Re: NTP versions in production use?
Resending... On 7/10/15 12:29 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
I'm trying to build a list of the versions of NTP that are in active use on various active pieces of network gear.
I know that Cisco, for example, uses NTP in around 10 different product lines, but I don't know what versions of NTP are in current use.
I'm also curious about the answers here for Juniper and other network gear providers. That would include routers, switches, and other types of gear.
If you have information about this I'd appreciate your letting me know.
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
Juniper MX5 root@YYY.XXXXXX.net> show ntp status status=06a4 leap_none, sync_ntp, 10 events, event_peer/strat_chg, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Thu Mar 13 08:29:55 UTC 2014 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS12.3R6.6", leap=00, stratum=3, precision=-18, rootdelay=90.375, rootdispersion=20.620, peer=29748, refid=208.75.88.4, reftime=d94c5338.ac6565a8 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:45:12.673, poll=7, clock=d94c55ad.b634aa52 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:55:41.711, state=4, offset=-0.428, frequency=2.394, jitter=3.505, stability=0.004 Juniper EX4200: root@YYYY> show ntp status status=c011 sync_alarm, sync_unspec, 1 event, event_restart, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Sat Jan 5 18:41:34 UTC 2013 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS11.4R6.6", leap=11, stratum=16, precision=-18, rootdelay=0.000, rootdispersion=656381.655, peer=0, refid=INIT, reftime=00000000.00000000 Thu, Feb 7 2036 1:28:16.000, poll=4, clock=d94c5a40.fa58e5f0 Sat, Jul 11 2015 23:15:12.977, state=0, offset=0.000, frequency=0.000, jitter=0.004, stability=0.000 On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:
Resending...
On 7/10/15 12:29 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
I'm trying to build a list of the versions of NTP that are in active use on various active pieces of network gear.
I know that Cisco, for example, uses NTP in around 10 different product lines, but I don't know what versions of NTP are in current use.
I'm also curious about the answers here for Juniper and other network gear providers. That would include routers, switches, and other types of gear.
If you have information about this I'd appreciate your letting me know.
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
Dovid, Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient versions of NTP. https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline 4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in the codebase since then. H On 7/11/15 7:58 PM, Dovid Bender wrote:
Juniper MX5 root@YYY.XXXXXX.net> show ntp status status=06a4 leap_none, sync_ntp, 10 events, event_peer/strat_chg, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Thu Mar 13 08:29:55 UTC 2014 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS12.3R6.6", leap=00, stratum=3, precision=-18, rootdelay=90.375, rootdispersion=20.620, peer=29748, refid=208.75.88.4, reftime=d94c5338.ac6565a8 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:45:12.673, poll=7, clock=d94c55ad.b634aa52 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:55:41.711, state=4, offset=-0.428, frequency=2.394, jitter=3.505, stability=0.004
Juniper EX4200: root@YYYY> show ntp status status=c011 sync_alarm, sync_unspec, 1 event, event_restart, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Sat Jan 5 18:41:34 UTC 2013 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS11.4R6.6", leap=11, stratum=16, precision=-18, rootdelay=0.000, rootdispersion=656381.655, peer=0, refid=INIT, reftime=00000000.00000000 Thu, Feb 7 2036 1:28:16.000, poll=4, clock=d94c5a40.fa58e5f0 Sat, Jul 11 2015 23:15:12.977, state=0, offset=0.000, frequency=0.000, jitter=0.004, stability=0.000
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:
Resending...
On 7/10/15 12:29 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
I'm trying to build a list of the versions of NTP that are in active use on various active pieces of network gear.
I know that Cisco, for example, uses NTP in around 10 different product lines, but I don't know what versions of NTP are in current use.
I'm also curious about the answers here for Juniper and other network gear providers. That would include routers, switches, and other types of gear.
If you have information about this I'd appreciate your letting me know.
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
You would need to ask Juniper that.... On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 11:17 PM, Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:
Dovid,
Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient versions of NTP.
https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline
4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in the codebase since then.
