You know what, go and fuck yourself you little whore.. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions. Best Regards, Shazad eServers - driving the "e" into your business. -----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com] Sent: 13 October 2003 16:12 To: Shazad - eServers Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond
From: "Shazad - eServers" <shazad@eservers.biz> To: "'Randy Bush'" <randy@psg.com> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> ... Thank you very much for your feedback, I really appreciate all the comments I am receiving. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions.
thanks for publishing my private message, you dumb fuck randy
My apologies, There was no need for him to go around calling me a "dumb f***". I apologies, I didn't realise I had posted his message onto the nanog mailing list.. Sorry. Regards, Shazad -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Shazad - eServers Sent: 13 October 2003 16:13 To: 'Randy Bush' Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond -----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com] Sent: 13 October 2003 16:12 To: Shazad - eServers Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond
From: "Shazad - eServers" <shazad@eservers.biz> To: "'Randy Bush'" <randy@psg.com> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> ... Thank you very much for your feedback, I really appreciate all the comments I am receiving. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions.
thanks for publishing my private message, you dumb fuck randy
At 16:39 13/10/2003, you wrote:
M apologies, There was no need for him to go around calling me a "dumb f***". I apologies, I didn't realise I had posted his message onto the nanog mailing list..
Marketroids using public mailing lists for sales leads should learn list etiquette and reply etiquette first. HTH HAND jx -- Joel Rowbottom :: joel@fotopic.net :: Head Guy, Fotopic.Net Over a million photos online :: Users in 137 countries Get your own free photo gallery online at http://www.fotopic.net
Joel, If you think this was a sales lead, then you are wrong. I admit, I have not really used mailing list before and accidentally CC nanog on the first correspondence, but for him to email me back calling "xxxx xxx" (you already know) was not on. I replied back to his email and DID NOT CC NANOG. So how it got onto the NANOG list is beyond me or a SERIOUS BUG. I have verified by checking the email headers that it was not sent to NANOG. On that note, like I said before I apologise to all those that have had to read it.. Regards, Shazad -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Joel Rowbottom Sent: 13 October 2003 16:46 To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond At 16:39 13/10/2003, you wrote:
M apologies, There was no need for him to go around calling me a "dumb f***". I apologies, I didn't realise I had posted his message onto the nanog mailing list..
Marketroids using public mailing lists for sales leads should learn list etiquette and reply etiquette first. HTH HAND jx -- Joel Rowbottom :: joel@fotopic.net :: Head Guy, Fotopic.Net Over a million photos online :: Users in 137 countries Get your own free photo gallery online at http://www.fotopic.net
Don't mean to get off-topic... but speaking the Extremes.. Has anyone here had luck with doing some BGP stuff with Sumit 48i? Thanks, -hc -- Haesu C. TowardEX Technologies, Inc. Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com Cell: (978)394-2867 | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170 Fax: (978)263-0033 | POC: HAESU-ARIN
Subject: Re: Extreme BlackDiamond Date: Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 12:19:20PM -0400 Quoting Haesu (haesu@towardex.com):
Don't mean to get off-topic... but speaking the Extremes.. Has anyone here had luck with doing some BGP stuff with Sumit 48i?
Not beyond lab setups, but yes, they speak BGP. We are about to move KTHNOC to a new datacenter shortly, at which we will speak BGP to the world using an Extreme switch. -- Måns Nilsson Systems Specialist +46 70 681 7204 KTHNOC MN1334-RIPE I have seen these EGG EXTENDERS in my Supermarket ...
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Mans Nilsson wrote:
Subject: Re: Extreme BlackDiamond Date: Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 12:19:20PM -0400 Quoting Haesu (haesu@towardex.com):
Don't mean to get off-topic... but speaking the Extremes.. Has anyone here had luck with doing some BGP stuff with Sumit 48i?
Not beyond lab setups, but yes, they speak BGP. We are about to move KTHNOC to a new datacenter shortly, at which we will speak BGP to the world using an Extreme switch.
