XBOX 720: possible digital download mass service.
This seems the right mail list to ask this. Consoles have a lifespan of 5 years. The current generation is 6 years old. There are rumours that production of the GPU's for the new generation has started in asia. So the new consoles can come in 2013. Theres also a rumour that these new consoles will require internet to download games. These games can weigth 9 to 20 GB. That may be 30 million users in USA, maybe 50 worldwide. The question is: Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?. If not, will be internet USA ready for the next next generation? ( 2018 ). -- -- ℱin del ℳensaje.
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
not a problem. the vast majority of the states is like a developing country [0], the last mile is pretty much a tin can and a string. so this will effectively throttle the load. randy [0] - no insult to the dev cons intended
Just curious to know at what bandwidth big ISP's like AT&T, Verizon, Level3, Cogent etc are operating? Are all at or above 40Gbps core bandwidth? On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
not a problem. the vast majority of the states is like a developing country [0], the last mile is pretty much a tin can and a string. so this will effectively throttle the load.
randy
[0] - no insult to the dev cons intended
-- Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com or simply - http://[2001:470:26:78f::5] if you are on IPv6 connected network! Twitter: @anurag_bhatia <https://twitter.com/#!/anurag_bhatia> Linkedin: http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.com
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Anurag Bhatia wrote:
Just curious to know at what bandwidth big ISP's like AT&T, Verizon, Level3, Cogent etc are operating? Are all at or above 40Gbps core bandwidth?
Probably a mix of 10G, 40G and 100G as appropriate. By 2014, that might tilt more heavily toward 40G and 100G. From what I've seen, most peering connections at public IXPs are one or more 10G links. Private peering connections could certainly be higher, if the providers at both ends feel it makes good business sense. jms
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
not a problem. the vast majority of the states is like a developing country [0], the last mile is pretty much a tin can and a string. so this will effectively throttle the load.
randy
[0] - no insult to the dev cons intended
--
Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com or simply - http://[2001:470:26:78f::5] if you are on IPv6 connected network!
Twitter: @anurag_bhatia <https://twitter.com/#!/anurag_bhatia> Linkedin: http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.com
Well, those are the numbers we can see from a single transceiver (right now mostly 10G and some 40G right now, and 100G on its way); but most of the big players are using multiples of these with DWDM and link aggregation. I'd say the actual numbers are closer to 680G average right now, per path. On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Justin M. Streiner < streiner@cluebyfour.org> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Anurag Bhatia wrote:
Just curious to know at what bandwidth big ISP's like AT&T, Verizon,
Level3, Cogent etc are operating? Are all at or above 40Gbps core bandwidth?
Probably a mix of 10G, 40G and 100G as appropriate. By 2014, that might tilt more heavily toward 40G and 100G. From what I've seen, most peering connections at public IXPs are one or more 10G links. Private peering connections could certainly be higher, if the providers at both ends feel it makes good business sense.
jms
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014
and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
not a problem. the vast majority of the states is like a developing country [0], the last mile is pretty much a tin can and a string. so this will effectively throttle the load.
randy
[0] - no insult to the dev cons intended
--
Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com or simply - http://[2001:470:26:78f::5] if you are on IPv6 connected network!
Twitter: @anurag_bhatia <https://twitter.com/#!/**anurag_bhatia<https://twitter.com/#!/anurag_bhatia>
Linkedin: http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.**com<http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.com>
-- Ray Soucy Epic Communications Specialist Phone: +1 (207) 561-3526 Networkmaine, a Unit of the University of Maine System http://www.networkmaine.net/
Hello Ray You are refering to dark fiber capacity or is that lit capacity and already in use? On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Ray Soucy <rps@maine.edu> wrote:
Well, those are the numbers we can see from a single transceiver (right now mostly 10G and some 40G right now, and 100G on its way); but most of the big players are using multiples of these with DWDM and link aggregation. I'd say the actual numbers are closer to 680G average right now, per path.
