"Fiber Week"? -----Original Message----- From: Leslie [mailto:leslie@craigslist.org] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:29 AM To: Christopher Morrow Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre Hunters, backhoes, and ship anchors are all fiber's natural enemies - I'm surprised Discovery Channel hasn't done a special on it! On 9/21/10 6:19 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:

this was presented at the nanog in ... SF I think as well: <http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/abstracts.php?pt=MTU5NSZuYW5vZzQ5&nm=nanog49>

not really news...

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Eugen Leitl<eugen@leitl.org> wrote:

...

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx

Repairers forced to ski in to Oregon back woods.

Google has revealed that aerial fibre links to its data centre in Oregon were "regularly" shot down by hunters, forcing the company to put its cables underground.

The search and advertising giant's network engineering manager Vijay Gill told the AusNOG conference in Sydney last week that people were trying to hit insulators on electricity distribution poles.

The poles also hosted aerially-deployed fibre connected to Google's $US600 million ($A635 million) data centre in the Dalles, a small city on the Columbia River in the US state of Oregon.

"What people do for sport or because they're bored, they try to shoot at the insulators," Gill said.

"I have yet to see them actually hit the insulator, but they regularly shoot down the fibre.

"Every November when hunting season starts invariably we know that the fibre will be shot down, so much so that we are now building an underground path [for it]."

Gill said that on one occasion, a snowstorm and avalanche prevented Google from transporting repairers and gear into the area of the cut.

It usually used a helicopter or a Caterpillar D9 tractor for transport. It improvised by sending three technicians on skis to "repair the fibre that got shot down".

"These guys had to cross country ski for three days," Gill said.

"[One guy] is carrying what is known as a fusion splicing kit on his backpack."

He joked: "These guys had to go in and fix the fibre while facing gunshots

"So [the] internet... [it's] more dangerous than you realise."

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On 9/21/2010 10:52, Holmes,David A wrote:

Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting (ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof vests. This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to actually sever an aerial fiber.

Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators at the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored, with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.

Back in my ISP days it was more common for people to take pot shots at remote equipment cabinets than the cable/fiber itself. Any field enclosure is as easy a target as your average bullet-ridden road sign. Although this was extremely rare; I can only recall one instance where it was the direct cause of an outage. ~Seth

Hi Kevin, That is easy. "Tree Climbing Spurs / Tree Climbing Spikes" A quick Google search found these for sale. http://wesspur.com/spurs/spurs.html :) Sincerely, Mark Kevin Neal wrote:

How are the guys sent out on cross-country skis going to get up to the fiber to repair it? I'm sure that the cable isn't low enough for them to reach it without a ladder, bucket truck, helicopter.... all of which you don't pack in on skis...

-Kevin

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Seth Mattinen <sethm@rollernet.us> wrote:

...

On 9/21/2010 10:52, Holmes,David A wrote:

...

Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting (ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof vests. This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to actually sever an aerial fiber.

Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators at the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored, with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.

Back in my ISP days it was more common for people to take pot shots at remote equipment cabinets than the cable/fiber itself. Any field enclosure is as easy a target as your average bullet-ridden road sign. Although this was extremely rare; I can only recall one instance where it was the direct cause of an outage.

~Seth

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:10:38 MDT, Kevin Neal said:

How are the guys sent out on cross-country skis going to get up to the fiber to repair it? I'm sure that the cable isn't low enough for them to reach it without a ladder, bucket truck, helicopter.... all of which you don't pack in on skis...

Of course it's easily reachable - it's been shot down and is on the ground. If it was still on the pole you wouldn't be out there on skis with a splice kit. :) What I have to wonder about is how often hunter-inflicted damage is intentional and located at the insulator (which makes for a good story) and how often it's a totally accidental stray bullet nicking the cable many yards from the nearest pole (which makes for a poor story). I'd expect that since the fiber is usually hung much closer to the ground, it would get hit a lot more than the power cables higher up. Also, you're less likely to notice a 1mm divot taken out of a (usually thicker and sturdier and essentially single fat conductor) power cable than a 1mm divot out of a 48 pair. (Consider that even today, it is *still* relatively common to visit some CIvil War battlegrounds and find 2 bullets that hit each other in mid-air. Of course, most of those were probably going down a narrow cone pointed at the source of the other bullet, but still, it indicates that with enough hunters and enough bullets, somebody's going to nick that 300 miles of cable hanging just a few yards above the deer....

Instead of a rifle, how about a shotgun? It fires a nice wide spread shot pattern. I think you would be much more likely to do some damage (ie: knock fiber off a pole) with something like that. Here in New Jersey it is illegal to use a rifle to hunt deer, so typically you will find hunters using a bow/arrow or Shotgun and you will see a lot of road signs (or other abandon junk) that has been victim of a shotgun blast. ~Dave -----Original Message----- From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:sethm@rollernet.us] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 2:03 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre On 9/21/2010 10:52, Holmes,David A wrote:

Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting (ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof vests. This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to actually sever an aerial fiber.

Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators at the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored, with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.

Back in my ISP days it was more common for people to take pot shots at remote equipment cabinets than the cable/fiber itself. Any field enclosure is as easy a target as your average bullet-ridden road sign. Although this was extremely rare; I can only recall one instance where it was the direct cause of an outage. ~Seth

On 9/21/10 2:10 PM, Michael Painter wrote:

David DiGiacomo wrote:

...

Instead of a rifle, how about a shotgun? It fires a nice wide spread shot pattern. I think you would be much more likely to do some damage (ie: knock fiber off a pole) with something like that. Here in New Jersey it is illegal to use a rifle to hunt deer, so typically you will find hunters using a bow/arrow or Shotgun and you will see a lot of road signs (or other abandon junk) that has been victim of a shotgun blast.

you don't hunt deer with buckshot... the shotgun consideration is due to the range, and the expectation is that your target is under 100 meters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug

...

~Dave

Birds like to sit on wires and assholes like to shoot them. 50 years ago I carried around the .22 slug I dug out of the lead-sheathed cable while troubleshooting the outer marker for McClellan AFB in the middle of a rainy night.

--Michael

On 9/21/2010 2:53 PM, Patrick Giagnocavo wrote:

On 9/21/2010 6:04 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote:

...

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx

1. Deer tend to hang out in little clearings while eating. Little clearings like the right of way clearing 25 or 50 feet on each side of an electricity pylon.

Deer hang out in a lot of places that I wouldn't shoot them.

2. Deer are easier to shoot when their silhouette is seen at or near the top of a ridge, especially if they are in a clearing as well.

This is why most states require hunter safety courses, which among other things points out that not only should you be able to identify your target, but you should have good visibility behind your target. Bullets pass through animals (or miss), and continue to travel. Silhouette on a ridge shootings is how people get shot accidentally.

Combine #1 and #2, it is logical that even without "bubbas" the deer/fiber coincidence level would be high.

Any true hunter combining #1 and #2 should have his license permanently revoked. Why not just shoot deer in headlights or on roads, or in populated areas with people and houses behind them? (sarcasm) That being said, there are plenty of people that just shoot things; inanimate objects or animals (often without a license). The article wasn't meant to be, but is insulting. Incidents involving guns, cars, ATVs, etc, etc aren't too uncommon, though the damage for us is usually less than a single wildfire (which melts the peds for the ground cable and destroys the poles and cable for the aerial). Heck, we had a semi riding the back roads (possibly to avoid highway patrol) snag an aerial crossing the road. It was witnessed by the local gas station attendant. he dragged the cabled for 1000 feet or so, ripping down poles. Stopped, unhooked the cable from the truck, and drove off. Jack