99% of HK internet traffic goes thru uni being fought over?
Is this plausible? https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/heres-real-reason-why-hong-kong-autho... or http://tinyurl.com/slwchx8 -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
HKIX is definitely the incumbent IXP in that region, but I'd reckon that most high volume interconnection will take place in facilities like Mega-iAdvantage or Equinix HK1 via PNI. Plus there are several alternative IXPs in Hong Kong that also handle undisclosed amounts of traffic. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of bzs@theworld.com <bzs@theworld.com> Sent: 19 November 2019 22:43:34 To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: 99% of HK internet traffic goes thru uni being fought over? Is this plausible? https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/heres-real-reason-why-hong-kong-autho... or http://tinyurl.com/slwchx8 -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
On 11/19/19 1:43 PM, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
Is this plausible?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/heres-real-reason-why-hong-kong-autho...
or
uh... Zerohedge has been (at worst) a Russian asset for a good five-eight years. At best, a Russian dupe. Not credible in the least. Don't @ me -- if you don't keep up with the orientation and credibility of disinformation shill web sites like Zerohedge that's on you, not me. - John --
Dude, frankly Zero Hedge is a joke. Facts and respect are as foreign to them as to a certain American President. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of bzs@theworld.com <bzs@theworld.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2019 10:43 PM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: 99% of HK internet traffic goes thru uni being fought over? Is this plausible? https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/heres-real-reason-why-hong-kong-autho... or http://tinyurl.com/slwchx8 -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
Thanks everyone for the replies. My conclusion is that no one here knows whether HKIX handles 99% of internet traffic for HK or not. It's a number. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
On Nov 20, 2019, at 4:41 PM, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
Thanks everyone for the replies. My conclusion is that no one here knows whether HKIX handles 99% of internet traffic for HK or not.
No more than any other site. Most IXPs may have a significant amount of traffic but it’s certainly not all of the traffic in a market. Generally I’ve seen that private interconnects in major cities (like HK) are more than the public (IXP) interconnects. Anyone claiming 99% of a market unless they’re the monopoly incumbent last-mile provider i treat with a properly sized piece of salt. - Jared
On 11/20/19 1:41 PM, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
Thanks everyone for the replies. My conclusion is that no one here knows whether HKIX handles 99% of internet traffic for HK or not.
It's a number.
mmm... Since you clearly did *not* read any of the previous replies or chose to ignore them, the odds of your just trolling the list is beginning to approach ... wait for it ... 99% But for sake of argument, any article that's headlined "Here's The Real Reason Why..." should be ignored completely. See: Tyler Durden and Zerohedge as one. Anyone who's eager to tell you the "Real Reason(tm)" for anything is trolling for clicks. Then, as to Internet traffic, the probability that 99% of *all* Internet traffic to one global political entity (Hong Kong) goes through one single physical location that just happens to be a university currently experiencing student protests is ... yeah... I take it you know nothing about Internetworking? Or, again, Zerohedge? /fin - John --
On November 20, 2019 at 15:11 jsage@finchhaven.com (John Sage) wrote:
Then, as to Internet traffic, the probability that 99% of *all* Internet traffic to one global political entity (Hong Kong) goes through one single physical location that just happens to be a university currently experiencing student protests is ... yeah...
Interesting theory.
I take it you know nothing about Internetworking?
Perhaps you should look at https://www.TheWorld.com/~bzs
Or, again, Zerohedge?
Nope, knew nothing off-hand about them but wikipedia seems to concur that Zerohedge is likely a "Russian asset". Thanks. Nonetheless it doesn't particularly mean that 99% of HK traffic *doesn't* go thru that facility, not alone. Broad comparisons to other national internet structures as you appeal to seems to be questionable in regards to a Special Administrative Region of The People's Republic of China, albeit officially ruled under "one system, two ways", HK being one of the regions (Macau being the other) which is ruled under the "second" way. China can be unique in their communications policies and practices. Which is why I asked hoping someone knew the facts rather than had an opinion about the particular source or some theory unifying all national internet infrastructures under some simple rule of thumb. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
Excerpt from http://www.hkix.net/hkix/Presentation/forum20100129.pdf (Page 3) Two Main Sites for resilience •HKIX1: CUHK Campus in Shatin •HKIX2: CITIC Tower in Central We are confident to say that because of HKIX, more than 99% intra--HK Internet traffic is kept within HK -----Original Message----- From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of bzs@theworld.com Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 2:06 PM To: John Sage <jsage@finchhaven.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org; bzs@theworld.com Subject: Re: 99% of HK internet traffic goes thru uni being fought over? On November 20, 2019 at 15:11 mailto:jsage@finchhaven.com (John Sage) wrote:
Then, as to Internet traffic, the probability that 99% of *all* Internet > traffic to one global political entity (Hong Kong) goes through one > single physical location that just happens to be a university currently > experiencing student protests is ... yeah...