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Justin M. Streiner < streiner@cluebyfour.org> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Anurag Bhatia wrote:
Just curious to know at what bandwidth big ISP's like AT&T, Verizon,
Level3, Cogent etc are operating? Are all at or above 40Gbps core bandwidth?
Probably a mix of 10G, 40G and 100G as appropriate. By 2014, that might tilt more heavily toward 40G and 100G. From what I've seen, most peering connections at public IXPs are one or more 10G links. Private peering connections could certainly be higher, if the providers at both ends feel it makes good business sense.
jms
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014
and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
not a problem. the vast majority of the states is like a developing country [0], the last mile is pretty much a tin can and a string. so this will effectively throttle the load.
randy
[0] - no insult to the dev cons intended
--
Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com or simply - http://[2001:470:26:78f::5] if you are on IPv6 connected network!
Twitter: @anurag_bhatia <https://twitter.com/#!/**anurag_bhatia<;
https://twitter.com/#!/anurag_bhatia>
Linkedin: http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.**com<; http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.com>
-- Ray Soucy
Epic Communications Specialist
Phone: +1 (207) 561-3526
Networkmaine, a Unit of the University of Maine System http://www.networkmaine.net/
-- Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com or simply - http://[2001:470:26:78f::5] if you are on IPv6 connected network! Twitter: @anurag_bhatia <https://twitter.com/#!/anurag_bhatia> Linkedin: http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.com
Cogent, for example, openly advertises 680G lit capacity for its intercity links; I have not idea if that's just marketing or not. Perhaps some people on list who work for these providers can provide some data. On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Anurag Bhatia <me@anuragbhatia.com> wrote:
Hello Ray
You are refering to dark fiber capacity or is that lit capacity and already in use?
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Ray Soucy <rps@maine.edu> wrote:
Well, those are the numbers we can see from a single transceiver (right now mostly 10G and some 40G right now, and 100G on its way); but most of the big players are using multiples of these with DWDM and link aggregation. I'd say the actual numbers are closer to 680G average right now, per path.
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Justin M. Streiner < streiner@cluebyfour.org> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Anurag Bhatia wrote:
Just curious to know at what bandwidth big ISP's like AT&T, Verizon,
Level3, Cogent etc are operating? Are all at or above 40Gbps core bandwidth?
Probably a mix of 10G, 40G and 100G as appropriate. By 2014, that might tilt more heavily toward 40G and 100G. From what I've seen, most peering connections at public IXPs are one or more 10G links. Private peering connections could certainly be higher, if the providers at both ends feel it makes good business sense.
jms
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014
and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
not a problem. the vast majority of the states is like a developing country [0], the last mile is pretty much a tin can and a string. so this will effectively throttle the load.
randy
[0] - no insult to the dev cons intended
--
Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com or simply - http://[2001:470:26:78f::5] if you are on IPv6 connected network!
Twitter: @anurag_bhatia <https://twitter.com/#!/**anurag_bhatia<;
https://twitter.com/#!/anurag_bhatia>
Linkedin: http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.**com<; http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.com>
-- Ray Soucy
Epic Communications Specialist
Phone: +1 (207) 561-3526
Networkmaine, a Unit of the University of Maine System http://www.networkmaine.net/
--
Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com or simply - http://[2001:470:26:78f::5] if you are on IPv6 connected network!
Twitter: @anurag_bhatia <https://twitter.com/#!/anurag_bhatia> Linkedin: http://linkedin.anuragbhatia.com
-- Ray Soucy Epic Communications Specialist Phone: +1 (207) 561-3526 Networkmaine, a Unit of the University of Maine System http://www.networkmaine.net/
On Friday, January 27, 2012 05:56:19 AM Randy Bush wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
not a problem. the vast majority of the states is like a developing country [0], the last mile is pretty much a tin can and a string. so this will effectively throttle the load.