H
On 7/11/15 7:58 PM, Dovid Bender wrote:
Juniper MX5 root@YYY.XXXXXX.net> show ntp status status=06a4 leap_none, sync_ntp, 10 events, event_peer/strat_chg, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Thu Mar 13 08:29:55 UTC 2014 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS12.3R6.6", leap=00, stratum=3, precision=-18, rootdelay=90.375, rootdispersion=20.620, peer=29748, refid=208.75.88.4, reftime=d94c5338.ac6565a8 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:45:12.673, poll=7, clock=d94c55ad.b634aa52 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:55:41.711, state=4, offset=-0.428, frequency=2.394, jitter=3.505, stability=0.004
Juniper EX4200: root@YYYY> show ntp status status=c011 sync_alarm, sync_unspec, 1 event, event_restart, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Sat Jan 5 18:41:34 UTC 2013 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS11.4R6.6", leap=11, stratum=16, precision=-18, rootdelay=0.000, rootdispersion=656381.655, peer=0, refid=INIT, reftime=00000000.00000000 Thu, Feb 7 2036 1:28:16.000, poll=4, clock=d94c5a40.fa58e5f0 Sat, Jul 11 2015 23:15:12.977, state=0, offset=0.000, frequency=0.000, jitter=0.004, stability=0.000
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:
Resending...
On 7/10/15 12:29 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
I'm trying to build a list of the versions of NTP that are in active use on various active pieces of network gear.
I know that Cisco, for example, uses NTP in around 10 different product lines, but I don't know what versions of NTP are in current use.
I'm also curious about the answers here for Juniper and other network gear providers. That would include routers, switches, and other types of gear.
If you have information about this I'd appreciate your letting me know.
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
We will. But we're going to be asking them for support for network time. Folks like you are probably paying them for support. They'll listen more to people like you. This goes to *all* vendors who embed NTP in their products, we're not interested in in picking on anybody here. H -- On 7/11/15 8:21 PM, Dovid Bender wrote:
You would need to ask Juniper that....
On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 11:17 PM, Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:
Dovid,
Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient versions of NTP.
https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline
4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in the codebase since then.
H
On 7/11/15 7:58 PM, Dovid Bender wrote:
Juniper MX5 root@YYY.XXXXXX.net> show ntp status status=06a4 leap_none, sync_ntp, 10 events, event_peer/strat_chg, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Thu Mar 13 08:29:55 UTC 2014 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS12.3R6.6", leap=00, stratum=3, precision=-18, rootdelay=90.375, rootdispersion=20.620, peer=29748, refid=208.75.88.4, reftime=d94c5338.ac6565a8 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:45:12.673, poll=7, clock=d94c55ad.b634aa52 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:55:41.711, state=4, offset=-0.428, frequency=2.394, jitter=3.505, stability=0.004
Juniper EX4200: root@YYYY> show ntp status status=c011 sync_alarm, sync_unspec, 1 event, event_restart, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Sat Jan 5 18:41:34 UTC 2013 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS11.4R6.6", leap=11, stratum=16, precision=-18, rootdelay=0.000, rootdispersion=656381.655, peer=0, refid=INIT, reftime=00000000.00000000 Thu, Feb 7 2036 1:28:16.000, poll=4, clock=d94c5a40.fa58e5f0 Sat, Jul 11 2015 23:15:12.977, state=0, offset=0.000, frequency=0.000, jitter=0.004, stability=0.000
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:
Resending...
On 7/10/15 12:29 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
I'm trying to build a list of the versions of NTP that are in active use on various active pieces of network gear.
I know that Cisco, for example, uses NTP in around 10 different product lines, but I don't know what versions of NTP are in current use.
I'm also curious about the answers here for Juniper and other network gear providers. That would include routers, switches, and other types of gear.
If you have information about this I'd appreciate your letting me know.
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
Harlan Stenn writes:
We will. But we're going to be asking them for support for network time. Folks like you are probably paying them for support. They'll listen more to people like you.