I'd strongly recommend keeping away from "BGP" Extremes "speak". Especially if you want to it to work. We've seen a lot of problems, like failures to advertise default routes, getting MP-BGP to work at all, etc. I think the MP-BGP has been unsolved for, what, at least a year now. Just don't use extremes as routers, and you will be much, much happier. It _might_ work in the dumbest, unicast-only setups, but I have a lot of doubts about anything more complex than that. We made the mistake of one Extreme here as a router, and that has paid us back with sweat and tears. We'll be switching it to a Juniper freeing up soon, and we'll be dancing with joy afterwards. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Pekka Savola wrote:
Just don't use extremes as routers, and you will be much, much happier. It _might_ work in the dumbest, unicast-only setups, but I have a lot of doubts about anything more complex than that.
I think you're being too pessimistic. For instance, some of the largest LAN parties had Extreme boxen as core equipment (Dreamhack for instance, 4500 computers) and their ISP (where I work) had Extreme routers for a larger part of its national core/distribution network. We run BGP as well. It works for what we need it for. We use network statements and talk BGP with customers. With EW7.1.0 they solved most of our issues, we're now going ISIS as well. As with all equipment, try everything you want to do and see if it does it well. If you're doing a large network buildout you might save a LOT of money buy bying intermediate stuff (like Extreme) instead of coing the hard-core way (Juniper/GSR). Yes, GSRs are better at routing but they lack L2 capability and it's a very expensive (and lousy unless you have Engine3 cards) GE plattform. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
BTW: There are Foundry and Extreme related mailing lists in the same location as a few other vendor lists. http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/foundry-nsp http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/extreme-nsp http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo for all puck lists, including other router/switch vendors. enjoy, - jared On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 08:01:50PM +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Pekka Savola wrote:
Just don't use extremes as routers, and you will be much, much happier. It _might_ work in the dumbest, unicast-only setups, but I have a lot of doubts about anything more complex than that.
I think you're being too pessimistic. For instance, some of the largest LAN parties had Extreme boxen as core equipment (Dreamhack for instance, 4500 computers) and their ISP (where I work) had Extreme routers for a larger part of its national core/distribution network.
We run BGP as well. It works for what we need it for. We use network statements and talk BGP with customers.
With EW7.1.0 they solved most of our issues, we're now going ISIS as well.
As with all equipment, try everything you want to do and see if it does it well. If you're doing a large network buildout you might save a LOT of money buy bying intermediate stuff (like Extreme) instead of coing the hard-core way (Juniper/GSR).
Yes, GSRs are better at routing but they lack L2 capability and it's a very expensive (and lousy unless you have Engine3 cards) GE plattform.
-- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Haesu wrote:
Don't mean to get off-topic... but speaking the Extremes.. Has anyone here had luck with doing some BGP stuff with Sumit 48i?
Yes. The only thing I miss in their implementation is the equivalent of "neighbor <ip> default-originate". -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
If the shoe fits... -alex On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Shazad - eServers wrote:
My apologies, There was no need for him to go around calling me a "dumb f***". I apologies, I didn't realise I had posted his message onto the nanog mailing list..
Sorry.
Regards, Shazad
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Shazad - eServers Sent: 13 October 2003 16:13 To: 'Randy Bush' Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond
-----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com] Sent: 13 October 2003 16:12 To: Shazad - eServers Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond
From: "Shazad - eServers" <shazad@eservers.biz> To: "'Randy Bush'" <randy@psg.com> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> ... Thank you very much for your feedback, I really appreciate all the comments I am receiving. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions.
thanks for publishing my private message, you dumb fuck
randy
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 04:39:09PM +0100, Shazad - eServers wrote:
My apologies, There was no need for him to go around calling me a "dumb f***". I apologies, I didn't realise I had posted his message onto the nanog mailing list..
If the shoe fits... Is it just me, or could nanog really benefit from being moderated, or at least nanog-post being access controlled? God knows why I've kept skimming it even after the majority of actual clueful network operators have long since unsubscribed, but even this is beginning to stretch the limits of my love for a good Jerry Springer fight. Or should we all just start chanting: Susan! Susan! Susan! ? -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
Is it just me, or could nanog really benefit from being moderated, or at least nanog-post being access controlled? God knows why I've kept skimming it even after the majority of actual clueful network operators have long
Are you volunteering to be the moderator? Moderation is alot of work, and/or would slow the list down to a crawl. Perhaps limiting who can post would be somewhat useful though. Perhaps only people actually operating "real networks", where "real networks" are somehow defined by their size or their participation in BGP.