Being in 'the middle of nowhere' as I write, even we are a few notches above RFC1149 capabilities. As one visitor to our site (who had been recently to NRAO Greenbank) said 'if this isn't the middle of nowhere, you can probably see it from here.' Our base DSL is 7Mb/s down, 0.5Mb/s up, with 11Mb/s down and 1Mb/s up available to over 99% of our very rural county. We (work) have 1Gb/s on the local loop fiber pair, throttled to the amount of IP we actually pay for at the ISP's PoP. Now if RFC1149 supported jumbo frames, it might give tin-cans-and-string a run for its money....
On (2012-01-27 11:35 +0100), Tei wrote:
Theres also a rumour that these new consoles will require internet to download games. These games can weigth 9 to 20 GB. That may be 30 million users in USA, maybe 50 worldwide.
Source to these rumours? It seems ridiculous thought, considering you can literally find PS2 today in Siberia in a tent behind generator in a middle of nowhere, with seemingly legally acquired titles. Without having any data to back this up, I'm going to claim significant portion of revenue is generated by late adopters in emerging markets. -- ++ytti
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:35:49 +0100, Tei said:
Theres also a rumour that these new consoles will require internet to download games.
Apply some logic here - is it in the vendor's best interests to *require* internet to download games? As somebody else pointed out, there's an awful lot of current-gen consoles in tents in Mongolia and farmhouses in Montana - do you want to make a product that those people can't buy and use *at all*? There's also a large segment of the gaming community that will, in fact, be rather upset if you take away the ritual of camping out in front of GameStop.
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
I'll go out on a limb and say that neither Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo are stupid enough to release the sort of console your rumors predict until after the guys at NetFlix have made it safe for them to do so. :)
This is already very normal (tens of millions of people doing this). World of Warcraft, RIFT, and Star Wars: The Old Republic, etc. are all around 20G of downloads. Sure they have boxed versions, but after you install them they need another 10G of patches to download (looking at you, Blizzard). The majority of players buy the digital download (instant gratification). Some companies, like Blizzard, have even created streaming game clients that prioritizes what is downloaded to get people playing right away. On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 7:46 AM, <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:35:49 +0100, Tei said:
Theres also a rumour that these new consoles will require internet to download games.
Apply some logic here - is it in the vendor's best interests to *require* internet to download games? As somebody else pointed out, there's an awful lot of current-gen consoles in tents in Mongolia and farmhouses in Montana - do you want to make a product that those people can't buy and use *at all*?
There's also a large segment of the gaming community that will, in fact, be rather upset if you take away the ritual of camping out in front of GameStop.
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
I'll go out on a limb and say that neither Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo are stupid enough to release the sort of console your rumors predict until after the guys at NetFlix have made it safe for them to do so. :)
-- Ray Soucy Epic Communications Specialist Phone: +1 (207) 561-3526 Networkmaine, a Unit of the University of Maine System http://www.networkmaine.net/
On 1/27/12 7:52 AM, Ray Soucy wrote:
This is already very normal (tens of millions of people doing this).
World of Warcraft, RIFT, and Star Wars: The Old Republic, etc. are all around 20G of downloads. Sure they have boxed versions, but after you install them they need another 10G of patches to download (looking at you, Blizzard).
The majority of players buy the digital download (instant gratification).
Well, I can tell you from my experience using AT&T at home that there is no such thing as instant gratification with digital downloads of large games. ;) If I start something in the morning it will probably be done by the time I get back from the office. Even if I buy a box set these days it's more likely just a serial number carrier than not, which is a waste of time for side trip to a store through rush hour traffic on the way home. ~Seth
It's already done on a similar scale when apple releases new software for their mobile devices. Just don't do it if you are on a low cap plan (eg: mobile, satellite etc). Caps will be the new market discriminator IMHO. Jared Mauch On Jan 27, 2012, at 3:35 AM, Tei <oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
Here's your baseline: Sony Vita. They already tossed the UMD out with the PSP-GO and that failed miserably. Now they are trying again to go to digital only with the Vita. It's not the scale of PS3 or XBOX360 but it may be a good way to gauge the potential success of the concept. -Hammer- "I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer On 1/27/2012 7:34 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
It's already done on a similar scale when apple releases new software for their mobile devices.