This goes to *all* vendors who embed NTP in their products, we're not interested in in picking on anybody here.
Network Time doesn't *only* need support from network equipment providers. If accurate time is important to you, or you and your customers, please pitch in. I've probably strayed offtopic here. Sorry about that. But help us anyway. H --
-- On 7/11/15 8:21 PM, Dovid Bender wrote:
You would need to ask Juniper that....
On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 11:17 PM, Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:
Dovid,
Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient versions of NTP.
https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline
4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in the codebase since then.
H
On 7/11/15 7:58 PM, Dovid Bender wrote:
Juniper MX5 root@YYY.XXXXXX.net> show ntp status status=06a4 leap_none, sync_ntp, 10 events, event_peer/strat_chg, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Thu Mar 13 08:29:55 UTC 2014 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS12.3R6.6", leap=00, stratum=3, precision=-18, rootdelay=90.375, rootdispersion=20.620, peer=29748, refid=208.75.88.4, reftime=d94c5338.ac6565a8 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:45:12.673, poll=7, clock=d94c55ad.b634aa52 Sat, Jul 11 2015 22:55:41.711, state=4, offset=-0.428, frequency=2.394, jitter=3.505, stability=0.004
Juniper EX4200: root@YYYY> show ntp status status=c011 sync_alarm, sync_unspec, 1 event, event_restart, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Sat Jan 5 18:41:34 UTC 2013 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS11.4R6.6", leap=11, stratum=16, precision=-18, rootdelay=0.000, rootdispersion=656381.655, peer=0, refid=INIT, reftime=00000000.00000000 Thu, Feb 7 2036 1:28:16.000, poll=4, clock=d94c5a40.fa58e5f0 Sat, Jul 11 2015 23:15:12.977, state=0, offset=0.000, frequency=0.000, jitter=0.004, stability=0.000
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:
Resending...
On 7/10/15 12:29 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
I'm trying to build a list of the versions of NTP that are in active use on various active pieces of network gear.
I know that Cisco, for example, uses NTP in around 10 different product lines, but I don't know what versions of NTP are in current use.
I'm also curious about the answers here for Juniper and other network gear providers. That would include routers, switches, and other types of gear.
If you have information about this I'd appreciate your letting me know.
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
-- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
On 12/07/15 13:17, Harlan Stenn wrote:
Dovid,
Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient versions of NTP.
https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline
4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in the codebase since then.
Juniper have recently (15.1, still not out for all platforms) rebased JunOS on a slightly less ancient FreeBSD release, and nothing I have in my lab has it released yet, and I can't be bothered to go spelunking in the install image for what version of NTP it's running.
* Julien Goodwin
Juniper have recently (15.1, still not out for all platforms) rebased JunOS on a slightly less ancient FreeBSD release, and nothing I have in my lab has it released yet, and I can't be bothered to go spelunking in the install image for what version of NTP it's running.
FWIW: root@lab-ex4200:RE:1% ntpq -c rv status=06f4 leap_none, sync_ntp, 15 events, event_peer/strat_chg, version="ntpd 4.2.0-a Fri May 29 07:45:35 2015 (1)", processor="powerpc", system="JUNOS15.1R1.8", leap=00, stratum=3, precision=-18, rootdelay=8.087, rootdispersion=52.195, peer=32436, refid=87.238.33.2, reftime=d94c85fa.7b317b80 Sun, Jul 12 2015 8:21:46.481, poll=10, clock=d94c8669.9b6e8a47 Sun, Jul 12 2015 8:23:37.607, state=4, offset=-1.039, frequency=-32.350, jitter=0.445, stability=0.040 It seems they've pulled the 15.1 release though, at least I can't download it anymore. Tore
On 07/11/2015 08:17 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient versions of NTP.
https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline
4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in the codebase since then.
