dumb question: are any of the RIR's out of IPv4 addresses?
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening? Mike
Pretty sure APNIC is out of addresses. It's now a matter of "when someone sells a block, you buy a block". On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:07 AM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
Mike
APNIC continues to have a final /8 policy and can allocate or assign up to a /23 to new entrants from its holdings. APNIC reclaims unused IP addresses. https://www.apnic.net/manage-ip/ipv4-exhaustion/ On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 9:15 AM Jennifer Sims <jenn@jenn.id.au> wrote:
Pretty sure APNIC is out of addresses.
It's now a matter of "when someone sells a block, you buy a block".
On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:07 AM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
Mike
Are their legtimate websites to go to purchase new blocks? ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jamann=mt.gov@nanog.org> on behalf of Jennifer Sims <jenn@jenn.id.au> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 4:10 PM To: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: dumb question: are any of the RIR's out of IPv4 addresses? Pretty sure APNIC is out of addresses. It's now a matter of "when someone sells a block, you buy a block". On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:07 AM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com<mailto:mike@mtcc.com>> wrote: Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening? Mike
* nanog@nanog.org (Mann, Jason via NANOG) [Wed 17 Feb 2021, 00:44 CET]:
Are their legtimate websites to go to purchase new blocks?
IPv4 is not like Bitcoin, new addresses aren't being mined using gigantic amounts of electricity at enormous environmental cost. -- Niels.
On 16 Feb 2021, at 6:50 PM, Niels Bakker <niels=nanog@bakker.net> wrote:
* nanog@nanog.org (Mann, Jason via NANOG) [Wed 17 Feb 2021, 00:44 CET]:
Are their legtimate websites to go to purchase new blocks?
IPv4 is not like Bitcoin, new addresses aren't being mined using gigantic amounts of electricity at enormous environmental cost.
Niels - True, but there is some similarity between IPv4 market and bitcoin due to market operations… i.e. when the price of bitcoin goes up, folks are encouraged to explore additional mining – fFor IPv4, when the price goes up, folks invest resources looking for poorly utilized IPv4 blocks (their own or others) in order to free them up for monetization. Given the rich and colorful decades of issuance under varying policies, there’s quite a bit of space out there to be “mined” (It’s also worth noting that at a higher price points, parties with IPv4 are encouraged to explore IPv6 and IPv4 NAT to free up even their well-utilized IPv4 resources – effectively resulting in a very large latent “supply” if the price points should get high enough…) FYI, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers
Hi,
On Feb 16, 2021, at 15:42, Mann, Jason via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Are their legtimate websites to go to purchase new blocks?
look at https://www.v4escrow.com as it may be what you are looking for. Elvis
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jamann=mt.gov@nanog.org> on behalf of Jennifer Sims <jenn@jenn.id.au> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 4:10 PM To: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: dumb question: are any of the RIR's out of IPv4 addresses?
Pretty sure APNIC is out of addresses.
It's now a matter of "when someone sells a block, you buy a block".
On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:07 AM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
Mike
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 6:06 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
isn't the answer to this: "All except AFRNic announced their pools were empty." and: "you can go to the transfer market and arrange transfer of ips for pesos (and the proper RIR golden ticketry of course)"
On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 9:21 AM Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 6:06 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
isn't the answer to this: "All except AFRNic announced their pools were empty."
and: "you can go to the transfer market and arrange transfer of ips for pesos (and the proper RIR golden ticketry of course)"
It depends on if you already have IPv4, and how much, and when you last got it. If you have none and can make a reasoned case, you can get up to a /23 in APNIC. If you have some but haven't yet got your final /8 you may qualify for up to a /23. If you already got your final /23 you can't apply for more. Open market is not the same as "has run out" -the conditionality on who gets the small amounts which remain, do not mean nothing remains.
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:07 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations?
All of them except possibly Afrinic.
If so, what is happening?
