Try: http://www.broadcast.com/mcisp for a list of ISP that carry Yahoo Broadcast content via IP Multicast. I would hope that this is equivalent to full native IP Multicast connectivity for the majority of these ISPs. (Note: This message should not be construed as an endorsement of any particular content provider/aggregator or ISP ;-)) --- Toerless
Toerless Eckert wrote:
Try:
http://www.broadcast.com/mcisp
for a list of ISP that carry Yahoo Broadcast content via IP Multicast. I would hope that this is equivalent to full native IP Multicast connectivity for the majority of these ISPs.
(Note: This message should not be construed as an endorsement of any particular content provider/aggregator or ISP ;-))
--- Toerless
Hi Toerless; This list has 66 entries (I know some have tunnels from Y/B.C for better connectivity), and my ASN list http://www.multicasttech.com/papers/multicast_list.pdf has 321. Some of the ones, like CAIS, say they do multicast, but must not multicast peer, as they do not show up in MBGP. -- Regards Marshall Eubanks T.M. Eubanks Multicast Technologies, Inc 10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410 Fairfax, Virginia 22030 Phone : 703-293-9624 Fax : 703-293-9609 e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com tme@multicasttech.com http://www.on-the-i.com http://www.buzzwaves.com
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
Toerless Eckert wrote:
Try:
http://www.broadcast.com/mcisp
for a list of ISP that carry Yahoo Broadcast content via IP Multicast. I would hope that this is equivalent to full native IP Multicast connectivity for the majority of these ISPs.
(Note: This message should not be construed as an endorsement of any particular content provider/aggregator or ISP ;-))
--- Toerless
Hi Toerless;
This list has 66 entries (I know some have tunnels from Y/B.C for better connectivity), and my ASN list
Excellent list! But you are missing some which pop up from my msdp tables. Based on: mcast#sho ip msdp count SA State per ASN Counters, <asn>: <# sources>/<# groups> Total entries: 2044 14: 7/7, 17: 7/6, 25: 8/3, 26: 1/1 32: 10/5, 38: 4/4, 70: 2/1, 73: 6/2 81: 4/4, 87: 8/3, 103: 2/2, 111: 5/4 131: 4/4, 137: 11/5, 145: 4/4, 159: 14/11 194: 6/2, 210: 11/6, 224: 235/31, 225: 2/2 237: 11/11, 557: 4/3, 559: 5/5, 680: 95/30 683: 34/7, 704: 2/2, 766: 7/4, 777: 5/2 786: 205/39, 818: 12/11, 855: 6/4, 1103: 18/16 1224: 13/7, 1249: 1/1, 1257: 1/1, 1307: 49/18 1312: 37/26, 1653: 117/26, 1720: 7/7, 1741: 85/53 1938: 19/13, 1942: 11/3, 2107: 12/5, 2200: 6/5 2407: 1/1, 2457: 8/6, 2496: 3/2, 2603: 9/1 2607: 1/1, 2611: 72/40, 2831: 339/84, 2841: 4/3 2843: 50/11, 2846: 47/7, 2852: 7/7, 2900: 91/3 3112: 5/4, 3323: 3/3, 3582: 85/78, 3676: 5/2 3701: 1/1, 3756: 12/11, 3999: 1/1, 4201: 5/4 4557: 6/6, 5050: 1/1, 5466: 3/3, 5640: 6/5 5661: 1/1, 6200: 4/3, 6263: 8/6, 6356: 1/1 6366: 20/1, 6867: 5/5, 7050: 10/6, 7539: 23/7 8617: 10/10, 8933: 1/1, 8973: 3/2, 9112: 50/50 9270: 7/4, 10437: 4/3, 10490: 3/3, 11317: 1/1 11808: 1/1, 12707: 1/1, 14048: 2/2, 14183: 1/1 16517: 10/10 You are missing ASN: 87, 777, 818, 2457, 2607, 3756, 11808. Regards, Hank
has 321. Some of the ones, like CAIS, say they do multicast, but must not multicast peer, as they do not show up in MBGP.
