Germany GSM: +49/(0)152-26410799 RIPE: CBSK1-RIPE e-Mail: sven@cb3rob.net ========================================================================= <penpen> C3P0, der elektrische Westerwelle http://www.facebook.com/cb3rob =========================================================================
Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Chris Boyd wrote:
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4. --Chris
X.25 is very useful for non TCP applications, especially in places where the infrastructure is less-than-modern. X.25 used as a layer 2 transport (even though it is not technically a L2 protocol, but then neither is ATM) is useful because it has error checking. -- TTFN, patrick On Nov 2, 2010, at 4:34 PM, Julio Arruda wrote:
There used to be quite substantial usage of X.25 in Brazil, for a lot longer than usual, for POS transactions. x.28 in fact, that would be PAD to X.25, may still be the case ? (RENPAC and 3028 come to mind)
The management of some Nortel GSM devices also could be done over X.25, usually, it would be backhauled over XOT (or in this case, the Nortel equivalent) to the management station, from the devices (I'm happy to say, I don't remember if from the BSCs, or BTSs). Of course, QLLC and running QLLC to LLC (token ring) devices, was the cherry on top..SNA on top of X.25, converting to token ring SNA..
Somehow, I can't get rid of the nightmares and the waking in the middle of the night, thinking about LAPB, and Clear codes and etc., LUs and PUs...the horror...the horror..
On Nov 2, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
doesn't most of SMS (the crap on GSM's) also run on x.25?
i recall some customer of mine talking X.25 to a telco to get their messages to the phones anyway.
same for one of our banks not so very long ago...
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
http://www.ram.nl/nl/aanbieder_van_mobiele_datacommunicatie/diensten/netwerk...
also: yep.
commercial x.25 based packet radio networks, and the wired parts to keep them together, are still around.
(the non-commercial ones also ofcourse ;)
-- Greetings,
Sven Olaf Kamphuis, CB3ROB Ltd. & Co. KG ========================================================================= Address: Koloniestrasse 34 VAT Tax ID: DE267268209 D-13359 Registration: HRA 42834 B BERLIN Phone: +31/(0)87-8747479 Germany GSM: +49/(0)152-26410799 RIPE: CBSK1-RIPE e-Mail: sven@cb3rob.net ========================================================================= <penpen> C3P0, der elektrische Westerwelle http://www.facebook.com/cb3rob =========================================================================
Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Chris Boyd wrote:
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4. --Chris
if you can live with the rather small mtu :P On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
X.25 is very useful for non TCP applications, especially in places where the infrastructure is less-than-modern.
X.25 used as a layer 2 transport (even though it is not technically a L2 protocol, but then neither is ATM) is useful because it has error checking.
-- TTFN, patrick
On Nov 2, 2010, at 4:34 PM, Julio Arruda wrote:
There used to be quite substantial usage of X.25 in Brazil, for a lot longer than usual, for POS transactions. x.28 in fact, that would be PAD to X.25, may still be the case ? (RENPAC and 3028 come to mind)
The management of some Nortel GSM devices also could be done over X.25, usually, it would be backhauled over XOT (or in this case, the Nortel equivalent) to the management station, from the devices (I'm happy to say, I don't remember if from the BSCs, or BTSs). Of course, QLLC and running QLLC to LLC (token ring) devices, was the cherry on top..SNA on top of X.25, converting to token ring SNA..
Somehow, I can't get rid of the nightmares and the waking in the middle of the night, thinking about LAPB, and Clear codes and etc., LUs and PUs...the horror...the horror..
On Nov 2, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
doesn't most of SMS (the crap on GSM's) also run on x.25?
i recall some customer of mine talking X.25 to a telco to get their messages to the phones anyway.
same for one of our banks not so very long ago...
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
http://www.ram.nl/nl/aanbieder_van_mobiele_datacommunicatie/diensten/netwerk...
also: yep.
commercial x.25 based packet radio networks, and the wired parts to keep them together, are still around.
