Routing Policy and http://rs.arin.net/ip-allocation.html
For the first time we have had to deal with Sprint's routing policy as defined by http://www.sprint.net/filter.htm. Here is the situation. One of our dialup customers wants to access his website in the 206.116.31.0/24 network at another provider. PSI is advertising it as a /24. According to Sprint's routing policy, they do not honour anything longer than a /19 in 206.0.0.0/8 . I am now in the position trying to explain to the very non-technical customer, why he cant reach that site, which from his point of view just seems like I am passing the buck... Anyways, my question is, are their any other ISPs/NSPs that follow the same guidelines. UUNet seems to honor it just fine, as does MCI. Is Sprint more hardnosed than most ? ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) *
For the first time we have had to deal with Sprint's routing policy as defined by http://www.sprint.net/filter.htm. Here is the situation.
One of our dialup customers wants to access his website in the 206.116.31.0/24 network at another provider. PSI is advertising it as a /24. According to Sprint's routing policy, they do not honour anything longer than a /19 in 206.0.0.0/8 .
It's interesting that PSI routes it at all. While IP ownership (note the NON-PORTABLE below) and routing aren't necessarily interconnected, I suggest contacting the block's owner and seeing if they know it's alternately routed. If they wish, they can request that PSI un-route this block. However, that would break whomever is using it. The user should re-number into PSI space, and this issue will go away. If the user is multi-homed, they should investigate the adivisibility of getting a CIDR block which they can announce as an aggregate. My $0.02 ___ iSTAR Internet Inc. (NETBLK-ISTAR0005) 250 Albert Street, Suite 202 Ottawa, Ontario K1P 6M1 Canada Netname: ISTAR0005 Netblock: 206.116.0.0 - 206.116.255.0 Maintainer: ISTR Coordinator: iSTAR Registration (ISTARREG-ARIN) registration@ISTAR.CA 613-780-2200 Alternate Contact: iSTAR Internet Inc. (ISTARDS-ARIN) direct-assist@istar.ca tel (613) 780-2200 fax (613) 780-6666 Domain System inverse mapping provided by: NS1.OTTAWA.ISTAR.NET 198.53.64.7 NS2.OTTAWA.ISTAR.NET 198.53.64.14 ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE Record last updated on 23-May-96. Database last updated on 5-May-98 16:09:35 EDT.
I am now in the position trying to explain to the very non-technical customer, why he cant reach that site, which from his point of view just seems like I am passing the buck...
Anyways, my question is, are their any other ISPs/NSPs that follow the same guidelines. UUNet seems to honor it just fine, as does MCI. Is Sprint more hardnosed than most ?
---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) *
-- _/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Stephen E. Schmidt _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ Vice President, Access _/ _/ _/ _/ American Information Systems, Inc. _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ E-mail: steve@ais.net, http://www.ais.net For my PGP public key, email me with the subject "pgp request" ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
On Wed, May 06, 1998 at 11:51:38AM -0500, Stephen Schmidt <steve@eagle.ais.net> wrote:
For the first time we have had to deal with Sprint's routing policy as defined by http://www.sprint.net/filter.htm. Here is the situation.
One of our dialup customers wants to access his website in the 206.116.31.0/24 network at another provider. PSI is advertising it as a /24. According to Sprint's routing policy, they do not honour anything longer than a /19 in 206.0.0.0/8 .
It's interesting that PSI routes it at all. While IP ownership (note the NON-PORTABLE below) and routing aren't necessarily interconnected, I suggest contacting the block's owner and seeing if they know it's alternately routed. If they wish, they can request that PSI un-route this block. However, that would break whomever is using it. The user should re-number into PSI space, and this issue will go away. If the user is multi-homed, they should investigate the adivisibility of getting a CIDR block which they can announce as an aggregate.
