My favorite youtuber has just pointed out that Bougainville will separate formally from Papua New Guinea in 2027, which, surprisingly, is only 5 or 6 years from now. So I looked up .bv, and of course... it's assigned to Bouvet Island, an uninhabited island whose political superior says anything that might go in that TLD will go in .no instead. [Wikipedia] So, what's the actual status of .bv? Assigned, or reserved? And if it is reserved at the 3166 secretariat level, can they reassign it? NORID might try to make a case that BV is the common corporate abbreviation in their political subdivision... but they're not selling those domains now, so that doesn't seem compelling. Anyone here got a buddy on the secretariat? :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On Dec 3, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
So, what's the actual status of .bv? Assigned, or reserved?
Assigned: https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:code:3166:BV <https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:code:3166:BV>
Anyone here got a buddy on the secretariat? :-)
Even if they did, transitioning codes is a long (99 year? I’ve forgotten) process… Regards, -drc
In general I could I understand that, but it is my understanding that the domain is still marked reserved at the Secretariat, which is to say they could not have assigned any domains in it yet, even if they were inclined to which we are told they are not. In short, I think this is a possibility not an impossibility or I wouldn't have asked. -- jra On December 3, 2021 6:24:22 PM EST, David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org> wrote:
On Dec 3, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
So, what's the actual status of .bv? Assigned, or reserved?
Assigned: https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:code:3166:BV <https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:code:3166:BV>
Anyone here got a buddy on the secretariat? :-)
Even if they did, transitioning codes is a long (99 year? I’ve forgotten) process…
Regards, -drc
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Jay, On Dec 3, 2021, at 4:46 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
In general I could I understand that, but it is my understanding that the domain is still marked reserved at the Secretariat,
Sorry, which secretariat? As far as I know, the official status of ISO 3166-1 Alpha 2 codes is specified by the ISO-3166 Maintenance Agency and listed on the ISO website (the “online browsing platform” output for BV being the URL I provided).
which is to say they could not have assigned any domains in it yet, even if they were inclined to which we are told they are not.
ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 codes are used for more than TLDs.
In short, I think this is a possibility not an impossibility or I wouldn't have asked.
“With enough thrust, pigs fly quite well although the landing can be messy.” However, realistically, I suspect you’d need to get the government of Norway to actively pursue something like transitioning BV from their auspices to anywhere else. I also suspect the government of Bougainville (which I gather doesn’t yet exist) would need to request the change (and get an exception from the 50 year hold down timer). I am a bit skeptical... Regards, -drc
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Conrad" <drc@virtualized.org>
Jay,
On Dec 3, 2021, at 4:46 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
In general I could I understand that, but it is my understanding that the domain is still marked reserved at the Secretariat,
Sorry, which secretariat? As far as I know, the official status of ISO 3166-1 Alpha 2 codes is specified by the ISO-3166 Maintenance Agency and listed on the ISO website (the “online browsing platform” output for BV being the URL I provided).
The ISO 3166 secretariat, yes.
which is to say they could not have assigned any domains in it yet, even if they were inclined to which we are told they are not.
ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 codes are used for more than TLDs.
True.
In short, I think this is a possibility not an impossibility or I wouldn't have asked.
“With enough thrust, pigs fly quite well although the landing can be messy.”
However, realistically, I suspect you’d need to get the government of Norway to actively pursue something like transitioning BV from their auspices to anywhere else. I also suspect the government of Bougainville (which I gather doesn’t yet exist) would need to request the change (and get an exception from the 50 year hold down timer). I am a bit skeptical...
Oh, there's a *formal* 50 year timer? Apologies, I'd missed that one. Yeah, as crappy as it will be for them to not have that 3166 code, you're probably right that it won't happen. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
"Jay R. Ashworth" writes:
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Conrad" <drc@virtualized.org>
Jay,
On Dec 3, 2021, at 4:46 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
In general I could I understand that, but it is my understanding that the domain is still marked reserved at the Secretariat,
Sorry, which secretariat? As far as I know, the official status of ISO 3166-1 Alpha 2 codes is specified by the ISO-3166 Maintenance Agency and listed on the ISO website (the “online browsing platform” output for BV being the URL I provided).
The ISO 3166 secretariat, yes.