You find someone who has listed their IP addresses for sale via a broker, buy them, and then request a specified transfer at the RIR which transfers those addresses to you. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 8:06 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
In LAC region (LACNIC, NIC.br and NIC.mx), the controlled depletion phases are now complete and the RIR reached 0 available IPv4 addresses, regardless of request type (new entrants or not, small or large allocations). There is a continuous reclaim process that from time to time reallocates previously allocated addresses, or blocks that might come from IANA reclaim process. For the requests made in 2020(only new entrants up to /22 allowed), odds are all got or will get their block this year. For the ones requesting this year, the outlook is not so favorable and it might take years. Or possibly never. Rubens
You may find this article interesting: https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-status-of-ipv4-... Sent from my iPad
On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
Mike
On 2/16/21 4:18 PM, Fred Baker wrote:
You may find this article interesting: https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-status-of-ipv4-... <https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-status-of-ipv4-address-allocation/>
So aside from Afrinic, this is all being done on the gray market? Wouldn't you expect that price to follow something like an exponential curve as available addresses become more and more scarce and unavailable for essentially any price? Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
Mike
That depends on your definition of grey market, there is an officially approved ARIN IP block transfer process for people who are buying, via brokers, discrete /24s and larger. On Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 4:46 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
On 2/16/21 4:18 PM, Fred Baker wrote:
You may find this article interesting:
https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-status-of-ipv4-...
< https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-status-of-ipv4-...
So aside from Afrinic, this is all being done on the gray market? Wouldn't you expect that price to follow something like an exponential curve as available addresses become more and more scarce and unavailable for essentially any price?
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
Mike
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 4:47 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
So aside from Afrinic, this is all being done on the gray market?
Hi Mike, No. The market is fully above board with policies written into the RIR operations to intentionally support its existence. In the ARIN region that's things like the "specified transfer" policy.
Wouldn't you expect that price to follow something like an exponential curve as available addresses become more and more scarce and unavailable for essentially any price?
Most likely, but it's a long curve and we're very, very early on it. Still lots of eyeballs using public IPv4 addresses who wouldn't be significantly inconvenienced if they had to share an IPv4 address with their neighbors. Eventually we'll reach a sharper part of the curve and suddenly: IPv6. Regards, Bill Herrin On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 4:47 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
On 2/16/21 4:18 PM, Fred Baker wrote:
You may find this article interesting: https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-status-of-ipv4-... <https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-status-of-ipv4-address-allocation/>
So aside from Afrinic, this is all being done on the gray market? Wouldn't you expect that price to follow something like an exponential curve as available addresses become more and more scarce and unavailable for essentially any price?
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
Mike
-- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
Any recommendations for legitimate ip brokers? ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jamann=mt.gov@nanog.org> on behalf of Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 5:46 PM To: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: dumb question: are any of the RIR's out of IPv4 addresses? On 2/16/21 4:18 PM, Fred Baker wrote:
You may find this article interesting: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-... <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-... >
So aside from Afrinic, this is all being done on the gray market? Wouldn't you expect that price to follow something like an exponential curve as available addresses become more and more scarce and unavailable for essentially any price? Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
Mike
On 16 Feb 2021, at 11:53 PM, Mann, Jason via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: Any recommendations for legitimate ip brokers? ARIN maintains a list of transfer facilitators - all of these parties have agreed to follow our procedures, but please note that we do not otherwise qualify or validate them in any manner. <https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/transfers/stls/registered_facilitators/> FYI, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers
We can help, of course ;) Mail me off-list for details. Or isn't it off-topic right here? 17.02.21 06:53, Mann, Jason via NANOG пише:
Any recommendations for legitimate ip brokers?
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+jamann=mt.gov@nanog.org> on behalf of Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 16, 2021 5:46 PM *To:* Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: dumb question: are any of the RIR's out of IPv4 addresses?
On 2/16/21 4:18 PM, Fred Baker wrote:
You may find this article interesting: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-... <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-status-of-ipv4-address-allocation/__;!!GaaboA!999i8DMj5mceMG2R6J8wgZ29XjBhQvAJU3QMixqhvjqpQCsdAvcck6BpWKVqMw$>
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.apnic.net/2019/12/13/keep-calm-and-...
So aside from Afrinic, this is all being done on the gray market? Wouldn't you expect that price to follow something like an exponential curve as available addresses become more and more scarce and unavailable for essentially any price?
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
Basically are there places that you can't get allocations? If so, what is happening?
Mike
participants (13)
-
Christopher Morrow -
Elvis Daniel Velea -
Eric Kuhnke -
Fred Baker -
George Michaelson -
Jennifer Sims -
John Curran -
Mann, Jason -
Max Tulyev -
Michael Thomas -
Niels Bakker -
Rubens Kuhl -
William Herrin