Could someone from Comcast's NOC contact me off-list? We're seeing some traffic take a strange route on its way back to some Comcast prefixes from several of our systems. Thank you! -Rob
Rob: Comcast engineers are on the NANOG list. If you reply with IP and traceroute they can help u. I hear there are networks at capacity b/c of ratios. Everybody wants to send Comcast traffic, but noone wants to send money. V
From: wingcomm@hotmail.com To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Comcast NOC Contact Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 04:17:04 -0500
Could someone from Comcast's NOC contact me off-list? We're seeing some traffic take a strange route on its way back to some Comcast prefixes from several of our systems. Thank you! -Rob
On 02/03/2013 18:07, Vinod K wrote:
I hear there are networks at capacity b/c of ratios. Everybody wants to send Comcast traffic, but noone wants to send money.
The flip side of this argument is that as it's mostly an access network with an asymmetric last mile infrastructure, the natural aggregate internet traffic profile of the total sum (bytes-in, bytes-out) counted at the customer hand-off points will tend to be weighted in one direction. For providers who have an overall asymmetric traffic profile towards Comcast, it's a matter of perspective as to whether you view this as the providers sending Comcast traffic or Comcast customers pulling it. So it's hardly surprising that there are disagreements about who gets to pay the other for the interconnection arrangements. Nick
And the sad surprising part of all this is that they don't do public peering, which would go long ways to reduce pressures on their network... Nor do the wish to sell transit to their network at a reasonable rate .. What a shame! Faisal On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
On 02/03/2013 18:07, Vinod K wrote:
I hear there are networks at capacity b/c of ratios. Everybody wants to send Comcast traffic, but noone wants to send money.
The flip side of this argument is that as it's mostly an access network with an asymmetric last mile infrastructure, the natural aggregate internet traffic profile of the total sum (bytes-in, bytes-out) counted at the customer hand-off points will tend to be weighted in one direction.
For providers who have an overall asymmetric traffic profile towards Comcast, it's a matter of perspective as to whether you view this as the providers sending Comcast traffic or Comcast customers pulling it. So it's hardly surprising that there are disagreements about who gets to pay the other for the interconnection arrangements.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
For providers who have an overall asymmetric traffic profile towards Comcast, it's a matter of perspective as to whether you view this as the providers sending Comcast traffic or Comcast customers pulling it. So it's hardly surprising that there are disagreements about who gets to pay the other for the interconnection arrangements.
Saying that it's a matter of perspective is a false dichotomy. If the providers go away, the Comcast customers will pull traffic from other providers. If the *customers* go away... Nope; Comcast is acting as the agent of its customers to pull in traffic they want to see, and if it isn't charging them enough for that, that is *Comcast's* problem. It's really a bright-line answer. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Yeah, I've been hitting congested links with several of my customers. This was just a case of one of our customer's prefixes taking an extra long journey from one region to another. Thank you to all who responded! I think we might on our way to remediating this small issue! -Rob
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 11:03:10 -0500 From: jra@baylink.com To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Comcast NOC Contact
----- Original Message -----
On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
For providers who have an overall asymmetric traffic profile towards Comcast, it's a matter of perspective as to whether you view this as the providers sending Comcast traffic or Comcast customers pulling it. So it's hardly surprising that there are disagreements about who gets to pay the other for the interconnection arrangements.
Saying that it's a matter of perspective is a false dichotomy.
If the providers go away, the Comcast customers will pull traffic from other providers.
If the *customers* go away...
Nope; Comcast is acting as the agent of its customers to pull in traffic they want to see, and if it isn't charging them enough for that, that is *Comcast's* problem.
It's really a bright-line answer.
Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
What congested links r u seeing? When we contacted Comcast for peering, Ren Provo explain that ratios r balanced b/c of their media and cloud products... imbalance is common misunderstanding. Vinod
From: wingcomm@hotmail.com To: jra@baylink.com; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Comcast NOC Contact Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 14:35:59 -0500
Yeah, I've been hitting congested links with several of my customers. This was just a case of one of our customer's prefixes taking an extra long journey from one region to another. Thank you to all who responded! I think we might on our way to remediating this small issue! -Rob
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 11:03:10 -0500 From: jra@baylink.com To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Comcast NOC Contact
----- Original Message -----
On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
For providers who have an overall asymmetric traffic profile towards Comcast, it's a matter of perspective as to whether you view this as the providers sending Comcast traffic or Comcast customers pulling it. So it's hardly surprising that there are disagreements about who gets to pay the other for the interconnection arrangements.
Saying that it's a matter of perspective is a false dichotomy.
If the providers go away, the Comcast customers will pull traffic from other providers.
If the *customers* go away...
Nope; Comcast is acting as the agent of its customers to pull in traffic they want to see, and if it isn't charging them enough for that, that is *Comcast's* problem.
It's really a bright-line answer.
Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Uhm, no I did not. I'd be happy to review your request. Send over your ASN to the proper channels please. -ren_provo@cable.comcast.com On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Vinod K <vinod408@hotmail.com> wrote:
What congested links r u seeing?
