Re: Utah governor signs Net-porn bill
--- William Allen Simpson <wsimpson@greendragon.com> wrote:
So, Utah law _already_ means no links to Planned Parenthood et alia.
Planned Parenthood is quite alive and well in Utah. Contraceptives are freely advertised on TV and given out on campus at the U of U. All of the other stuff you're seeing is either: 1) unenforcable old blue laws similar to how Native Americans need to be escorted by police in Massachussetts (i.e. they never got around to fixing old bad law, but noone cares anymore) 2) political posturing by elected officials (also relatively common in other parts of the world. c.f. US Congress, both parties) 3) Something which, while it COULD be extended to mean something ridiculous, will NOT be. For crying out loud - this is UTAH, not the moon: the people there are just like people everywhere. Yeah, they tend to be a bit more socially conservative than the libertarian-leaning NANOG membership is used to, but it's not like they've got 2 heads and three arms - if you prick them, they'll bleed... so while I agree that this is a goofy law which was poorly written - there IS a demand for this type of service, and we'll see how it plays out. -David Barak need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise! http://www.listentothefranchise.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
so while I agree that this is a goofy law which was poorly written - there IS a demand for this type of service, and we'll see how it plays out.
Right! Not everyone needs or wants plain old raw Internet access. That is a commodity service which appealed to the early adopters who were technically literate. But in order to make the Internet into a true universal utility which is connected everywhere, all of the time, we need to develop some value-added services in addition to the plain-jane commodity access. So far most product innovation has come about by applying different types of technology to the last mile access and to the network core. Or by subtracting from the standard bundle of services offered by ISPs in 1995. Now it is time for people to look at adding to the plain-jane access service. One way to do this is by supplying managed (or partially managed) boxes to subscribers in their premises. SIP-based telephony services are an example of this. Most SIP-phones are partially managed boxes that call home when they are reset to download some config info. Most ISPs offer managed access or VPN services where the CPE router and/or firewall is managed by the ISP. Shifting the managed service into the ISP premises rather than the customer premises is not a big deal from the technology point of view and enables an ISP to provide more solid guarantees of security to the customer. This is especially appealing to home users since the home environment is generally less secure than a corporate environment where IT rooms and telecom closets are locked and access-controlled. The Internet services business has gotten rather too conservative lately. Where is the innovation gone? Why are so many people in the business satisfied to rest on their laurels and point to their accomplishments back in the 90's? I would have thought, that tough economic times would spur people to greater innovation not less. --Michael Dillon
1) unenforcable old blue laws similar to how Native Americans need to be escorted by police in Massachussetts (i.e. they never got around to fixing old bad law, but noone cares anymore)
Actually, Indian towns were goverened by Blue Laws up the second half of the 20th century. Not every law against snowfall was enforced at all times, but one shouldn't infer that all laws relating to fallend snow were moot for all time.
David Barak wrote:
Planned Parenthood is quite alive and well in Utah. Contraceptives are freely advertised on TV and given out on campus at the U of U. All of the other stuff you're seeing is either:
1) unenforcable old blue laws similar to ...
Don't know about Utah, but do know about Michigan: 1998 Aug 15 -- 24-year-old computer programmer hit a rock with his canoe. Began cussing. Charged with a 19th century law banning profanity within earshot of women and children. Convicted by jury. Took 4 years to overturn on appeal. Tens of thousands of dollars. Is only 1 of many such cases across the country that the ACLU has fought. So, I wouldn't bank on "unenforceable"....
2) political posturing by elected officials (also relatively common in other parts of the world. c.f. US Congress, both parties)
I've previously written here about RECENT Michigan laws on sex between unmarried persons, called "lascivious" conduct here (as opposed to "fornication" in Utah). And just like RECENT Utah, Michigan has RECENTLY enacted clearly unconstitutional laws on abortion, in the hopes that some future Supreme Court will reverse Roe v Wade, at which time all those invalid laws will become operative.
3) Something which, while it COULD be extended to mean something ridiculous, will NOT be.
Great! If you truly believe this, just volunteer to be the test case. All you have to do is host a computer site, and refuse to label the content. Heck, AFAICT, a FTP-only site would be a good case. Or simply refuse to offer the blocking service. I'm assuming that you really operate an ISP in Utah. And that you are willing to spend some time in jail at various times, have $10,000 or so for bail, and a few $100,000 for attorney fees -- none of which you'll get back even should you win. I've spent time in jail on principle. I'm glad to see others are still willing to stand up and be counted! For the rest of you, wouldn't it just be cheaper and more cost effective to send some money to CDT? -- William Allen Simpson Key fingerprint = 17 40 5E 67 15 6F 31 26 DD 0D B9 9B 6A 15 2C 32
David Barak wrote: <snip>
For crying out loud - this is UTAH, not the moon: the people there are just like people everywhere. Yeah, they tend to be a bit more socially conservative than the libertarian-leaning NANOG membership is used to, but it's not like they've got 2 heads and three arms - if you prick them, they'll bleed...
From their hands, and feet, like in Stigmata ? Remind me not to visit Utah, on Easter. :} FWIW, they are doing articles right now, on how the evangelicals, thanks to "Faith Based Initiative" are using the money funneled into them, and their new close associations, to influence policy in US Government. So much for the "Wall of Separation". :\ Prepare for a lot more of it to come down the road. The Schiavo case is a great example. From a legal standpoint, they have -nothing- to stand on... 20 judges have said so. The parents gave up, and signed the "right of attorney" over to the husband, years ago. End of _legal_ story. But, this administration, and a mob of RRR, don't really care about the law, as much as appearances, and grandstanding. So, the _exact_same_man_ who signed into law the Governments right to pop the plug on the poor, _irrespective_ of the wishes of the caregiver, -or- family, is leading the mob with pitchforks against just such an action. Go Figure. Like I said, "The Moral Majority were Neither".
so while I agree that this is a goofy law which was poorly written - there IS a demand for this type of service, and we'll see how it plays out.
If there is a demand for the service, someone will be _more_ than happy to sell it to them, however, you -don't- need a law, just the demand. Just think, anyone who tries to offer this service, if he were to have an error, or a mistake, will face criminal charges, as well as the potential Civil Lawsuit, similar to Vonage. Double Jeopardy for trying to do "the right thing". And something else to remember about those "Blue Laws", they are usually old and antiquated.. not, passed in the last 6 months. Who would have thought the "Dark Ages" would have a revival, post 2000 ?
-David Barak need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise! http://www.listentothefranchise.com
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 05:48:00AM -0800, David Barak wrote:
if you prick them, they'll bleed...
What color? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates The Things I Think '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 If you can read this... thank a system adminstrator. Or two. --me
participants (6)
-
David Barak -
Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine -
Jay R. Ashworth -
Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com -
Richard Irving -
William Allen Simpson