Interesting theory.
I take it you know nothing about Internetworking?
Perhaps you should look at https://www.TheWorld.com/~bzs
Or, again, Zerohedge?
Nope, knew nothing off-hand about them but wikipedia seems to concur that Zerohedge is likely a "Russian asset". Thanks. Nonetheless it doesn't particularly mean that 99% of HK traffic *doesn't* go thru that facility, not alone. Broad comparisons to other national internet structures as you appeal to seems to be questionable in regards to a Special Administrative Region of The People's Republic of China, albeit officially ruled under "one system, two ways", HK being one of the regions (Macau being the other) which is ruled under the "second" way. China can be unique in their communications policies and practices. Which is why I asked hoping someone knew the facts rather than had an opinion about the particular source or some theory unifying all national internet infrastructures under some simple rule of thumb. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
On 21 November 2019 23:48:33 CET, "Mahmutovic, Jas" <Jas.Mahmutovic@spirent.com> wrote:
Excerpt from http://www.hkix.net/hkix/Presentation/forum20100129.pdf (Page 3)
Two Main Sites for resilience
•HKIX1: CUHK Campus in Shatin •HKIX2: CITIC Tower in Central
We are confident to say that because of HKIX, more than 99% intra--HK Internet traffic is kept within HK
And this is a completely different thing than saying that 99% of HKG traffic passes through HKIX. Written this way it may as well be true since it only means that it neatly complements whatever transit and private peering arrangements the local operators have. Exercise for the reader: - find out who the local access providers are - find where they peer and at what capacity - find who gives them transit - try some traceroutes After this you'll concur with my original assessment about the nitrates content of the statement at subject -- Pierfrancesco Caci
I didn't say 99% infra-HK Internet traffic *went through* HKIX. 😊 Che-Hoo On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 9:41 AM Mahmutovic, Jas <Jas.Mahmutovic@spirent.com> wrote:
Excerpt from http://www.hkix.net/hkix/Presentation/forum20100129.pdf (Page 3)
Two Main Sites for resilience
•HKIX1: CUHK Campus in Shatin •HKIX2: CITIC Tower in Central
We are confident to say that because of HKIX, more than 99% intra--HK Internet traffic is kept within HK
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of bzs@theworld.com Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 2:06 PM To: John Sage <jsage@finchhaven.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org; bzs@theworld.com Subject: Re: 99% of HK internet traffic goes thru uni being fought over?
On November 20, 2019 at 15:11 mailto:jsage@finchhaven.com (John Sage) wrote:
Then, as to Internet traffic, the probability that 99% of *all* Internet > traffic to one global political entity (Hong Kong) goes through one > single physical location that just happens to be a university currently > experiencing student protests is ... yeah...
Interesting theory.
I take it you know nothing about Internetworking?
Perhaps you should look at https://www.TheWorld.com/~bzs
Or, again, Zerohedge?
Nope, knew nothing off-hand about them but wikipedia seems to concur that Zerohedge is likely a "Russian asset". Thanks.
Nonetheless it doesn't particularly mean that 99% of HK traffic *doesn't* go thru that facility, not alone.
Broad comparisons to other national internet structures as you appeal to seems to be questionable in regards to a Special Administrative Region of The People's Republic of China, albeit officially ruled under "one system, two ways", HK being one of the regions (Macau being the other) which is ruled under the "second" way.
China can be unique in their communications policies and practices.
Which is why I asked hoping someone knew the facts rather than had an opinion about the particular source or some theory unifying all national internet infrastructures under some simple rule of thumb.
-- -Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
On Nov 20, 2019, at 1:41 PM, bzs@theworld.com wrote: Thanks everyone for the replies. My conclusion is that no one here knows whether HKIX handles 99% of internet traffic for HK or not.
That’s incorrect. I’m here, and I know that: 1) HKIX does not handle anywhere near 99% of Hong Kong’s Internet traffic. 2) Much of HKIX is in TKO anyway, rather than up at the CUHK campus. 3) CUHK isn’t the university where the protests are anyway, that’s Hong Kong Polytechnic. 4) CUHK is way up in the New Territories. HK Polytechnic is in Tsim Sha Tsui. TKO is way off in the east. These are all about as far apart as it’s possible to get in Hong Kong. -Bill
Some clarifications: The 2 HKIX core sites (hosting the spine switches and the major leaf switches where most participants are connecting to) are located within CUHK campus. There are only 2 leaf switches of HKIX which are located at TKO area. CUHK Campus was heavily attacked by the Police before PolyU Campus was heavily attacked. There was fear that the attack would affect HKIX which, although not really handling 99% of HK Internet traffic, does carry up to 1.4Tbps of Internet traffic at peak. Che-Hoo no longer with HKIX On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 9:14 AM Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 20, 2019, at 1:41 PM, bzs@theworld.com wrote: Thanks everyone for the replies. My conclusion is that no one here knows whether HKIX handles 99% of internet traffic for HK or not.
