Hello boys and girls. The time is now 0800 EST and of course, whois is still screwed. [rs.internic.net] Registrant: EnterZone.Net (ENTERZONE2-DOM) 604 East Rich Street Columbus, OH 43215 US Domain Name: ENTERZONE.NET Record last updated on 09-May-97. Database last updated on 13-Mar-99 23:57:32 EST. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.5 NS2.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.6 The InterNIC Registration Services database contains ONLY non-military and non-US Government Domains and contacts. Other associated whois servers: American Registry for Internet Numbers - whois.arin.net European IP Address Allocations - whois.ripe.net Asia Pacific IP Address Allocations - whois.apnic.net US Military - whois.nic.mil US Government - whois.nic.gov Lets see... Where do we begin... 1) They lost the data from our update.
From: Domain Registration Role Account <domreg@internic.net> Message-Id: <199903121048.FAA03704@mts2.internic.net> Subject: Re: [NIC-990310.2ebf] ENTERZONE.NET Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:48:48 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: domreg@internic.net To: John.Fraizer@EnterZone.Net X-Mailer: fastmail [version 2.4 PL24alpha4] X-UIDL: e1f57853ffcc7b0ad65532566d6484df
The updates, of the domain name shown below, have been completed. If you wish to make changes to this domain in the future, please submit a Domain Name Registration Agreement to:
HOSTMASTER@INTERNIC.NET
Please write "modify" on line 0a.
All requests completed before 19:00 Eastern time will be included in the root server update. The root zone files are updated 7 days a week. These changes should be visible in our Whois database the following day.
If you wish to make changes to the domain record, contact record, host record or the registrant name, please use the following URL to complete the proper form:
http://rs.internic.net/help/templates.html
Network Solutions is not an agent or representative of your Internet Service Provider, web-hosting company, or other organizations with which you have contracted for Internet-related services. This change to your domain name record does not amend, modify, or otherwise affect the terms and conditions of any agreement(s) you may have with third parties.
Network Solutions, Inc. E-mail: hostmaster@internic.net Phone: 703-742-4777(Monday-Friday 7:00am to 9:00pm Eastern Time) Fax: 703-742-9552 ================================================================
EnterZone.Net (ENTERZONE2-DOM) 6227 Headley Road Gahanna, OH 43230 US
Domain Name: ENTERZONE.NET
Administrative Contact: Fraizer, John (JF1998) John.Fraizer@ENTERZONE.NET +1 614 316-2708 Technical Contact: Network Operations Center (NOC179-ORG) noc@ENTERZONE.NET +1 614 316-2708 Billing Contact: Network Operations Center (NOC179-ORG) noc@ENTERZONE.NET +1 614 316-2708
Record last updated on 12-Mar-99. Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.5 NS2.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.6
=========================================================================
Why do any of even take the time to keep our records up to date when they just go lose them, corrupt them, ignore them? 2) They took the POC information out of the display both from rwhois and telnet. Just how are we supposed to find the POCs for a domain now? 3) They are causing service effecting outages with NO NOTICE to US, their customers. This is getting real %^&*# old, real %^*# fast. I wish they would start spending my $35/yr per domain on clue. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ML.ORG is gone. Check out http://www.EZ-IP.Net - It's *FREE* ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your *FREE* Parked Domain account at http://www.EZ-Hosting.Com ------------------------------------------------------------------ John Fraizer | __ _ | The System Administrator | / / (_)__ __ ____ __ | The choice mailto:John.Fraizer@EnterZone.Net | / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / | of a GNU http://www.EnterZone.Net/ | /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation PGP Key fingerprint = 7DB6 1CA2 DAA6 43DA 3AAF 44CD 258C 3D7E B425 81A8
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, John Fraizer wrote:
Hello boys and girls. The time is now 0800 EST and of course, whois is still screwed.
examples snipped.....
Why do any of even take the time to keep our records up to date when they just go lose them, corrupt them, ignore them?
2) They took the POC information out of the display both from rwhois and telnet. Just how are we supposed to find the POCs for a domain now?
3) They are causing service effecting outages with NO NOTICE to US, their customers.
This is getting real %^&*# old, real %^*# fast.
I wish they would start spending my $35/yr per domain on clue.
Try using "whois dump domain.name". You might have to do it on each of the objects you want to look up the info for though, and others seem to be obfuiscated....