It is no makred as reserved but assigned. jaap
Hi, Not only is the ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code assigned but the ccTLD is delegated to NORID's nameservers. NORID also makes it pretty clear that they are not interested in selling the TLD, and I suspect that might very well mirror the position of the Norwegian government. While something like another country is a different thing to just a company wanting to profit from a TLD, it still seems unlikely to me. Another example: back in 2011 when South Sudan gained independence, they got an ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code which was "SS" which could understandably have some problems given historical context for that letter combination.[1] So not getting "BV" is a pretty minor thing in comparison to that, IMHO. There are many countries/geographical entities that have far from perfect ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes. I think pretty much all codes ending in an X is because there were no better ones available. (I am not certain on this part though) [1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sudan-independence-idUSTRE75S4A520110629 -Cynthia On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 12:17 PM Jaap Akkerhuis <jaap@nlnetlabs.nl> wrote:
"Jay R. Ashworth" writes:
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Conrad" <drc@virtualized.org>
Jay,
On Dec 3, 2021, at 4:46 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
In general I could I understand that, but it is my understanding that the domain is still marked reserved at the Secretariat,
Sorry, which secretariat? As far as I know, the official status of ISO 3166-1 Alpha 2 codes is specified by the ISO-3166 Maintenance Agency and listed on the ISO website (the “online browsing platform” output for BV being the URL I provided).
The ISO 3166 secretariat, yes.
It is no makred as reserved but assigned.
jaap
Oh dear. They actually gave them .SS? Wow. On December 4, 2021 10:18:26 AM EST, "Cynthia Revström" <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Hi,
Not only is the ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code assigned but the ccTLD is delegated to NORID's nameservers. NORID also makes it pretty clear that they are not interested in selling the TLD, and I suspect that might very well mirror the position of the Norwegian government. While something like another country is a different thing to just a company wanting to profit from a TLD, it still seems unlikely to me.
Another example: back in 2011 when South Sudan gained independence, they got an ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code which was "SS" which could understandably have some problems given historical context for that letter combination.[1]
So not getting "BV" is a pretty minor thing in comparison to that, IMHO. There are many countries/geographical entities that have far from perfect ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes. I think pretty much all codes ending in an X is because there were no better ones available. (I am not certain on this part though)
[1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sudan-independence-idUSTRE75S4A520110629
-Cynthia
On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 12:17 PM Jaap Akkerhuis <jaap@nlnetlabs.nl> wrote:
"Jay R. Ashworth" writes:
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Conrad" <drc@virtualized.org>
Jay,
On Dec 3, 2021, at 4:46 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
In general I could I understand that, but it is my understanding that the domain is still marked reserved at the Secretariat,
Sorry, which secretariat? As far as I know, the official status of ISO 3166-1 Alpha 2 codes is specified by the ISO-3166 Maintenance Agency and listed on the ISO website (the “online browsing platform” output for BV being the URL I provided).
The ISO 3166 secretariat, yes.
It is no makred as reserved but assigned.
jaap
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On Sat, Dec 04, 2021 at 10:20:16AM -0500, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote a message of 121 lines which said:
Oh dear. They actually gave them .SS?
It's an european reference. For the local people, this 2-letters code probably means nothing special, it is not their history. (I assume that the there is a discussion with the local government before assigning them a code.)
On Dec 5, 2021, at 10:59 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 04, 2021 at 10:20:16AM -0500, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote a message of 121 lines which said:
Oh dear. They actually gave them .SS?
It's an european reference. For the local people, this 2-letters code probably means nothing special, it is not their history.
(I assume that the there is a discussion with the local government before assigning them a code.)
I’m an American, yet I know full well what SS meant in the 1940s, which is what I presume is alluded to here. I think it is safe to say that WWII is the history of people well beyond just Europe. Owen
On 12/6/21 10:22, Owen DeLong via NANOG wrote:
I’m an American, yet I know full well what SS meant in the 1940s, which is what I presume is alluded to here.
I think it is safe to say that WWII is the history of people well beyond just Europe.
There are going to be negative connotations to many two-letter combinations. Many of these will vary depending on the language of the person observing them. Likewise there are going to coexist non-negative connotations. For example, the US Secret Service is also commonly abbreviated SS. https://abbreviations.woxikon.com/en/ss -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
On 2021-12-04, at 16:18, Cynthia Revström via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
I think pretty much all codes ending in an X is because there were no better ones available. (I am not certain on this part though)
I don’t think the Mexicans would agree :-) .bx (Benelux) is reserved only, but it is another counter-example. Grüße, Carsten
On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 5:03 PM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 2021-12-04, at 16:18, Cynthia Revström via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
I think pretty much all codes ending in an X is because there were no better ones available. (I am not certain on this part though)
I don’t think the Mexicans would agree :-)
Oh oops, not sure how I forgot about that one, I just thought about ax, cx, and sx.
.bx (Benelux) is reserved only, but it is another counter-example.
I am really nitpicking here but I believe BX is one of the cases of not being a ccTLD but just ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code for some other reason (seemingly for trademark/IP reasons in this case). -Cynthia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaap Akkerhuis" <jaap@NLnetLabs.nl>
It is no makred as reserved but assigned.