When we contacted Comcast for peering, Ren Provo explain that ratios r balanced b/c of their media and cloud products... imbalance is common misunderstanding.
Vinod
From: wingcomm@hotmail.com To: jra@baylink.com; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Comcast NOC Contact Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 14:35:59 -0500
Yeah, I've been hitting congested links with several of my customers. This was just a case of one of our customer's prefixes taking an extra long journey from one region to another. Thank you to all who responded! I think we might on our way to remediating this small issue! -Rob
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 11:03:10 -0500 From: jra@baylink.com To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Comcast NOC Contact
----- Original Message -----
On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
For providers who have an overall asymmetric traffic profile towards Comcast, it's a matter of perspective as to whether you view this as the providers sending Comcast traffic or Comcast customers pulling it. So it's hardly surprising that there are disagreements about who gets to pay the other for the interconnection arrangements.
Saying that it's a matter of perspective is a false dichotomy.
If the providers go away, the Comcast customers will pull traffic from other providers.
If the *customers* go away...
Nope; Comcast is acting as the agent of its customers to pull in traffic they want to see, and if it isn't charging them enough for that, that is *Comcast's* problem.
It's really a bright-line answer.
Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Comcast's customers send money to Comcast in order to receive whatever they want from other networks. With that money, Comcast should invest in infrastructure so that it's network is not saturated anymore. Isn't this how IPSs work ? :) On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Vinod K <vinod408@hotmail.com> wrote:
Rob:
Comcast engineers are on the NANOG list. If you reply with IP and traceroute they can help u.
I hear there are networks at capacity b/c of ratios. Everybody wants to send Comcast traffic, but noone wants to send money.
V
From: wingcomm@hotmail.com To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Comcast NOC Contact Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 04:17:04 -0500
Could someone from Comcast's NOC contact me off-list? We're seeing some traffic take a strange route on its way back to some Comcast prefixes from several of our systems. Thank you! -Rob
From: Eugeniu Patrascu [mailto:eugen@imacandi.net]
Comcast's customers send money to Comcast in order to receive whatever they want from other networks. With that money, Comcast should invest in infrastructure so that it's network is not saturated anymore. Isn't this how IPSs work ? :)
In competitive markets, that's the theory. That would require one to test with... Jamie
My comment was more or less directed to the person that said "losts of people want to send traffic to comcast, but no one wants to send money". I find it very dangerous and provocative, and somewhat on the same line with others that believe in the "sender party pays" crap they're trying to force onto the market. On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Jamie Bowden <jamie@photon.com> wrote:
From: Eugeniu Patrascu [mailto:eugen@imacandi.net]
Comcast's customers send money to Comcast in order to receive whatever they want from other networks. With that money, Comcast should invest in infrastructure so that it's network is not saturated anymore. Isn't this how IPSs work ? :)
In competitive markets, that's the theory. That would require one to test with...
Jamie
Eugen and NANOG I'm sorry. My earlier comment was from conversation my last employer had about peering with Comcast where they told us they had balanced ratios. You can see from Ren Provo that is no longer true. This is politics as usual, playing the silly game. I am sorry to offend. I wish they work things out with Google so Youtube will stop buffering. Regards Vinod
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 17:16:47 +0200 Subject: Re: Comcast NOC Contact From: eugen@imacandi.net To: nanog@nanog.org
My comment was more or less directed to the person that said "losts of people want to send traffic to comcast, but no one wants to send money". I find it very dangerous and provocative, and somewhat on the same line with others that believe in the "sender party pays" crap they're trying to force onto the market.
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Jamie Bowden <jamie@photon.com> wrote:
From: Eugeniu Patrascu [mailto:eugen@imacandi.net]
Comcast's customers send money to Comcast in order to receive whatever they want from other networks. With that money, Comcast should invest in infrastructure so that it's network is not saturated anymore. Isn't this how IPSs work ? :)
In competitive markets, that's the theory. That would require one to test with...
Jamie
Its a bit more complicated than that, especially when you're a large operator that all the content providers need to be able to reach and you have a (largely) converged backbone system. On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Eugeniu Patrascu <eugen@imacandi.net> wrote:
Comcast's customers send money to Comcast in order to receive whatever they want from other networks. With that money, Comcast should invest in infrastructure so that it's network is not saturated anymore. Isn't this how IPSs work ? :)
On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Vinod K <vinod408@hotmail.com> wrote:
Rob:
Comcast engineers are on the NANOG list. If you reply with IP and traceroute they can help u.
I hear there are networks at capacity b/c of ratios. Everybody wants to send Comcast traffic, but noone wants to send money.
V
From: wingcomm@hotmail.com To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Comcast NOC Contact Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 04:17:04 -0500
Could someone from Comcast's NOC contact me off-list? We're seeing some traffic take a strange route on its way back to some Comcast prefixes
from
several of our systems. Thank you!
-Rob
-- Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------
participants (10)
-
Eugeniu Patrascu -
Faisal Imtiaz -
Jamie Bowden -
Jay Ashworth -
Livingood, Jason -
Nick Hilliard -
R W -
Ren Provo -
Scott Helms -
Vinod K