(the non-commercial ones also ofcourse ;)
-- Greetings,
Sven Olaf Kamphuis, CB3ROB Ltd. & Co. KG ========================================================================= Address: Koloniestrasse 34 VAT Tax ID: DE267268209 D-13359 Registration: HRA 42834 B BERLIN Phone: +31/(0)87-8747479 Germany GSM: +49/(0)152-26410799 RIPE: CBSK1-RIPE e-Mail: sven@cb3rob.net ========================================================================= <penpen> C3P0, der elektrische Westerwelle http://www.facebook.com/cb3rob =========================================================================
Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Chris Boyd wrote:
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4. --Chris
On 11/2/2010 3:49 PM, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
http://www.ram.nl/nl/aanbieder_van_mobiele_datacommunicatie/diensten/netwerk...
also: yep.
commercial x.25 based packet radio networks, and the wired parts to keep them together, are still around.
(the non-commercial ones also ofcourse ;)
The last I knew all the ATM (Automated Teller Machines) all ran on X.25 --Curtis
I sure am glad to see that I'm not the only crazy/dinosaur lurking on this list! It really gives me hope for the future! Of course to do this job right, a good memory help, and being crazy is nearly a prerequisite to last! :-) Gary B On 11/04/2010 10:52 AM, Curtis Maurand wrote:
On 11/2/2010 3:49 PM, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
http://www.ram.nl/nl/aanbieder_van_mobiele_datacommunicatie/diensten/netwerk...
also: yep.
commercial x.25 based packet radio networks, and the wired parts to keep them together, are still around.
(the non-commercial ones also ofcourse ;)
The last I knew all the ATM (Automated Teller Machines) all ran on X.25
--Curtis
On 11/4/10 9:09 AM, Gary Baribault wrote:
I sure am glad to see that I'm not the only crazy/dinosaur lurking on this list! It really gives me hope for the future!
Of course to do this job right, a good memory help, and being crazy is nearly a prerequisite to last!:-)
I know several people locally who still do legacy setups, and they make pretty decent money, given the fact that many of the people who have intimate knowledge of the mainframe era and such are long gone. One of my former customers used to use 10Base2 in their factory to do an ethernet link across the production floor that couldn't be done cheaply with fiber and that regular ethernet would have interference problems. Me, I've got PhoneNet and LocalTalk wiring for when I do work on my classic Macs. My cute little SE/30 can route MacIP at a blistering 230kbps for these older systems. I've also got these really nice SCSI to Ethernet adapters which comes in handy when all else fails. :) As for legacy technology, I've got a Cisco 7507 loaded to the gills with every type of interface card we could get (never know when you might need a channelized T3 for something), a 6009 loaded with 10/100 interfaces, 7204 (in use) for routing T1s, a 1600 series routing another T1, a 1000 sitting on the shelf as a spare for the 1600... Oh, and then there's the Netopia R9100s and R5300s back from the late 90s/early 2000s... There's always a place for old technology, esp. when newer technology falls flat on its face so often. :-) -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
This is bringing back memories of DecNet and LAT, not good ones either. ;) On 11/04/2010 12:38 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote:
On 11/4/10 9:09 AM, Gary Baribault wrote:
I sure am glad to see that I'm not the only crazy/dinosaur lurking on this list! It really gives me hope for the future!
Of course to do this job right, a good memory help, and being crazy is nearly a prerequisite to last!:-)
I know several people locally who still do legacy setups, and they make pretty decent money, given the fact that many of the people who have intimate knowledge of the mainframe era and such are long gone.
One of my former customers used to use 10Base2 in their factory to do an ethernet link across the production floor that couldn't be done cheaply with fiber and that regular ethernet would have interference problems.
Me, I've got PhoneNet and LocalTalk wiring for when I do work on my classic Macs. My cute little SE/30 can route MacIP at a blistering 230kbps for these older systems. I've also got these really nice SCSI to Ethernet adapters which comes in handy when all else fails. :)
As for legacy technology, I've got a Cisco 7507 loaded to the gills with every type of interface card we could get (never know when you might need a channelized T3 for something), a 6009 loaded with 10/100 interfaces, 7204 (in use) for routing T1s, a 1600 series routing another T1, a 1000 sitting on the shelf as a spare for the 1600... Oh, and then there's the Netopia R9100s and R5300s back from the late 90s/early 2000s...