I used to do a lot of work with embedded software years ago in my career. What I remember is that when a piece of code was ported to the embedded product, the only time the port was repeated was when there was a revenue-impacting issue. So if there was something in those 3,000 issues that would adversely affect the containing product to the point where it would be reflected in sales, I wouldn't hold your breath. When the porting process is trivial, then it can be a different story. But remember that there is a Q/A impact on incorporating the new code from upstream, so it's the same deal. If you would like the vendors to update, you need to make a strong case for doing so.
:Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient :versions of NTP. I suggest you get accustomed to being stunned. :https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline : :4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in :the codebase since then. 4.2.0 may have been EOL'd in 2006, but it was still shipping as the default in FreeBSD until 2009. Out of those 3000 issues, only a tiny fraction are security-related that would apply to JunOS. I expect that they backport security and other fixes as necessary, until some bigger engineering effort and|or headache calls for a forklift/mass upgrade of things. -- Michael J. O'Connor mjo@dojo.mi.org =--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--= "Fire me, boy!" -The Human Bullet
I’m currently running a scan of the internet and querying NTP versions. I’ll publish the results of it on Github and mail them in here :) On 12/07/2015 15:15, "NANOG on behalf of Mike O'Connor" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org on behalf of mjo@dojo.mi.org> wrote:
:Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient :versions of NTP.
I suggest you get accustomed to being stunned.
:https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline : :4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in :the codebase since then.
4.2.0 may have been EOL'd in 2006, but it was still shipping as the default in FreeBSD until 2009.
Out of those 3000 issues, only a tiny fraction are security-related that would apply to JunOS. I expect that they backport security and other fixes as necessary, until some bigger engineering effort and|or headache calls for a forklift/mass upgrade of things.
-- Michael J. O'Connor mjo@dojo.mi.org =--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--= "Fire me, boy!" -The Human Bullet
Are you using Nmap or masscan? Also I'd be interested in what switches and settings you are using. On 12 Jul 2015 16:26, "Alistair Mackenzie" <magicsata@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m currently running a scan of the internet and querying NTP versions.
I’ll publish the results of it on Github and mail them in here :)
On 12/07/2015 15:15, "NANOG on behalf of Mike O'Connor" < nanog-bounces@nanog.org on behalf of mjo@dojo.mi.org> wrote:
:Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient :versions of NTP.
I suggest you get accustomed to being stunned.
:https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline : :4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in :the codebase since then.
4.2.0 may have been EOL'd in 2006, but it was still shipping as the default in FreeBSD until 2009.
Out of those 3000 issues, only a tiny fraction are security-related that would apply to JunOS. I expect that they backport security and other fixes as necessary, until some bigger engineering effort and|or headache calls for a forklift/mass upgrade of things.
-- Michael J. O'Connor mjo@dojo.mi.org
=--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--=
"Fire me, boy!" -The Human Bullet
On Sunday, July 12, 2015, Alistair Mackenzie <magicsata@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m currently running a scan of the internet and querying NTP versions.
I’ll publish the results of it on Github and mail them in here :)
Please don't. Please see http://openntpproject.org/
On 12/07/2015 15:15, "NANOG on behalf of Mike O'Connor" < nanog-bounces@nanog.org <javascript:;> on behalf of mjo@dojo.mi.org <javascript:;>> wrote:
:Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient :versions of NTP.
I suggest you get accustomed to being stunned.
:https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline : :4.2.0 was EOL'd in June of 2006, and we've fixed about 3,000 issues in :the codebase since then.
4.2.0 may have been EOL'd in 2006, but it was still shipping as the default in FreeBSD until 2009.
Out of those 3000 issues, only a tiny fraction are security-related that would apply to JunOS. I expect that they backport security and other fixes as necessary, until some bigger engineering effort and|or headache calls for a forklift/mass upgrade of things.
-- Michael J. O'Connor mjo@dojo.mi.org <javascript:;>
=--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--=
"Fire me, boy!" -The Human Bullet
On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 11:16:14AM -0700, Ca By wrote:
On Sunday, July 12, 2015, Alistair Mackenzie <magicsata@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m currently running a scan of the internet and querying NTP versions.