So this sentence in the wikipedia article: "The domain remains reserved for potential future use. " speaks from the viewpoint of NORID, not of the MA. Got it. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
David Conrad writes:
Jay,
In general I could I understand that, but it is my understanding that =
On Dec 3, 2021, at 4:46 PM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote: the domain is still marked reserved at the Secretariat,
Sorry, which secretariat?
I'm curious about that secretariat as well.
As far as I know, the official status of ISO 3166-1 Alpha 2 codes is specified by the ISO-3166 Maintenance Agency and listed on the ISO website (the "Conline browsing platform" output for BV being the URL I provided).
For a one page overview, see the brosing table at <https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:pub:PUB500001:en, which has links to the OBP. jaap
It appears that David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org> said:
Anyone here got a buddy on the secretariat? :-)
Even if they did, transitioning codes is a long (99 year? I’ve forgotten) process…
It's only 50, but yeah, it's not changing any time soon. There's over 300 unassigned codes to choose from. GV or UV perhaps? R's, John
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Levine" <johnl@iecc.com>
There's over 300 unassigned codes to choose from. GV or UV perhaps?
I'm sure *I* would fight for a 3166 code that started with the first letter of my country name. But it's not my country, so my concerns are esthetic, and academic (in either send of the word). Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
According to Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com>:
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Levine" <johnl@iecc.com>
There's over 300 unassigned codes to choose from. GV or UV perhaps?
I'm sure *I* would fight for a 3166 code that started with the first letter of my country name. But it's not my country, so my concerns are esthetic, and academic (in either send of the word).
I suspect the Bougainvillians (Bougainvillains?) have a few more urgent topics to attend to. The island's only significant asset is a huge copper mine which has been closed since 1989 when the civil war started. If they can't figure out how to both get the mine open again and to deal with the environmental mess left by the former operator, they won't have much of a country. R's, John -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Levine" <johnl@iecc.com>
I suspect the Bougainvillians (Bougainvillains?) have a few more urgent topics to attend to. The island's only significant asset is a huge copper mine which has been closed since 1989 when the civil war started. If they can't figure out how to both get the mine open again and to deal with the environmental mess left by the former operator, they won't have much of a country.
Well, sure, but with the copper deposit measured in double-digit billions, it seems sane to assume they've got a plan there... Though given .TV's benefits to Tuvalu, and the number of Scandahoovian businesses that are BVs... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
It appears that Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> said:
Well, sure, but with the copper deposit measured in double-digit billions, it seems sane to assume they've got a plan there...
It's been 30 years. We can hope but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Though given .TV's benefits to Tuvalu, and the number of Scandahoovian
You misspelled Dutch.
businesses that are BVs...
Quite a while ago I met a guy at an ICANN meeting who'd made a deal with American Samoa to sell .AS domains since AS is the corporate abbreviation in several European countries. It went nowhere, the Samoans took it back. R's, John
"John Levine" writes:
It appears that Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> said:
Well, sure, but with the copper deposit measured in double-digit billions, it seems sane to assume they've got a plan there...
It's been 30 years. We can hope but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Though given .TV's benefits to Tuvalu, and the number of Scandahoovian
You misspelled Dutch.
businesses that are BVs...
Quite a while ago I met a guy at an ICANN meeting who'd made a deal with American Samoa to sell .AS domains since AS is the corporate abbreviation in several European countries. It went nowhere, the Samoans took it back.
Similar ideas where held for MD and TM but didn'y seem to work out. Furthermore, an indepent Bougainville mighs change the name to something else (as Zimbabwe did). jaap
Jaap Akkerhuis wrote on 04/12/2021 21:13:
Similar ideas where held for MD and TM but didn'y seem to work out. Furthermore, an indepent Bougainville mighs change the name to something else (as Zimbabwe did).
this is not unusual: .tp became one of the shortest-lived cctlds, and was dropped in favour of .tl. Apparently, there are two hard problems facing newly-create states: cash invalidation and naming things. Nick
Dear NANOGers, Hope this email finds you in good health. Please find my comment below, inline... Le samedi 4 décembre 2021, Jaap Akkerhuis <jaap@nlnetlabs.nl> a écrit :
[...]
Quite a while ago I met a guy at an ICANN meeting who'd made a deal with American Samoa to sell .AS domains since AS is the corporate abbreviation in several European countries. It went nowhere, the Samoans took it back.
Similar ideas where held for MD and TM but didn'y seem to work out. Furthermore, an indepent Bougainville mighs change the name to something else (as Zimbabwe did).
