Trying to Make Sense of the Comcast/Level 3 Dispute
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Interesting article: http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/sjs/trying-make-sense-comcast-level-3 - -dispute Considering the fact that I received an e-mail survey request today from Netflix (I am a subscriber) which, among other questions, asked if I ever did streaming of their services on the Internet, Wii, Live TV, etc. (I don't), as well as asked if I am a Comcast subscriber (I am), among other last-mile service provider options -- I just found the timing of all of this very "interesting". FYI, - - ferg -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.5.3 (Build 5003) wj8DBQFM9zEnq1pz9mNUZTMRAkZjAJ9hbP54xMUAuXKBM8XFbPlE1in2+gCgiW5m K5IDw1Qo+Su6L0ySdb+kbLE= =H1rb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawgster(at)gmail.com ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Paul Ferguson <fergdawgster@gmail.com> wrote:
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Interesting article:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/sjs/trying-make-sense-comcast-level-3 - -dispute
Considering the fact that I received an e-mail survey request today from Netflix (I am a subscriber) which, among other questions, asked if I ever did streaming of their services on the Internet, Wii, Live TV, etc. (I don't), as well as asked if I am a Comcast subscriber (I am), among other last-mile service provider options -- I just found the timing of all of this very "interesting".
I suppose this is all just a smoke screen to force one/both sides to upgrade inter-links before the l3/flix cdn contract goes whole hog. A stalling tactic and one to push buttons (political/PR buttons) raising the stakes/pushing timing up on installs... is interesting though. -chris
In a message written on Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 09:40:01PM -0800, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Considering the fact that I received an e-mail survey request today from Netflix (I am a subscriber) which, among other questions, asked if I ever did streaming of their services on the Internet, Wii, Live TV, etc. (I don't), as well as asked if I am a Comcast subscriber (I am), among other last-mile service provider options -- I just found the timing of all of this very "interesting".
Unfortunately Netflix's state of mind if you will is something we can't derive from the routing tables. They might have gone into this hand in hand with Level 3, wanting to make a point to Comcast/The FCC/The Public about something. On the other hand, Level 3 might have told them things were just peachy with Comcast and they could easily handle this traffic and Netflix got sold a pig in a poke. If so, they could be rather unhappy that their new CDN partner is dragging them into this mess before they even turn up. But I have to wonder, why ask if you are on Comcast? It's not hard to identify all of Comcast's IP space from the routing table, and they know the endpoint of every stream they serve. They have perfect data from their servers, why use error prone data from a survey? -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
In a message written on Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 09:40:01PM -0800, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Interesting article:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/sjs/trying-make-sense-comcast-level-3 - -dispute
Here's an excellent summary, complete with some pictures: http://www.voxel.net/blog/2010/12/peering-disputes-comcast-level-3-and-you -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
Agreed there, very nice. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of "Learn RouterOS" -----Original Message----- From: Leo Bicknell [mailto:bicknell@ufp.org] Sent: December 03, 2010 8:50 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Trying to Make Sense of the Comcast/Level 3 Dispute In a message written on Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 09:40:01PM -0800, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Interesting article:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/sjs/trying-make-sense-comcast-leve l-3
- -dispute
Here's an excellent summary, complete with some pictures: http://www.voxel.net/blog/2010/12/peering-disputes-comcast-level-3-and-y ou -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
In a message written on Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 09:40:01PM -0800, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Interesting article:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/sjs/trying-make-sense-comcast-level-3 - -dispute
Here's an excellent summary, complete with some pictures:
http://www.voxel.net/blog/2010/12/peering-disputes-comcast-level-3-and-you
-- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
Unfortunately, they got at least part of the diagram wrong; Yahoo uses Global Crossing to reach Comcast, not TATA. Matt