------------------------------------------------------------------ ML.ORG is gone. Check out http://www.EZ-IP.Net - It's *FREE* ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your *FREE* Parked Domain account at http://www.EZ-Hosting.Com ------------------------------------------------------------------ John Fraizer | __ _ | The System Administrator | / / (_)__ __ ____ __ | The choice mailto:John.Fraizer@EnterZone.Net | / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / | of a GNU http://www.EnterZone.Net/ | /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation PGP Key fingerprint = 7DB6 1CA2 DAA6 43DA 3AAF 44CD 258C 3D7E B425 81A8
-- /js
On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 08:10:22AM -0600, Jeff Steinhilber wrote:
This is getting real %^&*# old, real %^*# fast.
I wish they would start spending my $35/yr per domain on clue.
Try using "whois dump domain.name". You might have to do it on each of the objects you want to look up the info for though, and others seem to be obfuiscated....
Still can't find some domains I registered last week which were in Whois as of Friday.
------------------------------------------------------------------ ML.ORG is gone. Check out http://www.EZ-IP.Net - It's *FREE* ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your *FREE* Parked Domain account at http://www.EZ-Hosting.Com ------------------------------------------------------------------ John Fraizer | __ _ | The System Administrator | / / (_)__ __ ____ __ | The choice mailto:John.Fraizer@EnterZone.Net | / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / | of a GNU http://www.EnterZone.Net/ | /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation PGP Key fingerprint = 7DB6 1CA2 DAA6 43DA 3AAF 44CD 258C 3D7E B425 81A8
-- /js
-- Steve Sobol sjsobol@nacs.net (AKA support@nacs.net and abuse@nacs.net) "The world is headed for mutiny/When all we want is unity" --Creed, "One"
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, John Fraizer wrote:
NS1.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.5 NS2.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.6
Hmm... same subnet... RFC 1912 has this to say: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1912.txt You are required to have at least two nameservers for every domain, though more is preferred. Have secondaries outside your network. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You could try trading secondary services with someone else or you could join the ISP/C in order to get use of their three secondary servers. http://www.ispc.org/benefits/ -- Michael Dillon - E-mail: michael@memra.com Check the website for my Internet World articles - http://www.memra.com
At 09:59 AM 3/14/99 -0800, Michael Dillon wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, John Fraizer wrote:
NS1.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.5 NS2.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.6
Hmm... same subnet...
Michael, you should know better than that. I do not see a subnet mask on these IP addresses. There is nothing stopping a Network Operator from making these /32s and putting them on different networks. Of course, a traceroute confirms that they are at least going through the same router on the last hop, so they are likely on the same subnet. But your assumption was still a bit premature. That said, I completely agree that using something like the ISPC is a good idea. You get secondaries all over the country on different ASes, not just different subnets in your own AS.
Michael Dillon - E-mail: michael@memra.com
TTFN, patrick I Am Not An Isp - www.ianai.net ISPF, The Forum for ISPs by ISPs, <http://www.ispf.com> "Think of it as evolution in action." - Niven & Pournelle
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, I Am Not An Isp wrote:
NS1.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.5 NS2.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.6
Hmm... same subnet...
Michael, you should know better than that. I do not see a subnet mask on these IP addresses. There is nothing stopping a Network Operator from making these /32s and putting them on different networks.
Nothing except community consensus that it is a *BAD* thing to pollute the global routing table with lots of long prefixes. -- Michael Dillon - E-mail: michael@memra.com Check the website for my Internet World articles - http://www.memra.com
At 11:54 AM 3/14/99 -0800, Michael Dillon wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, I Am Not An Isp wrote:
NS1.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.5 NS2.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.6
Hmm... same subnet...
Michael, you should know better than that. I do not see a subnet mask on these IP addresses. There is nothing stopping a Network Operator from making these /32s and putting them on different networks.
Nothing except community consensus that it is a *BAD* thing to pollute the global routing table with lots of long prefixes.
I am capable of putting /32s in my network an announcing the aggregate. We did this at Priori, Michael. Justin programmed each loopback as a /32 out of the same /24, so we had x.x.x.1 on the west coast and x.x.x.2 on the east coast, but still only announced the /18.