My $0.02 ___ iSTAR Internet Inc. (NETBLK-ISTAR0005) 250 Albert Street, Suite 202 Ottawa, Ontario K1P 6M1 Canada [snip]
PSI bought iSTAR earlier this year, so it's not really surprising that they're routing these networks. Bryan -- bryanf@samurai.com Home "You know, sometimes I just want to bryanf@canoe.ca Work be a chicken." - Master FehHead bryanf@icomm.ca http://www.icomm.ca http://www.feh.net
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Anyways to address the actual question: I haven't dealt with anyone other than Sprint filtering space longer than /19 in the 206.0.0.0/8 but in the past I had issues with both UUnet and Agis filtering errant /24's and /23's out of 204.0.0.0/8. I've been very clearly telling all my customers that while I will route their IP space for them, as long as its allocated to them - I will not be responsible for anything that we know Sprint may or may not filter on any given day. It generally works well, they take space from me and we resubmit their space to whomever the governing body is/was at the time. For customers that really have a need we push as hard as we can to get them their own /19 so they'll not have to renumber but we know the issues involved with this. jlw On Wed, 6 May 1998, Bryan Fullerton wrote:
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:26:12 -0400 From: Bryan Fullerton <bryanf@samurai.com> To: Stephen Schmidt <steve@eagle.ais.net>, Mike Tancsa <mike@sentex.net> Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Routing Policy and http://rs.arin.net/ip-allocation.html
On Wed, May 06, 1998 at 11:51:38AM -0500, Stephen Schmidt <steve@eagle.ais.net> wrote:
For the first time we have had to deal with Sprint's routing policy as defined by http://www.sprint.net/filter.htm. Here is the situation.
One of our dialup customers wants to access his website in the 206.116.31.0/24 network at another provider. PSI is advertising it as a /24. According to Sprint's routing policy, they do not honour anything longer than a /19 in 206.0.0.0/8 .
It's interesting that PSI routes it at all. While IP ownership (note the NON-PORTABLE below) and routing aren't necessarily interconnected, I suggest contacting the block's owner and seeing if they know it's alternately routed. If they wish, they can request that PSI un-route this block. However, that would break whomever is using it. The user should re-number into PSI space, and this issue will go away. If the user is multi-homed, they should investigate the adivisibility of getting a CIDR block which they can announce as an aggregate.
My $0.02 ___ iSTAR Internet Inc. (NETBLK-ISTAR0005) 250 Albert Street, Suite 202 Ottawa, Ontario K1P 6M1 Canada [snip]
PSI bought iSTAR earlier this year, so it's not really surprising that they're routing these networks.
Bryan
-- bryanf@samurai.com Home "You know, sometimes I just want to bryanf@canoe.ca Work be a chicken." - Master FehHead bryanf@icomm.ca http://www.icomm.ca http://www.feh.net
-- Jason Weisberger Chief Technology Officer SoftAware, Inc. - 310/305-0275 "Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees." -Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
For the first time we have had to deal with Sprint's routing policy as defined by http://www.sprint.net/filter.htm. Here is the situation.
One of our dialup customers wants to access his website in the 206.116.31.0/24 network at another provider. PSI is advertising it as a /24. According to Sprint's routing policy, they do not honour anything longer than a /19 in 206.0.0.0/8 .
It's interesting that PSI routes it at all. While IP ownership (note the
Note: PSI bought iSTAR and the iSTAR network is almost finished being integrated into PSI. So PSI should in fact be announcing that whole /16. -Phil
[snip] One of our dialup customers wants to access his website in the 206.116.31.0/24 network at another provider. [snip] Anyways, my question is, are their any other ISPs/NSPs that follow the same guidelines. UUNet seems to honor it just fine, as does MCI. Is Sprint more hardnosed than most ?
That is the wrong question to ask. The real question is who has been handing out 206.116/16 like they were dealing cards? A quick look at the announcments and in whois.arin.net reveals a bunch of /24 spread out over Canada. Historically, and currently, the Canadians crowd the top of the Tony Bates cidr list. Why is that? -mark P.S. I see iSTAR has 206.116/16.... why don't they announce it?
On Wed, 6 May 1998, Mark Kent wrote:
That is the wrong question to ask. The real question is who has been handing out 206.116/16 like they were dealing cards? A quick look at the announcments and in whois.arin.net reveals a bunch of /24 spread out over Canada.
This is because historically, addresses in Canada were handed out without regard to CIDR even after everyone else was doing CIDR allocations. A couple of years ago the Canadian IP registry was shut down and allocations since that time have followed CIDR guidelines more closely. If you want to see an excellent example of the kind of things that used to happen, have a look at "whois -h whois.arin.net 199.166.227". In 1994 I applied for a CIDR block of two Class C's, i.e. a /23 and this is what I got. Look closely now... If you still can't see the problem try writing both /24's in binary one above the other.