Just don't do it if you are on a low cap plan (eg: mobile, satellite etc). Caps will be the new market discriminator IMHO.
Jared Mauch
On Jan 27, 2012, at 3:35 AM, Tei<oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
It's already done on a similar scale when apple releases new software for
The PS Vita still uses a proprietary memory card format, so it's not just download only. The best example of download only would be OnLive, which basically is a game system that only delivers on demand games. IMHO, it's the market that will determine whether this is the right choice in the long run. It's a creative way to eliminate the used market and stop piracy, but if the consumers don't join up like the PSP Go, it will eventually fail. Sincerely, Eric Tykwinski TrueNet, Inc. P: 610-429-8300 F: 610-429-3222 -----Original Message----- From: -Hammer- [mailto:bhmccie@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:02 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: XBOX 720: possible digital download mass service. Here's your baseline: Sony Vita. They already tossed the UMD out with the PSP-GO and that failed miserably. Now they are trying again to go to digital only with the Vita. It's not the scale of PS3 or XBOX360 but it may be a good way to gauge the potential success of the concept. -Hammer- "I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer On 1/27/2012 7:34 AM, Jared Mauch wrote: their mobile devices.
Just don't do it if you are on a low cap plan (eg: mobile, satellite etc).
Caps will be the new market discriminator IMHO.
Jared Mauch
On Jan 27, 2012, at 3:35 AM, Tei<oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
Now we are venturing OT but I thought the format was proprietary but you still had to get the content on the memory via the glorious Internet? Are you saying I can go to Gamestop and buy a stick with whatever game I'm looking for? Is that the plan? -Hammer- "I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer On 1/27/2012 8:13 AM, Eric Tykwinski wrote:
The PS Vita still uses a proprietary memory card format, so it's not just download only. The best example of download only would be OnLive, which basically is a game system that only delivers on demand games.
IMHO, it's the market that will determine whether this is the right choice in the long run. It's a creative way to eliminate the used market and stop piracy, but if the consumers don't join up like the PSP Go, it will eventually fail.
Sincerely,
Eric Tykwinski TrueNet, Inc. P: 610-429-8300 F: 610-429-3222
-----Original Message----- From: -Hammer- [mailto:bhmccie@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:02 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: XBOX 720: possible digital download mass service.
Here's your baseline: Sony Vita. They already tossed the UMD out with the PSP-GO and that failed miserably. Now they are trying again to go to digital only with the Vita. It's not the scale of PS3 or XBOX360 but it may be a good way to gauge the potential success of the concept.
-Hammer-
"I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer
It's already done on a similar scale when apple releases new software for
On 1/27/2012 7:34 AM, Jared Mauch wrote: their mobile devices.
Just don't do it if you are on a low cap plan (eg: mobile, satellite etc). Caps will be the new market discriminator IMHO. Jared Mauch
On Jan 27, 2012, at 3:35 AM, Tei<oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
That's the case, but yeah, definitely off-topic... http://www.gamestop.com/ps-vita/games/uncharted-golden-abyss-ps-vita/91436 Which would be on-topic, though. If anyone knows of an OnLive box just to check out the bandwidth usage, I would be interested. Sincerely, Eric Tykwinski TrueNet, Inc. P: 610-429-8300 F: 610-429-3222 -----Original Message----- From: -Hammer- [mailto:bhmccie@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:21 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: XBOX 720: possible digital download mass service. Now we are venturing OT but I thought the format was proprietary but you still had to get the content on the memory via the glorious Internet? Are you saying I can go to Gamestop and buy a stick with whatever game I'm looking for? Is that the plan? -Hammer- "I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer On 1/27/2012 8:13 AM, Eric Tykwinski wrote:
The PS Vita still uses a proprietary memory card format, so it's not just download only. The best example of download only would be OnLive, which basically is a game system that only delivers on demand games.