I’ll publish the results of it on Github and mail them in here :)
Please don't.
Please see http://openntpproject.org/
A polite ask would get you data specifically about ntpd versions. Note that some korean CPEs had their firmware all built in KST: 38645 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Mon Mar 30 16:45:15 KST 2015 (12) 26508 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Tue Jan 6 15:54:39 KST 2015 (40) 23111 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Thu Apr 16 23:42:15 KST 2015 (33) 16715 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Mon Sep 3 11:11:56 KST 2012 (413) 15033 ntpd 4.2.4p6@1.1549 Tue Jan 5 17:30:09 UTC 2010 (1) 14307 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Tue Dec 30 11:06:17 KST 2014 (26) 14247 ntpd 4.1.0 Thu May 22 08:58:17 KST 2003 (26) 12104 ntpd 4.2.4p5-a (1) 10802 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Mon Mar 30 16:30:53 KST 2015 (9) 8236 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Tue Apr 12 02:17:55 KST 2011 (471) 8130 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Wed Aug 8 14:37:46 KST 2012 (361) 5599 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Fri Nov 19 10:37:40 KST 2010 (414) 4591 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Thu Sep 20 21:30:08 KST 2012 (1) 3822 ntpd 4.1.0 Fri Sep 3 21:16:13 KST 2010 (1) 3642 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Mon Apr 13 16:30:44 KST 2015 (12) 3557 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Fri Feb 7 13:59:35 KST 2014 (3) 3411 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Sat Mar 20 23:54:04 KST 2004 (71) 3287 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Tue Jan 26 16:44:08 KST 2010 (1) 3280 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Wed Apr 8 13:32:51 KST 2015 (25) 2892 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Wed Oct 20 16:50:38 KST 2010 (1) 2698 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Mon Jul 21 19:56:22 KST 2014 (32) 2590 ntpd 4.2.6p2@1.2194 Tue Jul 17 09:08:49 UTC 2012 (1) 2415 ntpd 4.2.6p2@1.2194 Mon Dec 22 02:40:05 UTC 2014 (1) 2393 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Mon Sep 3 10:59:53 KST 2012 (412) 2357 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Wed Nov 12 17:35:24 KST 2014 (5) 2303 ntpd 4.1.0 Fri Nov 26 19:21:49 KST 2010 (28) 2299 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Sat May 16 01:59:28 CST 2009 (1) 2072 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Thu Nov 21 15:27:20 KST 2013 (1) 1943 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Thu Dec 15 16:09:31 KST 2011 (1) 1846 ntpd 4.2.6p5@1.2349 Mon Dec 2 09:52:06 UTC 2013 (37) 1827 ntpd 4.1.1a@1.791 Wed Feb 5 17:54:41 PST 2003 (42) 1782 ntpd 4.2.6p5@1.2349 Tue Jul 22 08:19:36 UTC 2014 (1) 1773 ntpd 4.2.6p5@1.2349-o Wed Apr 1 08:17:37 UTC 2015 (1) 1772 ntpd 4.2.4p4@1.1520 Tue Feb 19 10:06:54 UTC 2008 (1) 1760 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Wed Jan 4 19:51:13 KST 2012 (564) 1657 ntpd 4.2.6p5@1.2349-o Mon Mar 16 14:53:03 UTC 2015 (1) 1632 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Fri Jan 25 16:54:43 KST 2013 (411) 1531 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Thu Oct 7 21:30:18 KST 2010 (19) 1482 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Mon Jan 28 18:56:40 KST 2013 (2) 1448 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Mon Dec 9 17:42:42 KST 2013 (12) 1415 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Fri Jan 25 16:35:27 KST 2013 (411) 1337 ntpd 4.2.0-r Thu Aug 11 12:41:19 CDT 2005 (1) 1317 ntpd 4.2.7p440@1.2483-o Fri Aug 15 12:50:53 UTC 2014 (1) 1281 ntpd 4.2.8p2@1.3265-o Thu Apr 9 14:13:40 UTC 2015 (1) 1263 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Tue Nov 26 10:21:44 KST 2013 (7) 1236 ntpd 4.2.6p5@1.2349 Fri May 16 02:16:26 UTC 2014 (1) 1193 ntpd 4.1.0-a Wed Oct 9 12:19:42 GMT 2002 (1) 1103 ntpd 4.1.1@1.786 Fri Apr 10 11:45:44 KST 2015 (1) 1062 ntpd 4.2.5p113@1.1720-o Wed Aug 27 15:20:28 UTC 2014 (1) 1055 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Fri May 7 14:34:37 KST 2010 (416) 1051 ntpd 4.2.6p2@1.2194 Fri Dec 27 03:51:03 UTC 2013 (2) 1038 ntpd 4.2.6p3@1.2290 Wed May 25 02:36:25 UTC 2011 (1) 1018 ntpd 4.1.1c-rc1@1.836 Wed Nov 16 17:52:53 KST 2011 (120) -- snip -- trimmed past 1k -- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 10:15:20 -0400, "Mike O'Connor" said:
:Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient :versions of NTP.