From here, shazad@eservers.biz looks like a relatively small colo customer. What's he looking at big switches for? More importantly, does anyone care?
As long as I'm ranting, what about all the recent "could someone with clue from Network X please contact me privately?" posts? If I was that person at Network X, I'd want to know what your issue was before I bothered contacting you (very few of these posts have included any problem description)...both so that I could look at the problem (if there was one) before contacting you, so that I could have the appropriate person contact you (if I'm not it), and so I could not waste the time if you're trying to contact me about an issue (or non-issue) you have no business wasting my time with. network:Class-Name:network network:ID:332.209.51.128.0/19 network:Auth-Area:209.51.128.0/19 network:Network-Name:eservers-00037-01 network:IP-Network:209.51.159.224/29 network:Organization;I:eServers dot biz network:Tech-Contact;I:engineering@gnax.net network:Admin-Contact;I:664.dv2.net network:Created:20020906 network:Updated:20020906 network:Updated-By:engineering@gnax.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis *jlewis@lewis.org*| I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
From here, shazad@eservers.biz looks like a relatively small colo customer.
Yes we are relatively small, we colocate around 1500 servers in our own suite.
What's he looking at big switches for? Quite frankly I can look for what I want, we are expanding into Europe and came here for some advice.. Do we have any problems here?
More importantly, does anyone care? Does anybody care? Dammm GOOOD JOB that you are a small minority in this world.
If you are so smart, GO and CHECK the HEADERS of that POST. Was it me? NO IT WASENT. You are too smart for yourself. I am out of this... My last reply. Best Regards, Shazad -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of jlewis@lewis.org Sent: 13 October 2003 17:29 To: Richard A Steenbergen Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Extreme BlackDiamond On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
Is it just me, or could nanog really benefit from being moderated, or at least nanog-post being access controlled? God knows why I've kept skimming it even after the majority of actual clueful network operators have long
Are you volunteering to be the moderator? Moderation is alot of work, and/or would slow the list down to a crawl. Perhaps limiting who can post would be somewhat useful though. Perhaps only people actually operating "real networks", where "real networks" are somehow defined by their size or their participation in BGP.
From here, shazad@eservers.biz looks like a relatively small colo customer. What's he looking at big switches for? More importantly, does anyone care?
As long as I'm ranting, what about all the recent "could someone with clue from Network X please contact me privately?" posts? If I was that person at Network X, I'd want to know what your issue was before I bothered contacting you (very few of these posts have included any problem description)...both so that I could look at the problem (if there was one) before contacting you, so that I could have the appropriate person contact you (if I'm not it), and so I could not waste the time if you're trying to contact me about an issue (or non-issue) you have no business wasting my time with. network:Class-Name:network network:ID:332.209.51.128.0/19 network:Auth-Area:209.51.128.0/19 network:Network-Name:eservers-00037-01 network:IP-Network:209.51.159.224/29 network:Organization;I:eServers dot biz network:Tech-Contact;I:engineering@gnax.net network:Admin-Contact;I:664.dv2.net network:Created:20020906 network:Updated:20020906 network:Updated-By:engineering@gnax.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis *jlewis@lewis.org*| I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 05:52:59PM +0100, Shazad - eServers wrote:
If you are so smart, GO and CHECK the HEADERS of that POST. Was it me? NO IT WASENT.
