I thought I'd put a smile on your faces for Friday. This is how networking happens in Hawaii... https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/04/thousands-of-hawaiians-could-lose-phone-an... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "State regulators have opened an emergency investigation of Sandwich Isles Communications..." "The investigation comes as Sandwich Isles is apparently blocking access to its telecom infrastructure to another provider, Hawaiian Telcom, alleging trespass, filing police reports and putting customer phone and internet service at risk." "Sandwich Isles Communications is an Oahu-based telephone company founded in 1995 with a mission to provide communication services to Native Hawaiians living on homesteads" "In 2015, founder Albert Hee was convicted of criminal tax fraud...Hee was sentenced in 2016 to 46 months in prison." "With federal backing, the company built the Paniolo Network, a web of undersea and terrestrial fiber optic cables." "...a bankruptcy trustee ordered the sale of the Paniolo Network to Hawaiian Telcom." "Hawaiian Telcom says Sandwich Isles has removed, destroyed or tampered with Hawaiian Telcom locks on perimeter fences surrounding buildings purchased by Hawaiian Telcom. And that Sandwich Isles has installed its own locks and devices on buildings and premises owned by Hawaiian Telcom, as well as welding shut access gates. The company also says Sandwich Isles has made multiple false police reports alleging Hawaiian Telcom is trespassing on its property." "Al Hee was requesting that Hawaiian Telcom’s lock on its Paniolo Building at Laiopua on the Big Island be replaced. Otherwise, Hee said he would call the police." "In a Sept. 11 letter to customers, Sandwich Isles blamed the situation on Hawaiian Telcom." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- When your brother is very connected politically I guess one feels invincible... "...welding shut access gates..." hahaha! Insanity! There're other 'outages' that didn't make the article. Repeated fiber damaged off shore, etc. scott
This reads a lot like dsl wars between ilecs and clecs in the late 90s and early 2ks. Great times? Or Greatest times? On Fri, Apr 29, 2022, 15:44 scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
I thought I'd put a smile on your faces for Friday. This is how networking happens in Hawaii...
https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/04/thousands-of-hawaiians-could-lose-phone-an...
---------------------------------------------------------------------- "State regulators have opened an emergency investigation of Sandwich Isles Communications..."
"The investigation comes as Sandwich Isles is apparently blocking access to its telecom infrastructure to another provider, Hawaiian Telcom, alleging trespass, filing police reports and putting customer phone and internet service at risk."
"Sandwich Isles Communications is an Oahu-based telephone company founded in 1995 with a mission to provide communication services to Native Hawaiians living on homesteads"
"In 2015, founder Albert Hee was convicted of criminal tax fraud...Hee was sentenced in 2016 to 46 months in prison."
"With federal backing, the company built the Paniolo Network, a web of undersea and terrestrial fiber optic cables."
"...a bankruptcy trustee ordered the sale of the Paniolo Network to Hawaiian Telcom."
"Hawaiian Telcom says Sandwich Isles has removed, destroyed or tampered with Hawaiian Telcom locks on perimeter fences surrounding buildings purchased by Hawaiian Telcom. And that Sandwich Isles has installed its own locks and devices on buildings and premises owned by Hawaiian Telcom, as well as welding shut access gates. The company also says Sandwich Isles has made multiple false police reports alleging Hawaiian Telcom is trespassing on its property."
"Al Hee was requesting that Hawaiian Telcom’s lock on its Paniolo Building at Laiopua on the Big Island be replaced. Otherwise, Hee said he would call the police."
"In a Sept. 11 letter to customers, Sandwich Isles blamed the situation on Hawaiian Telcom." ----------------------------------------------------------------------
When your brother is very connected politically I guess one feels invincible...
"...welding shut access gates..." hahaha! Insanity!
There're other 'outages' that didn't make the article. Repeated fiber damaged off shore, etc.
scott
On 4/30/2022 12:19 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
This reads a lot like dsl wars between ilecs and clecs in the late 90s and early 2ks.
compounded by a 100+ year old military occupation
Hee is definitely acting in an old school (meaning 60s/70s) Hawaii manner... ;) Also, for the others here...on the occupation. I haven't read this particular article, but I'm sure it covers the basics. The main question is 'was it a nation when the US gov't overthrew Hawaii or was it a group of individual kingdoms?' Many get that wrong and that's what matters to international courts on the current issue of Hawaiian sovereignty. For sure, it was a nation due to a forced treaty agreement with Kaumuali`i. The rest of the individual island kingdoms were conquered with violence by Kamehameha who then created a lahui..a nation. Therefore, it is a military occupation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_the_Hawaiian_Kingdom scott well, that does it for the history lesson. ;-)
See official apology of the United State to Hawaii https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-107/pdf/STATUTE-107-Pg1510.pdf which includes these words: "apologizes to Native Hawaiians on behalf of the people of the United States for the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii on January 17, 1893 with the participation of agents and citizens of the United States, and the deprivation of the rights of Native Hawaiians to self-determination;" Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 7:09 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
On 4/30/2022 12:19 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
This reads a lot like dsl wars between ilecs and clecs in the late 90s and early 2ks.