-- Regards Marshall Eubanks
T.M. Eubanks Multicast Technologies, Inc 10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410 Fairfax, Virginia 22030 Phone : 703-293-9624 Fax : 703-293-9609 e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com tme@multicasttech.com
Hank Nussbacher wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
Toerless Eckert wrote:
Try:
http://www.broadcast.com/mcisp
for a list of ISP that carry Yahoo Broadcast content via IP Multicast. I would hope that this is equivalent to full native IP Multicast connectivity for the majority of these ISPs.
(Note: This message should not be construed as an endorsement of any particular content provider/aggregator or ISP ;-))
--- Toerless
Hi Toerless;
This list has 66 entries (I know some have tunnels from Y/B.C for better connectivity), and my ASN list
Excellent list! But you are missing some which pop up from my msdp tables. Based on:
mcast#sho ip msdp count SA State per ASN Counters, <asn>: <# sources>/<# groups> Total entries: 2044
You are missing ASN: 87, 777, 818, 2457, 2607, 3756, 11808.
These all post-date my list (except maybe as 2607) - looks like I need to update my list. Marshall
Regards, Hank
has 321. Some of the ones, like CAIS, say they do multicast, but must not multicast peer, as they do not show up in MBGP.
-- Regards Marshall Eubanks
T.M. Eubanks Multicast Technologies, Inc 10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410 Fairfax, Virginia 22030 Phone : 703-293-9624 Fax : 703-293-9609 e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com tme@multicasttech.com
On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 03:09:09PM -0500, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
mcast#sho ip msdp count SA State per ASN Counters, <asn>: <# sources>/<# groups> Total entries: 2044
You are missing ASN: 87, 777, 818, 2457, 2607, 3756, 11808.
These all post-date my list (except maybe as 2607) - looks like I need to update my list.
The other thing is a lot of people have mbgp+msdp but don't have a source/receiver right now (AS8011 for example) but have connectivity to multicast internet. I'm curious what barriers are keeping multicast from being deployed at the edges. Does your upstream not support multicast connectivity, or is it an education issue in getting connected? Should someone do a presentation @ NANOG on how to configure multicast in the pim-sm,msdp,mbgp days? Also, with ssm there is almost no configuration that will be required other than turning on pim (and mbgp.. no msdp is needed). - Jared -- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I'm curious what barriers are keeping multicast from being deployed at the edges. Does your upstream not support multicast connectivity, or is it an education issue in getting connected?
In my case... lack of understand/education. I have been reading as much as I can about multicasting, but I have yet to find a simple FAQ/HOW-TO guide on enabling my internal network for multicast. I have a mixture of Nortel and Cisco routers and switches. All the manuals TALK about multicast, but I haven't found a simple setup guide. I figure, there is no point in multicast enabling my edge/internet router if the rest of my network isn't multicast aware... Any thoughts? I just joined the multicast mailing list mentioned here earlier to hopefully learn more about the subject... === Tim ********************************************** Tim Winders, MCSE, CNE, CCNA Associate Dean of Information Technology South Plains College Levelland, TX 79336 Phone: 806-894-9611 x 2369 FAX: 806-894-1549 Email: TWinders@SPC.cc.tx.us ********************************************** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (OSF1) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.75-6 iEYEARECAAYFAjrA+qoACgkQTPuHnIooYbwzIgCeLFlBaOuqQOtqnkDszAyU6Y0v BzIAoL2f8sM1gxppcRSwRlfLA+Oup0nV =jiez -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I agree that the education and understanding are hard to find. It's not entirely intuitive, esp to troubleshoot (in my opinion). However, there are a number of decent resources around. The Abilene (Internet2) network's NOC webpage has a list of useful resources and a "multicast cookbook" intended to show how to configure and verify your edge router with native multicast (for Cisco IOS; sorry, others). perhaps that'll help. Brent Sweeny, Indiana University On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 02:40:06PM -0600, Tim Winders wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I'm curious what barriers are keeping multicast from being deployed at the edges. Does your upstream not support multicast connectivity, or is it an education issue in getting connected?
In my case... lack of understand/education. I have been reading as much as I can about multicasting, but I have yet to find a simple FAQ/HOW-TO guide on enabling my internal network for multicast. I have a mixture of Nortel and Cisco routers and switches. All the manuals TALK about multicast, but I haven't found a simple setup guide.
