Is there such a thing as a 10GBase-T SFP+ transciever
I would like to know if anyone has seen one of these? If so where? Also if they don't exist why? It would seem to me that it would make it a lot easier to play mix and match with fiber in the DC if they did. Would be so hard to make the 1G SFPs faster (trying to be funny here not arrogant). -James
On 1/30/14, 5:26 PM, james jones wrote:
I would like to know if anyone has seen one of these? If so where? Also if they don't exist why? It would seem to me that it would make it a lot easier to play mix and match with fiber in the DC if they did. Would be so hard to make the 1G SFPs faster (trying to be funny here not arrogant).
the current chipsets don't fit in the the power/cooling budget of a spf+ transceiver envelope
-James
You may wish to consider twinax for short distance 10G over copper with SFP+ at both ends http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinaxial_cabling#SFP.2B_Direct-Attach_Copper_.... Typically marketed as "direct-attach" (you can't remove the cables from the transceivers, it's all integrated) On 31/01/14 12:26, james jones wrote:
I would like to know if anyone has seen one of these? If so where? Also if they don't exist why? It would seem to me that it would make it a lot easier to play mix and match with fiber in the DC if they did. Would be so hard to make the 1G SFPs faster (trying to be funny here not arrogant).
-James
What I want to see is reasonably priced 40G single mode transceivers. I have no idea why 40G and now 100G wasn't rolled out with single mode as the preference. The argument that "there's a large multimode install base" doesn't hold water. For one thing, you're using enormous amounts of MM fiber to get at best 1/4 of the ports than you previously had. The best case is that you could get 12 ports where you used to have 48, but that's messy. The second issue is cost, if you're running and distance, you've got to go to OM4, because MM fiber has very limited range at 10G (you're multiplexing 10G links), and OM4 is insanely expensive. Single Mode on the other hand is 'cheap' in comparison. One pair of SM fiber will handle every speed from 10M to 100G, and over much longer distances than MM, no matter what grade. Unfortunately, since the manufacturers haven't seen fit to push the SM, the optics are extremely expensive, so we're stuck with 4-12 times the amount of installed fiber than we really need. Grumble. On Jan 30, 2014, at 6:25 PM, Chris Balmain <chris@team.dcsi.net.au> wrote:
You may wish to consider twinax for short distance 10G over copper with SFP+ at both ends
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinaxial_cabling#SFP.2B_Direct-Attach_Copper_....
Typically marketed as "direct-attach" (you can't remove the cables from the transceivers, it's all integrated)
On 31/01/14 12:26, james jones wrote:
I would like to know if anyone has seen one of these? If so where? Also if they don't exist why? It would seem to me that it would make it a lot easier to play mix and match with fiber in the DC if they did. Would be so hard to make the 1G SFPs faster (trying to be funny here not arrogant).
-James
That was the reason for the push to the 10x10 MSA by people like Google and other providers who did not want to use MM bundles and didn't want to deal with the expense and power consumption of 100GBase-LR4. LR10 although hasn't really seen much adoption by the vendors, only compatible optics from 3rd party vendors are available now. 40GBase-LR4 QSFP+ aren't really all that expensive these days. Gray market they are less than $2500. Cisco and Arista also just came out with 40G running over a single duplex MM fiber, 100M over OM3, and I expect the other datacenter vendors to follow suit shortly. As for 10GBase-T in a transceiver, I haven't seen that on anyone's roadmap. It will probably come eventually but not for awhile. -Phil On 1/31/14, 7:39 AM, "Eric Clark" <cabenth@gmail.com> wrote:
What I want to see is reasonably priced 40G single mode transceivers.
I have no idea why 40G and now 100G wasn't rolled out with single mode as the preference. The argument that "there's a large multimode install base" doesn't hold water.
For one thing, you're using enormous amounts of MM fiber to get at best 1/4 of the ports than you previously had. The best case is that you could get 12 ports where you used to have 48, but that's messy. The second issue is cost, if you're running and distance, you've got to go to OM4, because MM fiber has very limited range at 10G (you're multiplexing 10G links), and OM4 is insanely expensive.
Single Mode on the other hand is 'cheap' in comparison. One pair of SM fiber will handle every speed from 10M to 100G, and over much longer distances than MM, no matter what grade.
Unfortunately, since the manufacturers haven't seen fit to push the SM, the optics are extremely expensive, so we're stuck with 4-12 times the amount of installed fiber than we really need.
Grumble.
On Jan 30, 2014, at 6:25 PM, Chris Balmain <chris@team.dcsi.net.au> wrote:
You may wish to consider twinax for short distance 10G over copper with SFP+ at both ends
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinaxial_cabling#SFP.2B_Direct-Attach_Coppe r_.2810GSFP.2BCu.29
Typically marketed as "direct-attach" (you can't remove the cables from the transceivers, it's all integrated)
On 31/01/14 12:26, james jones wrote:
I would like to know if anyone has seen one of these? If so where? Also if they don't exist why? It would seem to me that it would make it a lot easier to play mix and match with fiber in the DC if they did. Would be so hard to make the 1G SFPs faster (trying to be funny here not arrogant).