Michael Dillon - E-mail: michael@memra.com
TTFN, patrick I Am Not An Isp - www.ianai.net ISPF, The Forum for ISPs by ISPs, <http://www.ispf.com> "Think of it as evolution in action." - Niven & Pournelle
NS1.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.5 NS2.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.6 Hmm... same subnet... Michael, you should know better than that. I do not see a subnet mask on these IP addresses. There is nothing stopping a Network Operator from making these /32s and putting them on different networks. Nothing except community consensus that it is a *BAD* thing to pollute the global routing table with lots of long prefixes. I am capable of putting /32s in my network an announcing the aggregate. We did this at Priori, Michael. Justin programmed each loopback as a /32 out of the same /24, so we had x.x.x.1 on the west coast and x.x.x.2 on the east coast, but still only announced the /18.
traceroute to 209.41.244.5 (209.41.244.5), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 gw.44IETF.MR.Net (209.32.95.254) 14.248 ms 5.702 ms 5.449 ms 2 mrnet-IETF-2.UPP.MR.Net (137.192.170.93) 14.255 ms 12.399 ms 7.584 ms 3 core1.UPP.MR.Net (204.220.31.254) 13.795 ms 8.132 ms 8.211 ms 4 aads.fnsi.net (198.32.130.64) 25.371 ms 25.189 ms 26.577 ms 5 core1-hssi101.Columbus.fnsi.net (209.115.127.225) 35.778 ms 30.226 ms 33.013 ms 6 ENTERZONE.Columbus.fnsi.net (209.115.127.22) 31.121 ms 30.784 ms 30.580 ms 7 NS1.ENTERZONE.NET (209.41.244.5) 34.295 ms 30.942 ms 30.624 ms roam.psg.com:/usr/home/randy> traceroute 209.41.244.6 traceroute to 209.41.244.6 (209.41.244.6), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 gw.44IETF.MR.Net (209.32.95.254) 9.571 ms 5.451 ms 5.396 ms 2 mrnet-IETF-2.UPP.MR.Net (137.192.170.93) 9.071 ms 7.631 ms 7.817 ms 3 core1.UPP.MR.Net (204.220.31.254) 9.045 ms 8.343 ms 8.340 ms 4 aads.fnsi.net (198.32.130.64) 24.862 ms 23.892 ms 26.196 ms 5 core1-hssi101.Columbus.fnsi.net (209.115.127.225) 31.046 ms 29.786 ms 31.106 ms 6 ENTERZONE.Columbus.fnsi.net (209.115.127.22) 30.355 ms 31.590 ms 32.866 ms 7 NS2.ENTERZONE.NET (209.41.244.6) 32.493 ms 30.425 ms 31.418 ms
At 12:30 PM 3/14/99 -0800, Randy Bush wrote: [SNIP - Randy's traceroutes] Thanx Randy, but if you had actually read the thread instead of trying to pounce on a possible error (just like Michael), you would have seen in my first post that I stated a traceroute shows both IPs have the same last router hop and are likely on the same subnet. Add to that the fact that there are load balancing techniques which use duplicated IP addrs in different geographical regions and you once again have no proof - just an implication. Before anyone else pounces on this, YES, I believe it is likely that these two machines (if it is two machines) are sitting next to one another and the original poster should get more diverse DNS. The point of my post is that people who just look at IP addresses (or a single traceroute ;) and make sweeping generalizations might find their assumptions disproven. Sorry about being pedantic, but I've dealt with one too many users who just assume stuff based on tools like traceroute without understanding the underlying technology (asymmetry, load balancing, etc.). I really think anyone on this list should *not* have to be educated the way lusers do. TTFN, patrick I Am Not An Isp - www.ianai.net ISPF, The Forum for ISPs by ISPs, <http://www.ispf.com> "Think of it as evolution in action." - Niven & Pournelle
On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 12:43:20PM -0800, I Am Not An Isp wrote:
Before anyone else pounces on this, YES, I believe it is likely that these two machines (if it is two machines) are sitting next to one another and the original poster should get more diverse DNS.
What makes you assume they're even different machines... Cheers, -- jr 'ifconfig dummy0' a -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Buy copies of The New Hackers Dictionary. The Suncoast Freenet Give them to all your friends. Tampa Bay, Florida http://www.ccil.org/jargon/ +1 813 790 7592
At 12:43 PM 3/14/99 -0800, I Am Not An Isp wrote:
first post that I stated a traceroute shows both IPs have the same last router hop and are likely on the same subnet.