my guess is the info for that was pulled off comcast's route server, where only tata is seen BGP routing table entry for 98.137.128.0/19, version 681406320 Paths: (8 available, best #8, table Default-IP-Routing-Table) Not advertised to any peer 6453 10310 36752 36752, (received & used) 68.86.1.43 (metric 72251) from 68.86.80.5 (68.86.1.5) Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 250, valid, internal Community: 7922:43 7922:3050 7922:3120 Originator: 68.86.1.43, Cluster list: 68.86.1.5 6453 10310 36752 36752, (received & used) 68.86.1.40 (metric 78885) from 68.86.80.15 (68.86.1.15) Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 250, valid, internal Community: 7922:40 7922:3050 7922:3120 Originator: 68.86.1.40, Cluster list: 68.86.1.15 6453 10310 36752 36752, (received & used) 68.86.1.41 (metric 85042) from 68.86.80.7 (68.86.1.7) Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 250, valid, internal Community: 7922:41 7922:3050 7922:3120 Originator: 68.86.1.41, Cluster list: 68.86.1.7, 68.86.1.13 6453 10310 36752 36752, (received & used) 68.86.1.44 (metric 101555) from 68.86.80.10 (68.86.1.10) Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 250, valid, internal Community: 7922:44 7922:3050 7922:3120 Originator: 68.86.1.44, Cluster list: 68.86.1.10 6453 10310 36752 36752, (received & used) 68.86.1.42 (metric 70822) from 68.86.80.0 (68.86.1.0) Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 250, valid, internal Community: 7922:42 7922:3050 7922:3120 Originator: 68.86.1.42, Cluster list: 68.86.1.0 6453 10310 36752 36752, (received & used) 68.86.1.41 (metric 85042) from 68.86.80.13 (68.86.1.13) Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 250, valid, internal Community: 7922:41 7922:3050 7922:3120 Originator: 68.86.1.41, Cluster list: 68.86.1.13 6453 10310 36752 36752, (received & used) 68.86.80.11 (metric 92374) from 68.86.80.11 (68.86.1.11) Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 250, valid, internal Community: 7922:11 7922:3050 7922:3120 6453 10310 36752 36752, (received & used) 68.86.1.46 (metric 65585) from 68.86.80.2 (68.86.1.2) Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 250, valid, internal, best Community: 7922:46 7922:3050 7922:3120 Originator: 68.86.1.46, Cluster list: 68.86.1.2 On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Matthew Petach <mpetach@netflight.com>wrote:
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
In a message written on Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 09:40:01PM -0800, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Interesting article:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/sjs/trying-make-sense-comcast-level-3
- -dispute
Here's an excellent summary, complete with some pictures:
http://www.voxel.net/blog/2010/12/peering-disputes-comcast-level-3-and-you
-- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
Unfortunately, they got at least part of the diagram wrong; Yahoo uses Global Crossing to reach Comcast, not TATA.
Matt
On Dec 3, 2010, at 1:34 PM, christian koch wrote:
my guess is the info for that was pulled off comcast's route server, where only tata is seen
Asymmetric routing on the Internet? What will they think of next?! That said, does changing the name of the middle network change the substance of the post? -- TTFN, patrick P.S. And does Y! have a route-server to figure this stuff out? :)
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Matthew Petach <mpetach@netflight.com>wrote:
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
In a message written on Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 09:40:01PM -0800, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Interesting article:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/sjs/trying-make-sense-comcast-level-3
- -dispute
Here's an excellent summary, complete with some pictures:
http://www.voxel.net/blog/2010/12/peering-disputes-comcast-level-3-and-you
-- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
Unfortunately, they got at least part of the diagram wrong; Yahoo uses Global Crossing to reach Comcast, not TATA.
Matt
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore <patrick@ianai.net> wrote:
On Dec 3, 2010, at 1:34 PM, christian koch wrote:
my guess is the info for that was pulled off comcast's route server, where only tata is seen
Asymmetric routing on the Internet? What will they think of next?!
That said, does changing the name of the middle network change the substance of the post?
Nope--just pointing out that Yahoo content is not stuck on the congested pathway in the direction in which the congestion exists, at least until Comcast decides to start sending sufficient outbound traffic to cause congestion in both directions. Just didn't like the portrayal of our connectivity as being stuck behind a traffic jam of other data, potentially causing Comcast users to subconsciously avoid going to Yahoo sites for fear they might be somehow affected by that line of cars.
-- TTFN, patrick
P.S. And does Y! have a route-server to figure this stuff out? :)
Not one that the security team would allow me to open up to outside queries, I'm afraid. :( Matt
participants (7)
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christian koch -
Christopher Morrow -
Dennis Burgess -
Leo Bicknell -
Matthew Petach -
Patrick W. Gilmore -
Paul Ferguson