That’s incorrect. I’m here, and I know that:
1) HKIX does not handle anywhere near 99% of Hong Kong’s Internet traffic.
2) Much of HKIX is in TKO anyway, rather than up at the CUHK campus.
3) CUHK isn’t the university where the protests are anyway, that’s Hong Kong Polytechnic.
4) CUHK is way up in the New Territories. HK Polytechnic is in Tsim Sha Tsui. TKO is way off in the east. These are all about as far apart as it’s possible to get in Hong Kong.
-Bill
Thank you for the authoritative answer. I think we can now consider the question closed. -Bill
On Nov 22, 2019, at 03:36, Che-Hoo CHENG <chcheng@ieee.org> wrote:
Some clarifications:
The 2 HKIX core sites (hosting the spine switches and the major leaf switches where most participants are connecting to) are located within CUHK campus. There are only 2 leaf switches of HKIX which are located at TKO area.
CUHK Campus was heavily attacked by the Police before PolyU Campus was heavily attacked. There was fear that the attack would affect HKIX which, although not really handling 99% of HK Internet traffic, does carry up to 1.4Tbps of Internet traffic at peak.
Che-Hoo no longer with HKIX
On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 9:14 AM Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 20, 2019, at 1:41 PM, bzs@theworld.com wrote: Thanks everyone for the replies. My conclusion is that no one here knows whether HKIX handles 99% of internet traffic for HK or not.
That’s incorrect. I’m here, and I know that:
1) HKIX does not handle anywhere near 99% of Hong Kong’s Internet traffic.
2) Much of HKIX is in TKO anyway, rather than up at the CUHK campus.
3) CUHK isn’t the university where the protests are anyway, that’s Hong Kong Polytechnic.
4) CUHK is way up in the New Territories. HK Polytechnic is in Tsim Sha Tsui. TKO is way off in the east. These are all about as far apart as it’s possible to get in Hong Kong.
-Bill
On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 04:41:13PM -0500, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
Thanks everyone for the replies. My conclusion is that no one here knows whether HKIX handles 99% of internet traffic for HK or not.
Barry, While it's absolutely a number we don't have, it's also worth asking what we are trying to measure. 99% of HK traffic by volume... Or 99% of HK traffic by "doesn't touch the mainland, or increasingly corruptible US companies that also engage in censorship." --msa
In terms of bits, MOST Hong Kong traffic does NOT traverse HKIX. However, Hong Kong ISPs, almost entirely communicate with each other of HKIX. Sources like Akamai and Google, however, do not typically traverse HKIX. These are the majority of traffic. 99% of Hong Kong is connected to HKIX, by traverses? No. On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 1:42 PM <bzs@theworld.com> wrote:
Thanks everyone for the replies. My conclusion is that no one here knows whether HKIX handles 99% of internet traffic for HK or not.
It's a number.
-- -Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
Akamai and Google do have 100Gbps connections to HKIX so traffic volume should not be low, though not majority. Anyway, I did post on FB on that day (Nov 12) when CUHK campus was heavily attacked by the Police that HKIX is not really that critical to HK Internet traffic as there are many Internet hubs in HK... Che-Hoo no longer with HKIX On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:50 AM Tom Paseka via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
In terms of bits, MOST Hong Kong traffic does NOT traverse HKIX.
However, Hong Kong ISPs, almost entirely communicate with each other of HKIX.
Sources like Akamai and Google, however, do not typically traverse HKIX. These are the majority of traffic.
99% of Hong Kong is connected to HKIX, by traverses? No.
On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 1:42 PM <bzs@theworld.com> wrote:
Thanks everyone for the replies. My conclusion is that no one here knows whether HKIX handles 99% of internet traffic for HK or not.
It's a number.
-- -Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
participants (11)
-
Bill Woodcock -
bzs＠theworld.com -
Che-Hoo CHENG -
Jared Mauch -
John Sage -
Mahmutovic, Jas -
Majdi S. Abbas -
Martijn Schmidt -
Pierfrancesco Caci -
Rod Beck -
Tom Paseka