Correct. Both machines actually do live in close proximity to each other.
Add to that the fact that there are load balancing techniques which use duplicated IP addrs in different geographical regions and you once again have no proof - just an implication.
Not that fancy. Not yet. If the internic would process get with it and process our update, it would show two additional nameservers on the domain however. (On different networks, which are in different geographical regions.)
Before anyone else pounces on this, YES, I believe it is likely that these two machines (if it is two machines) are sitting next to one another and the original poster should get more diverse DNS. The point of my post is
See previous sentence. [root@Overkill /]# /sbin/route Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface NS1.ENTERZONE.N * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 eth0:0 209.41.244.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 218 eth0 199.201.138.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 16 eth1 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 1288 lo default Border-Core0-Fa 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 431211 eth0 [root@Plaything:/]# /sbin/route Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface NS2.ENTERZONE.N * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 eth0:0 209.41.244.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 869 eth0 199.201.138.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 4 eth1 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 1111 lo default Border-Core0-Fa 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 262383 eth0
that people who just look at IP addresses (or a single traceroute ;) and make sweeping generalizations might find their assumptions disproven.
In this case, they were correct. I suppose they would have felt better if we had something like: NS1.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.244.5 NS2.ENTERZONE.NET 209.41.222.129 NS3.ENTERZONE.NET 216.28.26.5 NS4.ENTERZONE.NET 209.115.110.130 NS5.ENTERZONE.NET 199.201.138.5 Sure does look more impressive, doesn't it. Sheesh people. The last time I checked, I wasn't providing primary of secondary name service for any of your domains. We've never been dark outside of scheduled maintenance, not even as a result of TIFF or BIFF. I feel very lucky in that statement. I suppose it is a testament to the guys at FNSI.
Sorry about being pedantic, but I've dealt with one too many users who just assume stuff based on tools like traceroute without understanding the underlying technology (asymmetry, load balancing, etc.). I really think anyone on this list should *not* have to be educated the way lusers do.
I was told by a wise individual that the only use for assumption is to make an ASS out of U and ME. From what I've observed, there are a few individuals on the list, myself included at times, that need no help in this category. Leave the assumptions, snide remarks about another operator having less than sufficient clue, etc out of it. Since we're talking about my nameservers and I've told you everything there is to know about them, there should be no more need for discussion of this matter on the list. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ML.ORG is gone. Check out http://www.EZ-IP.Net - It's *FREE* ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your *FREE* Parked Domain account at http://www.EZ-Hosting.Com ------------------------------------------------------------------ John Fraizer | __ _ | The System Administrator | / / (_)__ __ ____ __ | The choice mailto:John.Fraizer@EnterZone.Net | / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / | of a GNU http://www.EnterZone.Net/ | /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation PGP Key fingerprint = 7DB6 1CA2 DAA6 43DA 3AAF 44CD 258C 3D7E B425 81A8
On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 11:59:00PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:
I was told by a wise individual that the only use for assumption is to make an ASS out of U and ME.
You'd class Tony Randall as a wise individual? ObOps: has anyone heard anything new and official on the latest whois screwup? Mark? David? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Buy copies of The New Hackers Dictionary. The Suncoast Freenet Give them to all your friends. Tampa Bay, Florida http://www.ccil.org/jargon/ +1 813 790 7592
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, I Am Not An Isp wrote:
Nothing except community consensus that it is a *BAD* thing to pollute the global routing table with lots of long prefixes.
I am capable of putting /32s in my network an announcing the aggregate. We did this at Priori, Michael. Justin programmed each loopback as a /32 out of the same /24, so we had x.x.x.1 on the west coast and x.x.x.2 on the east coast, but still only announced the /18.