I suggest you get accustomed to being stunned.
He obviously didn't see my post a few weeks back about hosts that were looking for an NTP server that went out of service back in 1999. And yes, some were still using NTP v1 and v2. There's a *lot* of stuff on very serious autopilot out there....
On 7/12/15 11:31 AM, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 10:15:20 -0400, "Mike O'Connor" said:
:Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient :versions of NTP.
I suggest you get accustomed to being stunned.
He obviously didn't see my post a few weeks back about hosts that were looking for an NTP server that went out of service back in 1999. And yes, some were still using NTP v1 and v2.
There's a *lot* of stuff on very serious autopilot out there....
I did see it, and I was assuming it was a "local" configuration problem. This is "death by 1,000 cuts" and when I wrote my recent query I was looking for the big offenders. To me this situation goes hand-in-hand with the problems getting bcp38 deployed, and what Dan Geer talked about in his keynote speech at Black Hat 2014: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT-TGvYOBpI I get that some folks have real problems with their build systems and it's hard to upgrade software tools in that environment. I know it's can be expensive to solve that problem. I'd love to find a way to have the "versioned tool chain" stuff that I implemented at Cisco/Andiamo be generally available, but I haven't found that many folks willing to support it yet and I just don't have the spare cycles to add that to my "do it for free" pile. I do know that if more companies were to use this sort of tool that the argument of "we can't patch older releases because we don't have those tools anymore and the Q/A process becomes horribly expensive" goes away. And that also means that it's far less expensive and therefore far more profitable to offer maintenance support on older software releases for much longer periods of time. But I must be missing something here as well, as I was never able to make headway with this idea when I was at Cisco. -- Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 03:23:58PM -0700, Harlan Stenn wrote:
On 7/12/15 11:31 AM, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 10:15:20 -0400, "Mike O'Connor" said:
:Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient :versions of NTP.
I suggest you get accustomed to being stunned.
He obviously didn't see my post a few weeks back about hosts that were looking for an NTP server that went out of service back in 1999. And yes, some were still using NTP v1 and v2.
There's a *lot* of stuff on very serious autopilot out there....
I did see it, and I was assuming it was a "local" configuration problem. This is "death by 1,000 cuts" and when I wrote my recent query I was looking for the big offenders.
To me this situation goes hand-in-hand with the problems getting bcp38 deployed, and what Dan Geer talked about in his keynote speech at Black Hat 2014:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT-TGvYOBpI
I get that some folks have real problems with their build systems and it's hard to upgrade software tools in that environment. I know it's can be expensive to solve that problem. I'd love to find a way to have the "versioned tool chain" stuff that I implemented at Cisco/Andiamo be generally available, but I haven't found that many folks willing to support it yet and I just don't have the spare cycles to add that to my "do it for free" pile.