I figure, there is no point in multicast enabling my edge/internet router if the rest of my network isn't multicast aware...
Any thoughts? I just joined the multicast mailing list mentioned here earlier to hopefully learn more about the subject...
=== Tim
********************************************** Tim Winders, MCSE, CNE, CCNA Associate Dean of Information Technology South Plains College Levelland, TX 79336
Phone: 806-894-9611 x 2369 FAX: 806-894-1549 Email: TWinders@SPC.cc.tx.us **********************************************
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thanks, Brent. I checked out the Internet2 website (http://www.internet2.org) but couldn't find the NOC webpage with the "multicast cookbook" that you mention. Do you have a URL? I search and found A LOT of references, but nothing quite like you described. Thanks. === Tim ********************************************** Tim Winders, MCSE, CNE, CCNA Associate Dean of Information Technology South Plains College Levelland, TX 79336 Phone: 806-894-9611 x 2369 FAX: 806-894-1549 Email: TWinders@SPC.cc.tx.us ********************************************** On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Brent Sweeny wrote:
I agree that the education and understanding are hard to find. It's not entirely intuitive, esp to troubleshoot (in my opinion). However, there are a number of decent resources around. The Abilene (Internet2) network's NOC webpage has a list of useful resources and a "multicast cookbook" intended to show how to configure and verify your edge router with native multicast (for Cisco IOS; sorry, others). perhaps that'll help. Brent Sweeny, Indiana University
On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 02:40:06PM -0600, Tim Winders wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I'm curious what barriers are keeping multicast from being deployed at the edges. Does your upstream not support multicast connectivity, or is it an education issue in getting connected?
In my case... lack of understand/education. I have been reading as much as I can about multicasting, but I have yet to find a simple FAQ/HOW-TO guide on enabling my internal network for multicast. I have a mixture of Nortel and Cisco routers and switches. All the manuals TALK about multicast, but I haven't found a simple setup guide.
I figure, there is no point in multicast enabling my edge/internet router if the rest of my network isn't multicast aware...
Any thoughts? I just joined the multicast mailing list mentioned here earlier to hopefully learn more about the subject...
=== Tim
********************************************** Tim Winders, MCSE, CNE, CCNA Associate Dean of Information Technology South Plains College Levelland, TX 79336
Phone: 806-894-9611 x 2369 FAX: 806-894-1549 Email: TWinders@SPC.cc.tx.us **********************************************
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (OSF1) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.75-6 iEYEARECAAYFAjrBH+IACgkQTPuHnIooYbzfFwCeJfz+htITK3jf31/gWBmU30oo jbUAoM3TtYsBvw7nHq5m5Tkx+KlYCLVB =CuiU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 05:18:55PM -0600, Tim Winders wrote:
Thanks, Brent. I checked out the Internet2 website (http://www.internet2.org) but couldn't find the NOC webpage with the "multicast cookbook" that you mention. Do you have a URL? I search and found A LOT of references, but nothing quite like you described.
Thanks.
=== Tim
duh. I forget to give the URL, sorry. http://www.abilene.iu.edu/index.cgi?page=multicast
********************************************** Tim Winders, MCSE, CNE, CCNA Associate Dean of Information Technology South Plains College Levelland, TX 79336
Phone: 806-894-9611 x 2369 FAX: 806-894-1549 Email: TWinders@SPC.cc.tx.us **********************************************
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Brent Sweeny wrote:
I agree that the education and understanding are hard to find. It's not entirely intuitive, esp to troubleshoot (in my opinion). However, there are a number of decent resources around. The Abilene (Internet2) network's NOC webpage has a list of useful resources and a "multicast cookbook" intended to show how to configure and verify your edge router with native multicast (for Cisco IOS; sorry, others). perhaps that'll help. Brent Sweeny, Indiana University
No amount of education can change the simple fact that the transport level multicasting is a broken concept. I do not want to reiterate all the years-old arguments, it suffices to say that since then no magic bullet was found allowing multicating to be safe to the routing infrastructure, or scalable enough for use by the mass of regular end-users. Some bad ideas just won't die. --vadim
On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 02:40:06PM -0600, Tim Winders wrote:
I'm curious what barriers are keeping multicast from being deployed at the edges. Does your upstream not support multicast connectivity, or is it an education issue in getting connected?