IMHO, it's the market that will determine whether this is the right choice in the long run. It's a creative way to eliminate the used market and stop piracy, but if the consumers don't join up like the PSP Go, it will eventually fail.
Sincerely,
Eric Tykwinski TrueNet, Inc. P: 610-429-8300 F: 610-429-3222
-----Original Message----- From: -Hammer- [mailto:bhmccie@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:02 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: XBOX 720: possible digital download mass service.
Here's your baseline: Sony Vita. They already tossed the UMD out with the PSP-GO and that failed miserably. Now they are trying again to go to digital only with the Vita. It's not the scale of PS3 or XBOX360 but it may be a good way to gauge the potential success of the concept.
-Hammer-
"I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer
It's already done on a similar scale when apple releases new software for
On 1/27/2012 7:34 AM, Jared Mauch wrote: their mobile devices.
Just don't do it if you are on a low cap plan (eg: mobile, satellite etc). Caps will be the new market discriminator IMHO. Jared Mauch
On Jan 27, 2012, at 3:35 AM, Tei<oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
From what I've read, the XBOX 720 is still going to have traditional distribution but also including online purchasing (think Steam). The goal is to go with a key system to play the game. I think the idea you will be able to register the game via phone, or other means as well. However, their idea is to rid the world of the secondary market of used games.
---- Matthew Huff | 1 Manhattanville Rd Director of Operations | Purchase, NY 10577 OTA Management LLC | Phone: 914-460-4039 aim: matthewbhuff | Fax: 914-460-4139
-----Original Message----- From: Eric Tykwinski [mailto:eric@truenet.com] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:25 AM To: nanog Subject: RE: XBOX 720: possible digital download mass service.
That's the case, but yeah, definitely off-topic... http://www.gamestop.com/ps-vita/games/uncharted-golden-abyss-ps- vita/91436
Which would be on-topic, though. If anyone knows of an OnLive box just to check out the bandwidth usage, I would be interested.
Sincerely,
Eric Tykwinski TrueNet, Inc. P: 610-429-8300 F: 610-429-3222
-----Original Message----- From: -Hammer- [mailto:bhmccie@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:21 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: XBOX 720: possible digital download mass service.
Now we are venturing OT but I thought the format was proprietary but you still had to get the content on the memory via the glorious Internet? Are you saying I can go to Gamestop and buy a stick with whatever game I'm looking for? Is that the plan?
-Hammer-
"I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer
On 1/27/2012 8:13 AM, Eric Tykwinski wrote:
The PS Vita still uses a proprietary memory card format, so it's not just download only. The best example of download only would be OnLive, which basically is a game system that only delivers on demand games.
IMHO, it's the market that will determine whether this is the right choice in the long run. It's a creative way to eliminate the used market and stop piracy, but if the consumers don't join up like the PSP Go, it will eventually fail.
Sincerely,
Eric Tykwinski TrueNet, Inc. P: 610-429-8300 F: 610-429-3222
-----Original Message----- From: -Hammer- [mailto:bhmccie@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:02 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: XBOX 720: possible digital download mass service.
Here's your baseline: Sony Vita. They already tossed the UMD out with the PSP-GO and that failed miserably. Now they are trying again to go to digital only with the Vita. It's not the scale of PS3 or XBOX360 but it may be a good way to gauge the potential success of the concept.
-Hammer-
"I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer
It's already done on a similar scale when apple releases new software for
On 1/27/2012 7:34 AM, Jared Mauch wrote: their mobile devices.
Just don't do it if you are on a low cap plan (eg: mobile, satellite etc). Caps will be the new market discriminator IMHO. Jared Mauch
On Jan 27, 2012, at 3:35 AM, Tei<oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
On Friday, January 27, 2012 11:08:27 PM Matthew Huff wrote:
From what I've read, the XBOX 720 is still going to have traditional distribution but also including online purchasing (think Steam). The goal is to go with a key system to play the game. I think the idea you will be able to register the game via phone, or other means as well. However, their idea is to rid the world of the secondary market of used games.