Hi Jaap, Thanks for your email, brother. It's, imho, exactly the right compromise to do. ...still available ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 codes: bc, bk, bp and: vb All those names are not yet delegated zones within the DNS; therefore they are all available to be used as ccTLD: .bc ? .bk ? .bp ? .vb ? ...bougainvilleans [1] should just pick one to start the processes of securing both Alpha-2 & ccTLD. __ [1]: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bougainville_Island> Shalom, --sb.
jaap
-- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure> Subscribe to Mailing List: <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/> __ #LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec vous tous! #Amen!» #MaPrière est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement «Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaap Akkerhuis" <jaap@NLnetLabs.nl>
Similar ideas where held for MD and TM but didn'y seem to work out. Furthermore, an indepent Bougainville mighs change the name to something else (as Zimbabwe did).
On reflection, I don't think .inc has played all that well either. As for the name, though, my understanding was that it's not *presently* Bougainville; it's still PNG. That was the name the prospective government had chosen to use. Clearly I have learned my lesson this week about researching. :-} Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
It appears that Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> said:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaap Akkerhuis" <jaap@NLnetLabs.nl>
Similar ideas where held for MD and TM but didn'y seem to work out. Furthermore, an indepent Bougainville mighs change the name to something else (as Zimbabwe did).
On reflection, I don't think .inc has played all that well either.
From ICANN's recent round of new domains:
22793 .llc 114209 .ltd 3924 .inc 23812 .gmbh The larger number in .ltd and .gmbh and .llc is likely because they don't check that you are actually incorporated and the price is about $25 or $50. For .inc they don't check either but the price is more like $2000. They're all pretty lame compared to .biz with 1.4 million, or .com with 158 million. R's, John
----- On Dec 3, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com wrote: Hi,
NORID might try to make a case that BV is the common corporate abbreviation in their political subdivision...
Same for .nl. Most people on this list will be familiar with AMS-IX BV. Thanks, Sabri
Sabri Berisha writes:
----- On Dec 3, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com wrote:
Hi,
NORID might try to make a case that BV is the common corporate abbreviation in their political subdivision...
Same for .nl. Most people on this list will be familiar with AMS-IX BV.
SIDN and NORID once considered to market .BV together: <https://www.sidn.nl/en/news-and-blogs/sidn-and-norid-consider-a-bv-domain-for-the-dutch-business-community> jaap
Jaap Akkerhuis <jaap@NLnetLabs.nl> writes:
SIDN and NORID once considered to market .BV together: <https://www.sidn.nl/en/news-and-blogs/sidn-and-norid-consider-a-bv-domain-for-the-dutch-business-community>
The rest of the story is here: https://www.norid.no/en/aktuelt/plans-to-utilize-bv-shelved-en/ Bjørn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjørn Mork" <bjorn@mork.no>
The rest of the story is here: https://www.norid.no/en/aktuelt/plans-to-utilize-bv-shelved-en/
Sadly, that's not really The Rest... Of The Story. Sounds like the government regulator nixed it, giving *no reason at all*. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
It does seem like the rest of the story to me. If the government said no, then that is pretty much it, that is the end of the story regardless of what reason given. (Assuming that it was done correctly and that laws regarding it don't change that is) -Cynthia On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 5:35 PM Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjørn Mork" <bjorn@mork.no>
The rest of the story is here: https://www.norid.no/en/aktuelt/plans-to-utilize-bv-shelved-en/
Sadly, that's not really The Rest... Of The Story. Sounds like the government regulator nixed it, giving *no reason at all*.
Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On 04/12/2021 00:45, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
My favorite youtuber has just pointed out that Bougainville will separate formally from Papua New Guinea in 2027, which, surprisingly, is only 5 or 6 years from now.
So I looked up .bv, and of course... it's assigned to Bouvet Island, an uninhabited island whose political superior says anything that might go in that TLD will go in .no instead. [Wikipedia]
So, what's the actual status of .bv? Assigned, or reserved? And if it is reserved at the 3166 secretariat level, can they reassign it?
NORID might try to make a case that BV is the common corporate abbreviation in their political subdivision... but they're not selling those domains now, so that doesn't seem compelling.
Anyone here got a buddy on the secretariat? :-)
Cheers, -- jra
All handling of ccTLDs are handled via the ccNSO of ICANN: https://ccnso.icann.org/en For example ccTLD retirement is a multi-year and perhaps multi-decade process: https://ccnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/field-attached/ccpdp3-retirement... https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64081623&preview=/64081623/166266006/Final%20Report%20ccPDP3%20Retirement%20-%20June%202021.pdf Regards, Hank
participants (15)
-
Bjørn Mork -
Carsten Bormann -
Cynthia Revström -
David Conrad -
Hank Nussbacher -
Jaap Akkerhuis -
Jay Ashworth -
Jay Hennigan -
Jay R. Ashworth
-
John Levine -
Nick Hilliard -
Owen DeLong -
Sabri Berisha -
Stephane Bortzmeyer -
Sylvain Baya