-James
On Feb 1, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Phil Bedard <bedard.phil@gmail.com> wrote:
As for 10GBase-T in a transceiver, I haven't seen that on anyone's roadmap. It will probably come eventually but not for awhile.
It must exist, as there is this: http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunderb... - Jared
Pluggable SFP+ transceiver. There are plenty of fixed config 10GBase-T devices out there. Power/space in a SFP+ package just isn't there yet. Phil On 2/1/14, 4:18 PM, "Jared Mauch" <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
On Feb 1, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Phil Bedard <bedard.phil@gmail.com> wrote:
As for 10GBase-T in a transceiver, I haven't seen that on anyone's roadmap. It will probably come eventually but not for awhile.
It must exist, as there is this:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunde rbolt-to-10-gbits-ethernet-desklink-device
- Jared
IIRC, it takes about 13W to maintain a 10GBASET connection. That's a lot of power to drain from a tiny board that wasn't designed to supply such loads. ~tom On Saturday, February 1, 2014 1:32:58 PM, Phil Bedard <bedard.phil@gmail.com> wrote: Pluggable SFP+ transceiver. There are plenty of fixed config 10GBase-T devices out there. Power/space in a SFP+ package just isn't there yet. Phil On 2/1/14, 4:18 PM, "Jared Mauch" <jared <jared@puck.nether.net>@<jared@puck.nether.net> puck.nether.net <jared@puck.nether.net>> wrote:
On Feb 1, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Phil Bedard <bedard.phil<bedard.phil@gmail.com>
@ <bedard.phil@gmail.com>gmail.com <bedard.phil@gmail.com>> wrote:
As for 10GBase-T in a transceiver, I haven't seen that on anyone's roadmap. It will probably come eventually but not for awhile.
It must exist, as there is this:
http://<http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunde>
store.apple.com<http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunde> /us/product/HC294LL/A/<http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunde> atto<http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunde> -<http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunde> thunderlink<http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunde> -nt1102-<http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunde> thunde<http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunde>
rbolt-to-10-gbits-ethernet-desklink-device
- Jared
On Sun, Feb 02, 2014 at 04:21:20AM +0000, Thomas Maufer wrote:
IIRC, it takes about 13W to maintain a 10GBASET connection. That's a lot of power to drain from a tiny board that wasn't designed to supply such loads.
~tom
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 1:32:58 PM, Phil Bedard <bedard.phil@gmail.com> wrote:
Pluggable SFP+ transceiver. There are plenty of fixed config 10GBase-T devices out there. Power/space in a SFP+ package just isn't there yet.
Phil
Tom, I believe the newer 10GBase-T standard is between 1.5 and 4W per port depending on the cable length, much better (colder!) than it was. You will also get slightly increased latency with 10GBase-T vs SFP+ -- Bryan G. Seitz
On 2/1/14, 1:18 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
On Feb 1, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Phil Bedard <bedard.phil@gmail.com> wrote:
As for 10GBase-T in a transceiver, I haven't seen that on anyone's roadmap. It will probably come eventually but not for awhile.
It must exist, as there is this:
Nah that's a 10G-base-t pci express nic in a box. which is fine and dandy for what it does but the phy doesn't fit in the power envelope or footprint of an sfp+ transciever.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/HC294LL/A/atto-thunderlink-nt1102-thunderb...
- Jared
+1. Cisco calls them Twinax, HP calls them DACs. I don't know what anyone else calls them as it hasn't come up in conversation for me. Cisco appears to offer them in 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, and 5 meter passive, as well as 7 and 10 meter active. HP has them in 1, 3, 7, 10, and 15 meter; no idea what the passive/active breakdown might be (they don't appear to offer that information as freely). I've mostly used the 3-meter HP DACs so far, and I've been rather happy with them, particularly the cost savings under 2x 10gbit SFP+ fiber transceivers. Jima On 2014-01-30 19:25, Chris Balmain wrote:
You may wish to consider twinax for short distance 10G over copper with SFP+ at both ends
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinaxial_cabling#SFP.2B_Direct-Attach_Copper_....
Typically marketed as "direct-attach" (you can't remove the cables from the transceivers, it's all integrated)
On 31/01/14 12:26, james jones wrote:
I would like to know if anyone has seen one of these? If so where? Also if they don't exist why? It would seem to me that it would make it a lot easier to play mix and match with fiber in the DC if they did. Would be so hard to make the 1G SFPs faster (trying to be funny here not arrogant).
-James
participants (9)
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Bryan Seitz -
Chris Balmain -
Eric Clark -
james jones -
Jared Mauch -
Jima -
joel jaeggli -
Phil Bedard -
Thomas Maufer