In my case... lack of understand/education.
Radia Perlman, Interconnections, Second Edition Addison-Wesley Pub Co; ISBN: 0201634481 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201634481/o/qid=985732748/sr=2-1/102... Its a great book overall, and has a great treatment of multicast routing. matto On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Tim Winders wrote: In my case... lack of understand/education. I have been reading as much as I can about multicasting, but I have yet to find a simple FAQ/HOW-TO guide on enabling my internal network for multicast. I have a mixture of Nortel and Cisco routers and switches. All the manuals TALK about multicast, but I haven't found a simple setup guide. I figure, there is no point in multicast enabling my edge/internet router if the rest of my network isn't multicast aware... Any thoughts? I just joined the multicast mailing list mentioned here earlier to hopefully learn more about the subject... === Tim --mghali@snark.net------------------------------------------<darwin>< Flowers on the razor wire/I know you're here/We are few/And far between/I was thinking about her skin/Love is a many splintered thing/Don't be afraid now/Just walk on in. #include <disclaim.h>
Jared Mauch wrote:
On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 03:09:09PM -0500, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
mcast#sho ip msdp count SA State per ASN Counters, <asn>: <# sources>/<# groups> Total entries: 2044
You are missing ASN: 87, 777, 818, 2457, 2607, 3756, 11808.
These all post-date my list (except maybe as 2607) - looks like I need to update my list.
The other thing is a lot of people have mbgp+msdp but don't have a source/receiver right now (AS8011 for example) but have connectivity to multicast internet.
I'm curious what barriers are keeping multicast from being deployed at the edges. Does your upstream not support multicast connectivity, or is it an education issue in getting connected?
Should someone do a presentation @ NANOG on how to configure multicast in the pim-sm,msdp,mbgp days? Also, with ssm there is almost no configuration that will be required other than turning on pim (and mbgp.. no msdp is needed).
- Jared
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
Dear Jared; I could do this at NANOG 22 if there was any interest. I presented on SSM last time. I honestly think that the main barrier is inertia, plus a lack of strong customer demand (as in, people calling up and saying "why can't I get multicast ?"). I think a little demand would go a long way towards overcoming the inertia. Regards Marshall Eubanks T.M. Eubanks Multicast Technologies, Inc 10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410 Fairfax, Virginia 22030 Phone : 703-293-9624 Fax : 703-293-9609 e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com tme@multicasttech.com http://www.on-the-i.com http://www.buzzwaves.com
At 03:23 PM 03/27/2001 -0500, Jared Mauch wrote:
I'm curious what barriers are keeping multicast from being deployed at the edges. Does your upstream not support multicast connectivity, or is it an education issue in getting connected?
Changing the NLRI on a neighbor causes a BGP session to reset. If you use peer-groups this amplifies the problem. On a large network, scheduling maintenance windows to change the NLRI can take quite a long time. This is just one of the issues, Education is another large issue. -Steve
I'm curious what barriers are keeping multicast from being deployed at the edges. Does your upstream not support multicast connectivity, or is it an education issue in getting connected?
Well, if we go out to the consumer edge, you'll find several providers deploy technologies that have bad scaling properties with multicast. If I've understood correctly, many DSL providers do the provider end of DSL as ATM, and with no "multicast smarts" at the point where the DSL circuits actually fan out (DSLAM?). This creates duplicate traffic on the "pure ATM stretch". If the DSL provider overbooks his ATM capacity (which is apparently fairly common) compared to the number of DSL circuits he terminates, well..., it's not helping. I'm sure there are other examples of more or less actively multicast-unfriendly network technologies in this market segment. Of course, having tunnels run willy-nilly over your unicast infra- structure isn't exactly ideal either. Regards, - Håvard
participants (10)
-
Brent Sweeny -
Hank Nussbacher -
Havard Eidnes -
Jared Mauch -
just me. -
Marshall Eubanks -
Steve Meuse -
Tim Winders -
Toerless Eckert -
Vadim Antonov