There's always a place for old technology, esp. when newer technology falls flat on its face so often. :-)
On 11/4/10 1:22 PM, Jason LeBlanc wrote:
This is bringing back memories of DecNet and LAT, not good ones either.
LAT... I think I've seen one network with that in actual use - I believe it was coupled with uniplex and IBM 5250 serial terminals (going back to the mid 90s). I now finally understand why the sysadmin there (a woman, which was rare in a male dominated field) was always exhausted, stressed, and wanting to throw terminals out the front door. :) -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Curtis Maurand wrote:
On 11/2/2010 3:49 PM, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
http://www.ram.nl/nl/aanbieder_van_mobiele_datacommunicatie/diensten/netwerk...
also: yep.
commercial x.25 based packet radio networks, and the wired parts to keep them together, are still around.
(the non-commercial ones also ofcourse ;)
The last I knew all the ATM (Automated Teller Machines) all ran on X.25
No. I configured ATMs over Frame Relay over a decade ago. Although I would be surprised if some ATMs did not use X.25 to this day. Most do run SNA - or at least did. -- TTFN, patrick
On 11/2/2010 12:43 PM, Chris Boyd wrote:
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
I can say that there are, yes. They are in some gov't and quasi-gov't installations, but they were there, last I looked (and that was very recent). There are probably others, too, but I don't normally look for such things. -- Finding a needle in a haystack is a lot easier if you burn down the haystack and scan the ashes with a metal detector. (Silicon Valley Tarot: Steve Jackson Games)
--- On Tue, 11/2/10, Lynda <shrdlu@deaddrop.org> wrote:
From: Lynda <shrdlu@deaddrop.org> Subject: Re: Token ring? topic hijack: was Re: Mystery open source switching To: nanog@nanog.org Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 12:51 PM On 11/2/2010 12:43 PM, Chris Boyd wrote:
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy
protocol
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
I can say that there are, yes. They are in some gov't and quasi-gov't installations, but they were there, last I looked (and that was very recent). There are probably others, too, but I don't normally look for such things.
-- Finding a needle in a haystack is a lot easier if you burn down the haystack and scan the ashes with a metal detector. (Silicon Valley Tarot: Steve Jackson Games)
I don't doubt that, just like I am inclined to believe there are GDC Apex switches on 4.0 with TAXI interfaces still in place.
At 03:43 PM 11/2/2010, Chris Boyd wrote:
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation?
DATAPAC in Canada was running at least until Jan of this year. The price per month kept getting turned up and up and up and up to "encourage" the last users to migrate away. By the end, I think all that was left were various banking / POS applications. I seem to recall the price around $1,500 a month at the end. ---Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Sentex Communications, mike@sentex.net Providing Internet since 1994 www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada www.sentex.net/mike
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Chris Boyd <cboyd@gizmopartners.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol
Are there still any commercial X.25 nets in operation? I had some peripheral involvement with Tymnet in the MCI/Concert conversion, and hear it shut down sometime in 2003-4.
I think the ex-compuserve x.25 stuff is still operational... some of it was transitioned to IP links not x.25 (for the core links) but some x.25 tails existed as near as I knew (3 years ago) -chris
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, Nick Hilliard wrote:
On 01/11/2010 15:21, Greg Whynott wrote:
you recently converted from token ring to ethernet? i had no idea there was still token ring networks out there, or am i living in a bubble?
Sadly, you're living in a bubble. As long as there are banks and very large commercial institutions, there will be legacy installations. Including t/r. And OS/2. And windows NT 3.51. And FDDI and X.25 and every single legacy protocol, type of hardware and ancient operating system that ever existed.
The only example of a technology that comes to mind straight away that truly died out is/was SMDS, though I'm sure there are are a few others.