Or a hybrid. I bought a copy of F1 2011 for PS3 and fired it up. In order to access certain areas of the game, I had to input a code when signed up to the Sony PlayStation Network, which was verified via the Internet. If I had no connectivity, I'd never be able to access those portions of the game. Needless to say, a lot of games are now pushing massive updates via the Internet; on the order of hundreds of MB. Mark.
In article <201201281518.47292.mtinka@globaltransit.net>, Mark Tinka <mtinka@globaltransit.net> writes
Needless to say, a lot of games are now pushing massive updates via the Internet; on the order of hundreds of MB.
So does Microsoft Office (if you can call that a game). -- Roland Perry
On Saturday, January 28, 2012 09:11:24 PM Roland Perry wrote:
So does Microsoft Office (if you can call that a game).
So does Mac OS X Lion (exclusively, more so). But I guess the trend the OP was raising was this distribution method shifting for console games. As many have already mentioned, since the majority of consoles are in the home, the last mile to the home router is likely the choke point in most cases. For consoles that will be sold outside "major" areas, one might not be able to get CDN coverage, so not only do they have to suffer with small last mile pipes, they also need to contend with higher latency to get to the nearest CDN (which may not be so close by). Then, of course, there are those who might not be in a position to get any kind of Internet access to their consoles. This isn't such a terrible thing if games are released both on digital and hard copies, but it's quite unlikely maintenance updates for the game might be available on disc. Mark.
In article <201201282306.00569.mtinka@globaltransit.net>, Mark Tinka <mtinka@globaltransit.net> writes
Then, of course, there are those who might not be in a position to get any kind of Internet access to their consoles. This isn't such a terrible thing if games are released both on digital and hard copies, but it's quite unlikely maintenance updates for the game might be available on disc.
When did you last see a Windows or Office update available on disc? (And don't say "buy the latest version retail" - in my experience they are the ones that are hit with the biggest install-update.) -- Roland Perry
On Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:39:21 PM Roland Perry wrote:
When did you last see a Windows or Office update available on disc?
In my experience (especially in places where Internet access to the home is "tight" or non-existent), Windows and Office is normally used in the office, where Internet access is "not as tight". If folk have Windows or Office on their laptops, they'll take those laptops into the office and run updates from there. If they're using PC's at home, they'll download the offline copies of those updates and go home and install them via disc, USB or whatever. Game consoles don't normally "make it to the office", hence my point earlier. Mark.
I don't know if the box uses any different settings, but using the Windows client on my PC with quality maxed just now I saw a consistent 5.35mbit/sec during action sequences and fast-paced cutscenes, much less of course in menus and such. ---------- Sean Harlow sean@seanharlow.info On Jan 27, 2012, at 9:24 AM, Eric Tykwinski wrote:
Which would be on-topic, though. If anyone knows of an OnLive box just to check out the bandwidth usage, I would be interested.
On 1/27/12 06:13 , Eric Tykwinski wrote:
The PS Vita still uses a proprietary memory card format, so it's not just download only. The best example of download only would be OnLive, which basically is a game system that only delivers on demand games.
Onlive isn't download at all. the games play in the cloud and the input/output is streaming to from your devices. Steam, EA Origin, Xbox live are all examples of download delivery systems.
IMHO, it's the market that will determine whether this is the right choice in the long run. It's a creative way to eliminate the used market and stop piracy, but if the consumers don't join up like the PSP Go, it will eventually fail.
Sincerely,
Eric Tykwinski TrueNet, Inc. P: 610-429-8300 F: 610-429-3222
-----Original Message----- From: -Hammer- [mailto:bhmccie@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:02 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: XBOX 720: possible digital download mass service.
Here's your baseline: Sony Vita. They already tossed the UMD out with the PSP-GO and that failed miserably. Now they are trying again to go to digital only with the Vita. It's not the scale of PS3 or XBOX360 but it may be a good way to gauge the potential success of the concept.