No offense, but: Received: by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) id 2B7F25DE96; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: nanog@merit.edu Received: from velocity.eservers.biz (velocity.eservers.biz [209.51.159.226]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EB485DE89 for <nanog@merit.edu>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32650 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2003 14:21:29 -0000 Received: from london.eservers.biz (HELO eserverspbnb) (62.3.241.102) by velocity.eservers.biz with SMTP; 13 Oct 2003 14:21:29 -0000 Reply-To: <shazad@eservers.biz> From: "Shazad - eServers" <shazad@eservers.biz> To: "'Fisher, Shawn'" <SFisher@Bresnan.com> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:58:55 +0100 Received: by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) id 5CE615DE0F; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: nanog@merit.edu Received: from velocity.eservers.biz (velocity.eservers.biz [209.51.159.226]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id CBA335DE1D for <nanog@merit.edu>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32752 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2003 14:26:34 -0000 Received: from london.eservers.biz (HELO eserverspbnb) (62.3.241.102) by velocity.eservers.biz with SMTP; 13 Oct 2003 14:26:34 -0000 Reply-To: <shazad@eservers.biz> From: "Shazad - eServers" <shazad@eservers.biz> To: "'Randy Bush'" <randy@psg.com> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:04:00 +0100 Looks like the exact same path to me. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew S. Hallacy Sent: October 13, 2003 1:21 PM To: Shazad - eServers; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Extreme BlackDiamond
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 05:52:59PM +0100, Shazad - eServers wrote:
If you are so smart, GO and CHECK the HEADERS of that POST.
Was it me?
NO IT WASENT.
No offense, but:
[Snip]
Looks like the exact same path to me.
You got the wrong post, I think... Here are the headers I'm seeing: Return-Path: <owner-nanog@merit.edu> Received: from trapdoor.merit.edu (postfix@trapdoor.merit.edu [198.108.1.26]) by manganese.bos.dyndns.org (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9DFQclx048945; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:26:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-nanog@merit.edu) Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) id 13A6191327; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: nanog-outgoing@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix, from userid 56) id 4F8D7912A4; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: nanog@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: from segue.merit.edu (segue.merit.edu [198.108.1.41]) by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 957A9912D2 for <nanog@trapdoor.merit.edu>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) id 83AD05DDA1; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: nanog@nanog.org Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62EAB5DD98 for <nanog@nanog.org>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=roam.psg.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1A94Q6-0007IZ-Ov for nanog@nanog.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:15:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=roam.psg.com) by roam.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1A94Q5-000Bct-K6 for nanog@nanog.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:15:37 +0200 Organization: eServers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcORlxEhs697B4/kSySyoICO+plTjQABXZYg In-Reply-To: <E1A94MW-000BcH-IH@roam.psg.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-Id: <E1A94OK-00078H-8j@psg.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) From: "Shazad - eServers" <shazad@eservers.biz> To: "'Randy Bush'" <randy@psg.com> Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:13:25 +0100 Sender: owner-nanog@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog-outgoing@merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Spam-Status: -3.3 () BAYES_10,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,IN_REP_TO,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT ,X_LOOP X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.36 As much as I hate to say it (and I'll probably regret getting into this discussion), it does look like Randy hit the bounce option in pine or whatever and sent Shazad's private reply straight to NANOG. Vivien -- Vivien M. vivienm@dyndns.org Assistant System Administrator Dynamic DNS Network Services http://www.dyndns.org/
I agree with you, Bouncing private messages onto the forum with a purpose of making "me" look bad is really SAD. I did it accidentally BUT quoted him, he literally bounced my message as If I had sent it to NANOG. Check your headers and you will find out, I never sent that message to NANOG. Maybe you guys should stop jumping to the gun (I have received like 130 private messages now), and read the headers to see I didn't send that message to NANOG. All I can do is apologies for not being in the wrong. Peace out.. Best Regards, Shazad eServers - driving the "e" into your business. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Richard A Steenbergen Sent: 13 October 2003 16:49 To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Extreme BlackDiamond On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 04:39:09PM +0100, Shazad - eServers wrote:
My apologies, There was no need for him to go around calling me a "dumb f***". I apologies, I didn't realise I had posted his message onto the nanog mailing list..
If the shoe fits... Is it just me, or could nanog really benefit from being moderated, or at least nanog-post being access controlled? God knows why I've kept skimming it even after the majority of actual clueful network operators have long since unsubscribed, but even this is beginning to stretch the limits of my love for a good Jerry Springer fight. Or should we all just start chanting: Susan! Susan! Susan! ? -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
participants (12)
-
alex＠pilosoft.com -
Haesu -
Jared Mauch -
jlewis＠lewis.org -
Joel Rowbottom -
Mans Nilsson -
Matthew S. Hallacy -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Pekka Savola -
Richard A Steenbergen -
Shazad - eServers -
Vivien M.