compounded by a 100+ year old military occupation
Hee is definitely acting in an old school (meaning 60s/70s) Hawaii manner... ;)
Also, for the others here...on the occupation. I haven't read this particular article, but I'm sure it covers the basics. The main question is 'was it a nation when the US gov't overthrew Hawaii or was it a group of individual kingdoms?' Many get that wrong and that's what matters to international courts on the current issue of Hawaiian sovereignty. For sure, it was a nation due to a forced treaty agreement with Kaumuali`i. The rest of the individual island kingdoms were conquered with violence by Kamehameha who then created a lahui..a nation. Therefore, it is a military occupation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_the_Hawaiian_Kingdom
scott
well, that does it for the history lesson. ;-)
See official apology of the United State to Hawaii https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-107/pdf/STATUTE-107-Pg1510.pdf which includes these words: "apologizes to Native Hawaiians on behalf of the people of the United States for the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii on January 17, 1893 with the participation of agents and citizens of the United States, and the deprivation of the rights of Native Hawaiians to self-determination;"
that and 15 cents will get you on the subway
On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 4:09 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
On 4/30/2022 12:19 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
This reads a lot like dsl wars between ilecs and clecs in the late 90s and early 2ks.
compounded by a 100+ year old military occupation The main question is 'was it a nation when the US gov't overthrew Hawaii or was it a group of individual kingdoms?' Many get that wrong and that's what matters to international courts on the current issue of Hawaiian sovereignty. For sure, it was a nation due to a forced treaty agreement with Kaumuali`i. The rest of the individual island kingdoms were conquered with violence by Kamehameha who then created a lahui..a nation. Therefore, it is a military occupation.
Strictly speaking, the U.S. government didn't overthrow Hawaii. U.S. expats acting on their own (with some funny business that looked like bribery of U.S. military in the area) overthrew Kamehameha's descendant. The U.S. President at the time denounced it (especially the part about suborning the military) but half a decade later the U.S. government agreed to admit the already-conquered territory rather than leave it to be picked off by someone else. Countries whose law derives from English Common law have a concept of adverse possession. Details vary but mainly if you can hold the land for 20 years against the owner's wishes then it's your land. Conceptually it applies to nations just as surely as individuals. This is wise - it allows folks now alive to avoid an endless descent into the murderous history of land changing hands. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
On 4/30/2022 1:31 PM, William Herrin wrote:
Strictly speaking, the U.S. government didn't overthrow Hawaii. U.S. expats acting on their own (with some funny business that looked like bribery of U.S. military in the area) overthrew Kamehameha's descendant.
That would be the Committee of Safety formed of very, very rich people expressly to overthrow the Hawaiian Kingdom: "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_of_Safety_(Hawaii)" (Their families are still extraordinarily rich to this day)
The U.S. President at the time denounced it (especially the part about suborning the military) but half a decade later the U.S. government agreed to admit the already-conquered territory rather than leave it to be picked off by someone else.
The president at the time of the overthrow attempt saw the lies the Committee of Safety was saying about the lives of Americans being in danger and said no to the overthrow. Extraordinarily rich mainland Americans (steel/rail guys, I think) bought the next president and he was the one that authorized the overthrow. There's a lot more to the story, including US government military marching up Richards St in downtown Honolulu to `Iolani palace and arresting queen Lili`uokalani under gun point.
Countries whose law derives from English Common law have a concept of adverse possession. Details vary but mainly if you can hold the land for 20 years against the owner's wishes then it's your land. Conceptually it applies to nations just as surely as individuals.
Hawaiians did not have this concept. It was forced on them militarily. scott (use your filtering tool to ignore this... :)) This
is wise - it allows folks now alive to avoid an endless descent into the murderous history of land changing hands.
Regards, Bill Herrin
William Herrin wrote:
Countries whose law derives from English Common law have a concept of adverse possession. Details vary but mainly if you can hold the land for 20 years against the owner's wishes then it's your land. Conceptually it applies to nations just as surely as individuals.
Such interpretation of English Common law is against Zionism promoted by British government and should be wrong. Masataka Ohta
participants (6)
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Christopher Morrow -
Donald Eastlake -
Masataka Ohta -
Randy Bush -
scott -
William Herrin