-Hammer-
"I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer
It's already done on a similar scale when apple releases new software for
On 1/27/2012 7:34 AM, Jared Mauch wrote: their mobile devices.
Just don't do it if you are on a low cap plan (eg: mobile, satellite etc).
Caps will be the new market discriminator IMHO.
Jared Mauch
On Jan 27, 2012, at 3:35 AM, Tei<oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
It doesn't have to. Look at Steam on the PC, where digital distribution has been the norm for years (I literally can't remember the last physical copy PC game I purchased). Preorder a game and it gets preloaded in an encrypted form days to weeks in advance of release. On release day, the content is simply activated, you get the key, your PC decrypts it, and you go play. On a well designed digital distribution system the release second traffic spike should be a lot less than you'd think. ---------- Sean Harlow sean@seanharlow.info On Jan 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Tei wrote:
The question is:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Tei wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
I don't see a problem with supporting this. As other posters have said, any congestion that results from this would likely be concentrated at or near 'the last mile' - the downloader's location or the download server's location. Even then, the result would be that it takes longer to download the game data - not a total meltdown. Also, while there would very likely be a big rush to download Call of Duty 15 the millisecond it's released, it's not likely that every one of those 30 million gamers will do that at the same time. I would hope that Microsoft/Sony/other major game producers do some sort of geographic disribution of their downloads, or use one of the several CDNs that are available, if those logistics can be worked out. jms
On 1/27/12 02:35 , Tei wrote:
Can internet in USA support that? Call of Duty 15 releases may 2014 and 30 million gamers start downloading a 20 GB files. Would the internet collapse like a house of cards?.
Given the way the these things are staged, the pre-order/pre-load model works pretty well. I would expect that many users sufficiently interested in Battle Field 3 to acquire it for launch day, already had a copy cached locally that unlocked itself at the right time. Mine did. To the extent that cached content can be tweaked via patching the distribution system can substantially anticipate the release of product.
If not, will be internet USA ready for the next next generation? ( 2018 ).
I've seen this discussion show up in a number of venues lately. I'm not at all surprised about the trend as I've been using Steam for a few years now. I expect they will take a similar path and continue to sell physical medium with keys to tie the game to an account, and do staged downloads using encrypted data which is unlocked at release time. The biggest content for games is really art assets, and much of that work is done months ahead of release and unlikely to change, while fine tuning and game logic (binaries) are small enough that staging downloads in tiers should be easy. There is also the system Blizzard is using for World of Warcraft where the game can stream content down while playing. Most of these publishers/developers already have pretty good grasps on what capabilities are at their disposal thanks to the DLC model they have now, they will just be going an order of magnitude larger on the downloads. I wonder how many will also attempt to leverage P2P models as well to assist CDNs, cheaper for them and maybe even a revenue generator for ISPs charging for transfer overages.
On 01/28/2012 12:01 PM, Josh Hoppes wrote:
...
There is also the system Blizzard is using for World of Warcraft where the game can stream content down while playing. Most of these publishers/developers already have pretty good grasps on what capabilities are at their disposal thanks to the DLC model they have now, they will just be going an order of magnitude larger on the downloads. I wonder how many will also attempt to leverage P2P models as well to assist CDNs, Blizzard already does this, torrent-like downloads for larger patch sets. At least, unlike torrent itself, the upload direction does stop when you stop the game... cheaper for them and maybe even a revenue generator for ISPs charging for transfer overages. -- Pete
participants (21)
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-Hammer- -
Anurag Bhatia -
Eric Tykwinski -
Eric Tykwinski -
Jared Mauch -
Joel jaeggli -
Josh Hoppes -
Justin M. Streiner -
Lamar Owen -
Mark Tinka -
Matthew Huff -
Nathan Eisenberg -
Pete Carah -
Randy Bush -
Ray Soucy -
Roland Perry -
Saku Ytti -
Sean Harlow -
Seth Mattinen -
Tei -
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