Most of the people on this list do not operate a national backbone. This aggregation technique is just fine if you really do have geographical diversity of nameserver location inside your AS. I'm not sure why anyone would go to the trouble of making it appear that their nameservers are in the same room when they are not. Priori had nameservers at PAIX and at Erols in Fairfax County, VA. But if a network does not have geographical diversity inside their AS then all of this /32 aggregation magic is for naught. If national backbones look like this: NS0.VERIO.NET 205.238.52.46 NS1.VERIO.NET 204.91.99.140 NS1.SPRINTLINK.NET 204.117.214.10 NS2.SPRINTLINK.NET 199.2.252.9 NS3.SPRINTLINK.NET 204.97.212.10 NS.CW.NET 204.70.128.1 NS2.CW.NET 204.70.57.242 NS3.CW.NET 204.70.25.234 NS4.CW.NET 204.70.49.234 then why wouldn't all ISPs look like this? NS1.EXAMPLE.COM 192.0.2.17 NS2.EXAMPLE.COM 204.97.212.10 NS3.EXAMPLE.COM 205.91.99.140 instead of the minimalist slapdash technique NS1.EXAMPLE.COM 192.0.2.44 NS2.EXAMPLE.COM 192.0.2.45 It's not hard to find an ISP in another state or another country to trade secondary DNS. And when the backhoe cuts a major fiber link in your area used by all three of your upstream providers, the world will know that you still exist. If you use the minimalist slapdash technique the world will think that you've gone out of business. -- Michael Dillon - E-mail: michael@memra.com Check the website for my Internet World articles - http://www.memra.com
At 1:20 PM -0800 3/14/1999, Randy Bush wrote:
But if a network does not have geographical diversity inside their AS then all of this /32 aggregation magic is for naught. If national backbones look like this:
NS0.VERIO.NET 205.238.52.46 NS1.VERIO.NET 204.91.99.140
clue:
ns1.verio.net is hosted by digex. we read rfc2182.
randy ^^^^ Randy,
Didn't you co-write rfc2182? :) ^^^^^ Network Working Group R. Elz Request for Comments: 2182 University of Melbourne BCP: 16 R. Bush Category: Best Current Practice RGnet, Inc. S. Bradner Harvard University M. Patton Consultant July 1997 -David -- David Brouda VERIO
On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 05:02:36PM -0500, David Brouda wrote:
At 1:20 PM -0800 3/14/1999, Randy Bush wrote:
But if a network does not have geographical diversity inside their AS then all of this /32 aggregation magic is for naught. If national backbones look like this:
NS0.VERIO.NET 205.238.52.46 NS1.VERIO.NET 204.91.99.140
clue:
ns1.verio.net is hosted by digex. we read rfc2182.
randy ^^^^ Randy,
Didn't you co-write rfc2182? :) ^^^^^
When I type, i read what i type. When I write, I read what i write. The "WE" is the key part, meaning their hostmasters, and dns maintainers, etc.. - jared
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, David Brouda wrote:
ns1.verio.net is hosted by digex. we read rfc2182.
Didn't you co-write rfc2182? :) ^^^^^
If someone writes down a good idea once, are they forever banned from mentioning it again? Or are you concerned that Randy might get rich from the royalties on RFC 2182? ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2182.txt ;-) -- Michael Dillon - E-mail: michael@memra.com Check the website for my Internet World articles - http://www.memra.com
On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 02:46:59PM -0800, Michael Dillon wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, David Brouda wrote:
Didn't you co-write rfc2182? :) ^^^^^ If someone writes down a good idea once, are they forever banned from mentioning it again?
and again, and again, and again. Those of us that work with Randy (Dave's one of us) have gotten to hear plenty about 1982, 2181, and 2182. You'd think he's proud of them. ;-)
Or are you concerned that Randy might get rich from the royalties on RFC 2182? ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2182.txt
we want a refund! :-) party on, Sam (ObNetOps: ethernet auto-negotion doesn't) -- Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. -- Henry Spencer
<yawn> kids we ready to move on yet... On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Michael Dillon wrote: <snip - snippity - snip - snippity - snip - snip-cheri...> -- I am nothing if not net-Q! - ras@poppa.thick.net
Michael Dillon <michael@memra.com> writes:
Michael, you should know better than that. I do not see a subnet mask on these IP addresses. There is nothing stopping a Network Operator from making these /32s and putting them on different networks.
Nothing except community consensus that it is a *BAD* thing to pollute the global routing table with lots of long prefixes.
Um, the point is that they're advertised *internally* as /32, and *externally* as part of their larger aggregate. There's no need to announce the addresses as /32s externally to have this scheme work. We're using this at my place of employ already, and it works quite nicely.
participants (13)
-
David Brouda -
I Am Not An Isp -
Jared Mauch -
Jay R. Ashworth -
Jeff Steinhilber -
John Fraizer -
Michael Dillon -
Michael Handler -
Randy Bush -
Randy Bush -
Rich Sena -
Sam Thomas -
Steven J. Sobol