From what I remember, only a handful of telcos offered SMDS back in its heyday (mid-90s), and most, if not all of those no longer offer it. I recall seeing some tariff filings from Verizon some time ago where they were planning to shut the service off because the customers that used it had been migrated to other technologies and some of their vendors had already dropped support for it.
jms
The only example of a technology that comes to mind straight away that truly died out is/was SMDS, though I'm sure there are are a few others.
From what I remember, only a handful of telcos offered SMDS back in its
heyday (mid-90s), and most, if not all of those no longer offer it. I recall seeing some tariff filings from Verizon some time ago where they were planning to shut the service off because the customers that used it had been migrated to other technologies and some of their vendors had already dropped support for it. My workplace migrated the last customer off SMDS maybe about 2 or 3 years ago, but most of them were moved several years before that. My understanding is Vz could no longer buy gear to support SMDS and
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Justin M. Streiner <streiner@cluebyfour.org> wrote: pretty much had to cannibalize existing equipment to keep it running. At one point when we still had 40-some customers on one SMDS DS3 hub circuit, we had an outage that spanned 3 days (fortunately into a weekend). Vz seemed to have only a few techs who were clueful on smds and, unless we were working with one of them, very often our techs would have to instruct Vz what to do (typically reloading all the addresses would restore service, IIRC).
On Thu, 4 Nov 2010, Jay Farrell wrote:
My workplace migrated the last customer off SMDS maybe about 2 or 3 years ago, but most of them were moved several years before that. My understanding is Vz could no longer buy gear to support SMDS and pretty much had to cannibalize existing equipment to keep it running. At one point when we still had 40-some customers on one SMDS DS3 hub circuit, we had an outage that spanned 3 days (fortunately into a weekend). Vz seemed to have only a few techs who were clueful on smds and, unless we were working with one of them, very often our techs would have to instruct Vz what to do (typically reloading all the addresses would restore service, IIRC).
Where I used to work, we had lots of dial POPs on SMDS, for good reasons at the time. When we re-did our dial architecture around 2000-2001 to move away from physical POPs, we got rid of the SMDS service. From what I remember, the month-to-month pricing after the contract ended was pretty ugly, so that was another incentive to dump it. jms
Not only token ring. I know of some coaxial ethernets that were running as late as 2007. Some ATM machines still use X.25. And I know of at least one operational CNLP network (not a commercial one though) cheers! Carlos On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Greg Whynott <Greg.Whynott@oicr.on.ca>wrote:
off topic…
you recently converted from token ring to ethernet? i had no idea there was still token ring networks out there, or am i living in a bubble?
-g
On Oct 31, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Paul WALL wrote:
I don't know what the big deal is. I've rolled at least 20 of these switches into my network, and not only are they more stable than the Centillion switches that they replaced, they only cost half as much. Most of the money I dropped was on converting my stations from token ring to ethernet.
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:59 PM, bas <kilobit@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Kevin Oberman <oberman@es.net> wrote:
I might also mention that I received private SPAM from a name we all know and loath. (Hint: He's been banned from NANOG for VERY good reason and his name is of French derivation.) I just added a filter to block any mail mentioning pica8 and will see no more of this thread or their spam.
Same here. He harvests email addresses from peeringdb. (I have slight typo's in my peeringdb record to recognize harvested spams.)
Bas
--
This message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Opinions, conclusions or other information contained in this message may not be that of the organization.
-- -- ========================= Carlos M. Martinez-Cagnazzo http://cagnazzo.name =========================
lets just say that its easier to have a linux box bridge/route between ethernet and token ring than it is to get ethernet nics for your as/400's and other old stuff.
you recently converted from token ring to ethernet? i had no idea there was still token ring networks out there, or am i living in a bubble?
-g
On Oct 31, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Paul WALL wrote:
I don't know what the big deal is. I've rolled at least 20 of these switches into my network, and not only are they more stable than the Centillion switches that they replaced, they only cost half as much. Most of the money I dropped was on converting my stations from token ring to ethernet.
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:59 PM, bas <kilobit@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Kevin Oberman <oberman@es.net> wrote:
I might also mention that I received private SPAM from a name we all know and loath. (Hint: He's been banned from NANOG for VERY good reason and his name is of French derivation.) I just added a filter to block any mail mentioning pica8 and will see no more of this thread or their spam.
Same here. He harvests email addresses from peeringdb. (I have slight typo's in my peeringdb record to recognize harvested spams.)
Bas
--
This message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Opinions, conclusions or other information contained in this message may not be that of the organization.
-- -- ========================= Carlos M. Martinez-Cagnazzo http://cagnazzo.name =========================
To my knowledge Simplex Grinnell fire detection systems currently use token ring. The information in this email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of this message or attachment is strictly prohibited. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the email and all of its attachments From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo [mailto:carlosm3011@gmail.com] Sent: Tue 11/2/2010 3:44 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Token ring? topic hijack: was Re: Mystery open source switching Not only token ring. I know of some coaxial ethernets that were running as late as 2007. Some ATM machines still use X.25. And I know of at least one operational CNLP network (not a commercial one though) cheers! Carlos On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Greg Whynott <Greg.Whynott@oicr.on.ca>wrote:
off topic...
you recently converted from token ring to ethernet? i had no idea there was still token ring networks out there, or am i living in a bubble?
-g
On Oct 31, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Paul WALL wrote:
I don't know what the big deal is. I've rolled at least 20 of these switches into my network, and not only are they more stable than the Centillion switches that they replaced, they only cost half as much. Most of the money I dropped was on converting my stations from token ring to ethernet.
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:59 PM, bas <kilobit@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Kevin Oberman <oberman@es.net> wrote:
I might also mention that I received private SPAM from a name we all know and loath. (Hint: He's been banned from NANOG for VERY good reason and his name is of French derivation.) I just added a filter to block any mail mentioning pica8 and will see no more of this thread or their spam.
Same here. He harvests email addresses from peeringdb. (I have slight typo's in my peeringdb record to recognize harvested spams.)
Bas
--
This message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Opinions, conclusions or other information contained in this message may not be that of the organization.
-- -- ========================= Carlos M. Martinez-Cagnazzo http://cagnazzo.name =========================
On Nov 3, 2010, at 10:08 AM, "Adcock, Matt [HISNA]" <MAdcock@hisna.com> wrote:
To my knowledge Simplex Grinnell fire detection systems currently use token ring.
I can't believe I got through is thread (unless the iPhone threading is more broken than usual) without anyone mentioning the fibre channel over token ring alliance (http://fcotr.org)
On Mon, 2010-11-01 at 11:21 -0400, Greg Whynott wrote:
you recently converted from token ring to ethernet? i had no idea there was still token ring networks out there, or am i living in a bubble?
Look in your car... If you have a recent vehicle (especially one with integrated nav, multimedia radio and comms), it is likely that the system interconnect is handled over Media Oriented System Transport (MOST) which is a variation on traditional token-ring. -- /*=================[ Jake Khuon <khuon@NEEBU.Net> ]=================+ | Packet Plumber, Network Engineers /| / [~ [~ |) | | -------- | | for Effective Bandwidth Utilisation / |/ [_ [_ |) |_| NETWORKS | +==================================================================*/
Marketing by annoyance, smoke, and mirrors? Gotta love the strategy
But as was demonstrated by the link they posted earlier today, they make a good filter for determining "news" organizations that operate on the theory of "news by press release." Think of them as a honeypot feed :-P --lyndon
Once upon a time, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> said:
Hello,
For your information :
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/102810-pica8-opensource-switching.html...