Historically, and currently, the Canadians crowd the top of the Tony Bates cidr list. Why is that?
Part of it is because of the above allocation problem but another large part of the problem is a severe lack of clue. Not enough Canadians go to NANOG meetings to learn how to run a network properly, especially at the Canadian backbone providers. Even when there were 10 provincial backbones within the CA*NET consortium, the knowledge transfer just did not take place. In some provinces like Ontario the network operators seemed more interested in socialist politics than in running a network properly. Things are a bit better now in some regions and in some companies but there is still a lot more knowledge sharing that could be done. And if anyone wants to flame me for this, please don't inflict it on the NANOG list. Instead, come see me in person this weekend at the 12th annual Canadian Internet conference http://www.net98.bc.ca and tell me what a twit I am. I'll even buy you a beer. -- Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com
The owner of the block should be announcing the /16 It should not be chopped up into a whole slew of /24's. It's not sprints fault. I would contact iSTAR. If their customers are multihomed out of that space, and (ex:) came to us, we would accept and announce that space, but not everyone would accept it (such as sprint, and others). If the person in that /24 is not connected to iSTAR, they should have given the address space back already. More folks should probally be filtering this: border1.aa#sh ip b 206.116.0.0 255.255.0.0 longer-prefixes BGP table version is 1776141, local router ID is 131.103.0.35 Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i - internal Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete Network Next Hop Metric LocPrf Weight Path *>i206.116.1.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i *>i206.116.2.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i *>i206.116.3.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i *>i206.116.4.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.12.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i *>i206.116.14.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.20.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 174 8013 i *>i206.116.21.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.31.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 174 8013 i *>i206.116.32.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.36.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.37.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.41.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.42.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.47.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.48.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.51.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.55.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.56.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i * i206.116.58.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.61.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.63.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i *>i206.116.64.0 131.103.0.1 2 80 0 3561 701 3493 i *>i206.116.69.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.70.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i *>i206.116.71.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.73.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i *>i206.116.75.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i * i206.116.80.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.81.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.85.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.86.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.87.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.88.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.92.0 131.103.0.1 2 80 0 3561 577 3804 7271 i * i206.116.94.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.96.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.97.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i * i206.116.99.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.104.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.110.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.111.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.113.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.114.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.117.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.118.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.121.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.122.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.124.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.125.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.126.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.127.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.150.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.151.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.152.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.157.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.160.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.173.0 131.103.0.1 12 80 0 3561 2493 2493 i * i206.116.177.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.191.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.195.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.199.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.203.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.210.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 7788 ? *>i206.116.211.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.217.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.228.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.232.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.234.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.241.0 131.103.0.1 2 80 0 3561 701 816 i *>i206.116.242.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.245.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? * i206.116.248.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.250.0 131.103.0.1 2 80 0 3561 701 3493 i * i206.116.252.0 131.103.0.1 25 80 0 3561 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? *>i206.116.254.0 131.103.0.2 10 80 0 1239 6453 2493 2493 ? - jared On Tue, May 05, 1998 at 11:04:40PM -0400, Mike Tancsa wrote:
For the first time we have had to deal with Sprint's routing policy as defined by http://www.sprint.net/filter.htm. Here is the situation.
One of our dialup customers wants to access his website in the 206.116.31.0/24 network at another provider. PSI is advertising it as a /24. According to Sprint's routing policy, they do not honour anything longer than a /19 in 206.0.0.0/8 .
I am now in the position trying to explain to the very non-technical customer, why he cant reach that site, which from his point of view just seems like I am passing the buck...
Anyways, my question is, are their any other ISPs/NSPs that follow the same guidelines. UUNet seems to honor it just fine, as does MCI. Is Sprint more hardnosed than most ?
---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) *
-- Work: jared@qual.net - We Make The Internet Work for Your Business 9-5pm(ET) 800 637 4424x2634 - 24x7 NOC - 800 424 3223 pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net
participants (9)
-
Bryan Fullerton -
Christopher Knight -
Jared Mauch -
Jason L. Weisberger -
Mark Kent -
Michael Dillon -
Mike Tancsa -
Phillip Vandry -
Stephen Schmidt