I do know that if more companies were to use this sort of tool that the argument of "we can't patch older releases because we don't have those tools anymore and the Q/A process becomes horribly expensive" goes away. And that also means that it's far less expensive and therefore far more profitable to offer maintenance support on older software releases for much longer periods of time. But I must be missing something here as well, as I was never able to make headway with this idea when I was at Cisco.
The problem is people like Cisco don't make it easy to configure these protocols at all. You can only insert an IP address and their configuration system is all fire-and-forget additive causing config bloat. What's the harm in putting in a few more NTP lines if it just works. The NTP software does a lot of very esoteric things that don't matter much to those outside the super-time-geek space. This isn't blame, but it makes it harder for the upstream systems to injest them. Take JunOS which is effectively a type of FreeBSD port. The FreeBSD devs have very strict ideas of what should be part of the core OS, quality and ideas that prevent injesting something that isn't marked "full release". The release-early and release-often mantra comes to mind for me. If you do that, it's much easier for downstream people to package your latest upstream package. They take the idea of what you consider stable seriously and many developers i know don't like issuing a release because they know it does or might have some bugs. Sometimes that means rapid iterations which is much better than having stale software for N years where N is quite large like it is here. - Jared -- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
On Sat, 11 Jul 2015, Harlan Stenn wrote:
I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient versions of NTP.
This is not surprising at all, nor should you be surprised to find xntp3 still in use because of the even older software on decrepit but still functional hardware. I.e., in addition to the issues Stephen Satchell mentioned as to why vendors might not be keeping up, users may have similar needs keeping them from using the latest releases of device software. And then there are those that never even check for updates so long as their device keeps them happy. /mark
ntpd - NTP daemon program - Ver. 4.2.6 Colins-iMac:~ colinj$ uname -a Darwin Colins-iMac.home 15.0.0 Darwin Kernel Version 15.0.0: Sun Jun 28 00:25:56 PDT 2015; root:xnu-3247.1.36~7/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64 (10.11 osx el capitan) -bash-4.2$ uname -a Linux oraclelinux 3.8.13-68.1.2.el7uek.x86_64 #2 SMP Mon Mar 30 11:45:57 PDT 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux ntpd - NTP daemon program - Ver. 4.2.6p5 2015:07:11-01:05:57 cloudsophosvm ntpd[17219]: ntpd 4.2.6p5@1.2349 Tue Feb 4 13:03:59 UTC 2014 (1) Sophos UTM 9.313-3 Colin
Hi Harlan, On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 13:30:15 -0700 Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:
I know that Cisco, for example, uses NTP in around 10 different product lines, but I don't know what versions of NTP are in current use.
At least with the equipment with which I'm familiar they weren't using the reference implementation and as such, they didn't implement all the bells and whistles. So monlist and all the mode 6/7 stuff for instance isn't something you get with typical cisco gear, nor any ntp specific version number. Their implementation may be "older" in that sense, but perhaps safer, because it is "simpler" too. I had once heard the ntp code in ios was based on ntpd v3 (the code and protocol) and was relatively robust, done by a very capable coder. An authoritative voice on what the current state is would be helpful of course. Nonetheless, there are lots of cisco devices with ntp on them. Presumably most of them are using roughly the same code.
I'm also curious about the answers here for Juniper and other network gear providers. That would include routers, switches, and other types of gear.
JUNOS roughly follows FreeBSD and the reference implementation, but they have lagged behind a bit of what is generally available of course. You can easily find ntp running on JUNOS5 if that is any indication of what is in the wild. Jared probably has as good as any source of this data, but we have some too that might go back a little further. If you need anything more specific than the above, let me know. John
participants (15)
-
Alistair Mackenzie -
Bacon Zombie -
Ca By -
Colin Johnston -
Dovid Bender -
Harlan Stenn -
Harlan Stenn -
Jared Mauch -
John Kristoff -
Julien Goodwin -
Mark Milhollan -
Mike O'Connor -
Stephen Satchell -
Tore Anderson -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu