Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
Our neighborhood lost phone service when the pedestal at the end of the road was annihilated by a flail mower....a WEEK AGO. The repair - orange plastic bag over the entrails of the pedestal. Yay Verizon - I finally understand why I send them so much money - stylish orange bags! On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Eric Wieling <EWieling@nyigc.com> wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
-- Glen Wiley "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
If I didn't see the loops of electrical tape holding the whole works together I'd say that was a squirrel nest. The two aerial runs that appear to be using each other to turn a corner (right above the plastic-and-electrical-tape mess in the top picture) is an especially nice and creative touch. I sincerely hope the smaller of the two aerials is not a lashing wire. jm"well *there's* your problem"s
Justin M. Streiner wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
If I didn't see the loops of electrical tape holding the whole works together I'd say that was a squirrel nest.
The two aerial runs that appear to be using each other to turn a corner (right above the plastic-and-electrical-tape mess in the top picture) is an especially nice and creative touch. I sincerely hope the smaller of the two aerials is not a lashing wire.
jm"well *there's* your problem"s
Hey looks totally professional to me. After all, black tape is the network engineer's equivalent of duck tape, and, as we all know, duck tape holds the universe together! -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
Quality Union work! -----Original Message----- From: Miles Fidelman [mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:29 PM Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags Justin M. Streiner wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
If I didn't see the loops of electrical tape holding the whole works together I'd say that was a squirrel nest.
The two aerial runs that appear to be using each other to turn a corner (right above the plastic-and-electrical-tape mess in the top picture) is an especially nice and creative touch. I sincerely hope the smaller of the two aerials is not a lashing wire.
jm"well *there's* your problem"s
Hey looks totally professional to me. After all, black tape is the network engineer's equivalent of duck tape, and, as we all know, duck tape holds the universe together! -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
On 8/20/12 4:15 PM, R. Benjamin Kessler wrote:
Quality Union work!
Actually, probably *not* union. And that's the problem! Remember, Verizon has been "laying off" a lot of "old hands" and making them become "independent contractors" -- so that it can hire non-union under-paid workers. A quick search shows that this has been going on for years: 2001: http://news.cnet.com/Verizon-to-lay-off-10,000-workers/2110-1033_3-252215.ht... 2012: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/06/04/494469/verizon-layoff-ceo-pay/ "Verizon To Lay Off 1,700 Workers After Paying CEO $22 Million Last Year" "In 2011, the company’s shareholders saw an 18.8 percent increase in the value of their returns. Workers, however, have not shared in those gains. Verizon eliminated 26,000 jobs over a two-year period in 2008 and 2009 — including 16,000 jobs in 2009 alone — and laid off roughly 13,000 more in 2010."
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
Shredded garbage bag(s) and pink bubble wrap...and some kind of tape. As if that wasn't scary enough, WTF is going on below that on the pole? It looks like some kind of cross connect box, but it's inside out and exploded...or maybe just missing a cover and someone pulled all the cross connects out to trace or make room to work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-) On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible! On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net> wrote:
What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-)
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Joel Esler wrote:
Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible!
Agreed, but Verizon and whoever happens to be on that pole are pretty unlikely to do that unless pushed. The NY Public Service Commission might find the state of what's on that pole interesting, particularly with supporting documentation (trouble history, pole number/location, etc). jms
On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net> wrote:
What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-)
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
Unfortunately, the lines are being resold by a CLEC. My understanding is the PUC/PSC doesn't take complaints from CLECs and, since the customer is customer of the CLEC, any complaints which are filed go against the CLEC, not Verizon. -----Original Message----- From: Justin M. Streiner [mailto:streiner@cluebyfour.org] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:41 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Joel Esler wrote:
Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible!
Agreed, but Verizon and whoever happens to be on that pole are pretty unlikely to do that unless pushed. The NY Public Service Commission might find the state of what's on that pole interesting, particularly with supporting documentation (trouble history, pole number/location, etc). jms
On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net> wrote:
What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-)
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
Maybe you can hope for a wind storm to take down the pole or someone to crash into it, then they'll surely have to fix it. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Eric Wieling [mailto:EWieling@nyigc.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:57 PM To: Justin M. Streiner; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags Unfortunately, the lines are being resold by a CLEC. My understanding is the PUC/PSC doesn't take complaints from CLECs and, since the customer is customer of the CLEC, any complaints which are filed go against the CLEC, not Verizon. -----Original Message----- From: Justin M. Streiner [mailto:streiner@cluebyfour.org] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:41 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Joel Esler wrote:
Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible!
Agreed, but Verizon and whoever happens to be on that pole are pretty unlikely to do that unless pushed. The NY Public Service Commission might find the state of what's on that pole interesting, particularly with supporting documentation (trouble history, pole number/location, etc). jms
On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net> wrote:
What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-)
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung?
Maybe it just needs a heavier garbage bag.
That's horrible!
We had a pedestal around here that was covered, I want to say for years, though it might have been just a year or two, with a work tent. If you have never seen one: http://store.mohawkltd.com/Pelsue-FTTH-Installer-Tent-Shelter/P3072_868/ I particularly love "years of service in the field". I'm guessing they don't mean *continuous* service. By the time it was eventually cleared out, it had collapsed and was somewhat ripped, etc. Totally unrelated: Some of the local DSL copper becomes really unreliable in spring and when it rains. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
On 20 August 2012 20:41, Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net> wrote:
We had a pedestal around here that was covered, I want to say for years, though it might have been just a year or two, with a work tent. If you have never seen one:
http://store.mohawkltd.com/Pelsue-FTTH-Installer-Tent-Shelter/P3072_868/
Love the fact this tent is rated for FTTH work. I assume they sell them as upgrades for any telco still using inferior pre-FTTH copper-cable rated tents. Aled
+1 for agreeing needs to be restrung. This made me laugh! Nice humor for the day. But you know someone should call the utility company that owns the pole and report it. Also file a complaint with your ROW division and corporation commission. -----Original Message----- From: Joel Esler [mailto:joel.esler@me.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 2:34 PM To: Harry Hoffman Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible! On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net> wrote:
What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-)
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their
office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think it is bad techs rather than a temporary, "keep it working until you can do it right." That said, I've seen more jury-rigging in my time than I care to think about. Nothing like a temporary fix that is still in place five years later. On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 03:33:59PM -0400, Joel Esler wrote:
Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung?
That's horrible!
On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net> wrote:
What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-)
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Wayne E Bouchard <web@typo.org> wrote:
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think it is bad techs rather than a temporary, "keep it working until you can do it right."
Uh... no. Quick hacks happen from time to time to keep things running. Layers upon layers of quick hacks that are never cleaned up (see picture) happen through incompetence. If not on the part of the techs then on the part of the managers who rushed the techs onward to the next task. Always time to do it over, never time to do it right == incompetent. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months. What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a "Class 1 inspection", then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month. -----Original Message----- From: William Herrin [mailto:bill@herrin.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:58 AM To: Wayne E Bouchard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Wayne E Bouchard <web@typo.org> wrote:
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think it is bad techs rather than a temporary, "keep it working until you can do it right."
Uh... no. Quick hacks happen from time to time to keep things running. Layers upon layers of quick hacks that are never cleaned up (see picture) happen through incompetence. If not on the part of the techs then on the part of the managers who rushed the techs onward to the next task. Always time to do it over, never time to do it right == incompetent. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Contact your Public Utility Commission, they tend to respond better when there are formal complaints documented. -Steve On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Eric Wieling <EWieling@nyigc.com> wrote:
The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months.
What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a "Class 1 inspection", then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month.
-----Original Message----- From: William Herrin [mailto:bill@herrin.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:58 AM To: Wayne E Bouchard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Wayne E Bouchard <web@typo.org> wrote:
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think it is bad techs rather than a temporary, "keep it working until you can do it right."
Uh... no. Quick hacks happen from time to time to keep things running. Layers upon layers of quick hacks that are never cleaned up (see picture) happen through incompetence. If not on the part of the techs then on the part of the managers who rushed the techs onward to the next task.
Always time to do it over, never time to do it right == incompetent.
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
They throw complaints from Resale CLECs in the trash. I'm starting to think we should convert the line to VZ Direct, then have the customer file PUC complaints, then convert it back when the issue is really resolved. I suspect that is illegal though and we are not going to do that. -----Original Message----- From: smeuse@gmail.com [mailto:smeuse@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Steve Meuse Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:31 PM To: Eric Wieling Cc: William Herrin; Wayne E Bouchard; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags Contact your Public Utility Commission, they tend to respond better when there are formal complaints documented. -Steve On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Eric Wieling <EWieling@nyigc.com> wrote: The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months. What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a "Class 1 inspection", then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month. -----Original Message----- From: William Herrin [mailto:bill@herrin.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:58 AM To: Wayne E Bouchard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Wayne E Bouchard <web@typo.org> wrote: >> > On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: >> >> http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ > To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in > perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be > acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a > propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think > it is bad techs rather than a temporary, "keep it working until you > can do it right." Uh... no. Quick hacks happen from time to time to keep things running. Layers upon layers of quick hacks that are never cleaned up (see picture) happen through incompetence. If not on the part of the techs then on the part of the managers who rushed the techs onward to the next task. Always time to do it over, never time to do it right == incompetent. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012, Eric Wieling wrote:
They throw complaints from Resale CLECs in the trash. I'm starting to think we should convert the line to VZ Direct, then have the customer file PUC complaints, then convert it back when the issue is really resolved. I suspect that is illegal though and we are not going to do that.
Not sure if "they" = Verizon or the NY PSC in thie case. I'm assuming Verizon. There might be a means to request a more formal hearing on the particulars of a complaint. I don't know the inner workings of NY state government, so I don't know how feasible this is. Have you discussed the issue with your CLEC? jms
-----Original Message----- From: smeuse@gmail.com [mailto:smeuse@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Steve Meuse Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:31 PM To: Eric Wieling Cc: William Herrin; Wayne E Bouchard; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Contact your Public Utility Commission, they tend to respond better when there are formal complaints documented.
-Steve
On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Eric Wieling <EWieling@nyigc.com> wrote:
The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months.
What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a "Class 1 inspection", then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month.
-----Original Message----- From: William Herrin [mailto:bill@herrin.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:58 AM To: Wayne E Bouchard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Wayne E Bouchard <web@typo.org> wrote:
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think it is bad techs rather than a temporary, "keep it working until you can do it right."
Uh... no. Quick hacks happen from time to time to keep things running. Layers upon layers of quick hacks that are never cleaned up (see picture) happen through incompetence. If not on the part of the techs then on the part of the managers who rushed the techs onward to the next task.
Always time to do it over, never time to do it right == incompetent.
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Eric Wieling <EWieling@nyigc.com> wrote:
[The PUC] throw complaints from Resale CLECs in the trash. I'm starting to think we should convert the line to VZ Direct, then have the customer file PUC complaints, then convert it back when the issue is really resolved. I suspect that is illegal though and we are not going to do that.
Because CLECs are whiners jockeying for advantage against the ILECs. Fill out the information, include the photograph and ask your _customer_ to file it with the PUC. If they bounce it for not-direct-customer, refile with a CC to the political appointee heading the commission and the editor at each of the local news desks. You have the thousand-word picture. You will get action when just one news desk calls the appointee. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Could you not take then to court for down grading your property values in your area? Ephesians 4:32 & Cheers!!! A password is like a... toothbrush ;^) Choose a good one, change it regularly and don't share it. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Wieling [mailto:EWieling@nyigc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:43 AM To: Steve Meuse Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags They throw complaints from Resale CLECs in the trash. I'm starting to think we should convert the line to VZ Direct, then have the customer file PUC complaints, then convert it back when the issue is really resolved. I suspect that is illegal though and we are not going to do that. -----Original Message----- From: smeuse@gmail.com [mailto:smeuse@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Steve Meuse Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:31 PM To: Eric Wieling Cc: William Herrin; Wayne E Bouchard; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags Contact your Public Utility Commission, they tend to respond better when there are formal complaints documented. -Steve On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Eric Wieling <EWieling@nyigc.com> wrote: The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months. What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a "Class 1 inspection", then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month. -----Original Message----- From: William Herrin [mailto:bill@herrin.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:58 AM To: Wayne E Bouchard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Wayne E Bouchard <web@typo.org> wrote: >> > On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: >> >> http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ > To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in > perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be > acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a > propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think > it is bad techs rather than a temporary, "keep it working until you > can do it right." Uh... no. Quick hacks happen from time to time to keep things running. Layers upon layers of quick hacks that are never cleaned up (see picture) happen through incompetence. If not on the part of the techs then on the part of the managers who rushed the techs onward to the next task. Always time to do it over, never time to do it right == incompetent. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Sometimes a complaint to the corporate offices, faxed so it's something physical that has be dealt with gets attention. Though relationship-wise you'd probably be burning a bridge, somewhat more so than posting the problem to nanog. Greg On Aug 22, 2012, at 12:43 PM, Eric Wieling <EWieling@nyigc.com> wrote:
They throw complaints from Resale CLECs in the trash. I'm starting to think we should convert the line to VZ Direct, then have the customer file PUC complaints, then convert it back when the issue is really resolved. I suspect that is illegal though and we are not going to do that.
-----Original Message----- From: smeuse@gmail.com [mailto:smeuse@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Steve Meuse Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:31 PM To: Eric Wieling Cc: William Herrin; Wayne E Bouchard; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Contact your Public Utility Commission, they tend to respond better when there are formal complaints documented.
-Steve
On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Eric Wieling <EWieling@nyigc.com> wrote:
The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months.
What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a "Class 1 inspection", then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month.
-----Original Message----- From: William Herrin [mailto:bill@herrin.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:58 AM To: Wayne E Bouchard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Wayne E Bouchard <web@typo.org> wrote:
On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think it is bad techs rather than a temporary, "keep it working until you can do it right."
Uh... no. Quick hacks happen from time to time to keep things running. Layers upon layers of quick hacks that are never cleaned up (see picture) happen through incompetence. If not on the part of the techs then on the part of the managers who rushed the techs onward to the next task.
Always time to do it over, never time to do it right == incompetent.
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
From: Eric Wieling [mailto:EWieling@nyigc.com]
The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months.
What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a "Class 1 inspection", then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month.
You don't have a hose? Jamie
Most often it's about who you talk to. We had a problem with a low cable over a driveway that AT&T trouble desk did nothing about for a long time. Next time we called the phone number that appears on some of their pedestals and turns out to be some kind of outside plant oriented help desk and they had someone on site in about an hour. Another tactic is sometimes to intercept a local tech in the area and tell them about it. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Bowden [mailto:jamie@photon.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:21 PM To: Eric Wieling; William Herrin; Wayne E Bouchard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
From: Eric Wieling [mailto:EWieling@nyigc.com]
The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months.
What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a "Class 1 inspection", then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month.
You don't have a hose? Jamie
What's the bubble-wrap for? Protection in case of bird collision? Looks like they borrowed from Qwest's repair manual. We have a lot of pedestals around the city that are covered in Hefty bags. Granted, we're in Phoenix, and there isn't much here that is prepared for rain since we don't get a lot of it. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Wieling [mailto:EWieling@nyigc.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:10 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
Temporary Fix + It Works = Permanent Fix On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Pedersen, Sean <Sean.Pedersen@usairways.com
wrote:
What's the bubble-wrap for? Protection in case of bird collision?
Looks like they borrowed from Qwest's repair manual. We have a lot of pedestals around the city that are covered in Hefty bags. Granted, we're in Phoenix, and there isn't much here that is prepared for rain since we don't get a lot of it.
-----Original Message----- From: Eric Wieling [mailto:EWieling@nyigc.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:10 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
You misunderstand the engineering that went into this project. 1. The black garbage bag was the original install. It has served past the self life and has become outmoded. You can clearly see the wind whipped ends that are to give it a nice cosmetic appeal. The plastic is breaking down and in dire need of replacing anyway, it is old. THAT is why the failure returned. I suspect if there is a 12 month history, you will see a similar issue in the past. 2. The pink, NON-ESD bubble wrap is an UPGRADE. It is approved for electronics use. They spent some budget on this! WAY more than the $.23 black bag. Not as stylish though. There was clear and concise thought that went into this .... "ahem" repair. THAT is what scares me more than anything. d On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
On 8/20/2012 12:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
I see Verizon is continuing to do quality work. Reminds me of some work they did by my parent's house once. Instead of splicing and burying a cable after fixing it, they just left it laying out in the open. But the tech did take the time to put bags over the splice cases he used.
I've seen ATT do this too... -Mike On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Eric Wieling <EWieling@nyigc.com> wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
-- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.lyon@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
On Aug 20, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
I was just walking home to see similar craftsmanship (garbage bags and all) on two poles behind our new apartment. I believe this is AT&T territory in Chicago Pole 1 - there is literally a rat/squirrel/bird nest behind the wiring: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KqNM2R3MOnQ/UHb7Sk3FPmI/AAAAAAAAG84/XVDEX... https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Nwe3xErIU4o/UHb7Su66QLI/AAAAAAAAG84/fOl6f... https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sDjLkDdDt9w/UHb7SuQq-jI/AAAAAAAAG84/RAUtB... Pole 2 (not quite as bad): https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wONWhhi4q9c/UHb7SrnX0ZI/AAAAAAAAG84/XcgxT...
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Ryan Rawdon <ryan@u13.net> wrote:
I was just walking home to see similar craftsmanship (garbage bags and all) on two poles behind our new apartment. I believe this is AT&T territory in Chicago
Solution: http://tinyurl.com/9ppty9j
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:12 AM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
Solution: http://tinyurl.com/9ppty9j
Not a Stihl? (Steps back to see if anyone takes the bait....) Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Rawdon" <ryan@u13.net>
On Aug 20, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains.
The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare.
I was just walking home to see similar craftsmanship (garbage bags and all) on two poles behind our new apartment. I believe this is AT&T territory in Chicago
This isn't news in GTE territory, at least; I've seen them use contractor garbage bags -- or something akin to them -- and tie-wraps, to close broken pedestals, and occasionally aerial closures, for at least 30 years; GTE was Cut-To-Clear all the way back to the 80s, and maybe into the 70s. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
participants (28)
-
Aled Morris -
Ben Bartsch -
David Scott -
Eric Wieling -
Gary Buhrmaster -
glen wiley -
Greg Ihnen -
Harry Hoffman -
Jamie Bowden -
Jay Ashworth -
Joe Greco -
Joel Esler -
John T. Yocum -
Jon Lewis -
Justin M. Streiner -
Mike Lyon -
Mike Walter -
Miles Fidelman -
Naslund, Steve -
Network IPdog -
Otis L. Surratt, Jr. -
Pedersen, Sean -
R. Benjamin Kessler -
Ryan Rawdon -
Steve Meuse -
Wayne E Bouchard -
William Allen Simpson -
William Herrin