your spam is getting annoying
<aol>Me too</aol> I've received direct spam as well about this crap as well, presumably from list address harvesting from NANOG or other similar list. The way to sell stuff to net admins is not to spam them; I have a special mail folder that I store all such vendor spam to make sure I never accidentally buy from them in the future. -- Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
Put down the crackpipe. Your product isn't that great the b& should be dropped on u shortly Ps welcome to the ahbl tard Tammy Tammy A Wisdom Summit Open Source Development Group -----Original Message----- From: Lin Pica8 <pica8.org@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:42:36 To: <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Mystery open source switching company claims top-of-rack price edge (was Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch) Hello, For your information : http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/102810-pica8-opensource-switching.html... Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com 2010/10/19 Lin Pica8 <pica8.org@gmail.com>:
Hello,
To have a better overview of a Cloud (or OpenFlow) Switch, I would greatly appreciate to invite you to a further reading of the presentation entitled "FI technologies on cloud computing and trusty networking" from our partner, Chunghwa Telecom (Leading ISP in Taiwan) :
http://www.asiafi.net/meeting/2010/summerschool/p/chu.pdf
Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com
2010/10/18 Lin Pica8 <pica8.org@gmail.com>:
Hello,
We are starting to distribute Pica8 Open Source Cloud Switches :
Especially, a Pica8 Switch with the following specifications (including Open Source Firmware) :
-HW : 48x1Gbps + 4x10 Gbps
-Firmware : L2/L3 management for VLAN, LACP, STP/RSTP, LLDP, OSPF, RIP, static route, PIM-SM, VRRP, IGMP, IGMP Snooping, IPv6, Radius/Tacacs+ as well as OpenFlow 1.0
would compete with a Cisco Catalyst 2960-S, Model WS-C2960S-48TD-L for half the price (~2k USD).
Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com
plonk NANOGers are only followers. We are 1 second ahead of you. Mail : pica8.org@ 2010/10/30 Tammy A Wisdom <tammy-lists@wiztech.biz>:
Put down the crackpipe. Your product isn't that great the b& should be dropped on u shortly Ps welcome to the ahbl tard Tammy
Tammy A Wisdom Summit Open Source Development Group
-----Original Message----- From: Lin Pica8 <pica8.org@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:42:36 To: <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Mystery open source switching company claims top-of-rack price edge (was Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch)
Hello,
For your information :
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/102810-pica8-opensource-switching.html...
Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com
2010/10/19 Lin Pica8 <pica8.org@gmail.com>:
Hello,
To have a better overview of a Cloud (or OpenFlow) Switch, I would greatly appreciate to invite you to a further reading of the presentation entitled "FI technologies on cloud computing and trusty networking" from our partner, Chunghwa Telecom (Leading ISP in Taiwan) :
http://www.asiafi.net/meeting/2010/summerschool/p/chu.pdf
Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com
2010/10/18 Lin Pica8 <pica8.org@gmail.com>:
Hello,
We are starting to distribute Pica8 Open Source Cloud Switches :
Especially, a Pica8 Switch with the following specifications (including Open Source Firmware) :
-HW : 48x1Gbps + 4x10 Gbps
-Firmware : L2/L3 management for VLAN, LACP, STP/RSTP, LLDP, OSPF, RIP, static route, PIM-SM, VRRP, IGMP, IGMP Snooping, IPv6, Radius/Tacacs+ as well as OpenFlow 1.0
would compete with a Cisco Catalyst 2960-S, Model WS-C2960S-48TD-L for half the price (~2k USD).
Mail : pica8.org@gmail.com
participants (33)
-
Adcock, Matt [HISNA] -
Atticus -
bas -
Brielle Bruns -
Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo -
Chris Adams -
Chris Boyd -
Christopher Morrow -
Curtis Maurand -
Gary Baribault -
gordon b slater -
Greg Whynott -
Jake Khuon -
Jason LeBlanc -
Jay Farrell -
Jeff Kell -
Joel Jaeggli -
John Payne -
Julio Arruda -
Justin M. Streiner -
Kevin Oberman -
Lin Pica8 -
Lynda -
Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX) -
Mike Tancsa -
Nick Hilliard -
Patrick W. Gilmore -
Paul WALL -
Randy -
Randy Bush -
Richard Graves (RHT) -
Sven Olaf Kamphuis -
Tammy A Wisdom