has charging for config changes a la https://www.arelion.com/customer-excellence/customer-support/online-technica... become common while i was not looking? admittedly, i have not looked for a long time. randy
First I’ve heard of a provider doing it… and we do business with 3356, the one carrier I’d expect to do something like this :-) Might just be me, but I rarely have to have config changes done on circuits after provisioning, short of enabling dual stack bgp on a circuit that didn’t have it previously, or if a provider did something silly with your config after provisioning/acceptance like send you a default route all of a sudden. Despite that, I know there are lots of people that can’t decide on how they want to do things, or refuse to use and/or don’t understand things like IRR. I don’t do anything with 1299 (yet), but I could potentially see this as a “PITA surcharge” to discourage people from being unable to make their minds up… surely they would waive it for clueful customers who are making a reasonable quantity of changes.
On Jun 30, 2024, at 4:17 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
has charging for config changes a la https://www.arelion.com/customer-excellence/customer-support/online-technica... become common while i was not looking? admittedly, i have not looked for a long time.
randy
AS7545 charge fees for changes. Even for trivial things such as updating RDNS records. CH Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+chris=thesysadmin.au@nanog.org> on behalf of Tim Burke <tim@mid.net> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 11:33:46 AM To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: charging for config changess First I’ve heard of a provider doing it… and we do business with 3356, the one carrier I’d expect to do something like this :-) Might just be me, but I rarely have to have config changes done on circuits after provisioning, short of enabling dual stack bgp on a circuit that didn’t have it previously, or if a provider did something silly with your config after provisioning/acceptance like send you a default route all of a sudden. Despite that, I know there are lots of people that can’t decide on how they want to do things, or refuse to use and/or don’t understand things like IRR. I don’t do anything with 1299 (yet), but I could potentially see this as a “PITA surcharge” to discourage people from being unable to make their minds up… surely they would waive it for clueful customers who are making a reasonable quantity of changes.
On Jun 30, 2024, at 4:17 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
has charging for config changes a la https://www.arelion.com/customer-excellence/customer-support/online-technica... become common while i was not looking? admittedly, i have not looked for a long time.
randy
From experience, I can imagine that Arelion has a very small subset of customers that are blowing up their tech support for changes like these constantly. I'm sure it's a punitive measure to deter these guys. Aaron On 30.06.2024 20:33, Tim Burke wrote:
First I've heard of a provider doing it... and we do business with 3356, the one carrier I'd expect to do something like this :-)
Might just be me, but I rarely have to have config changes done on circuits after provisioning, short of enabling dual stack bgp on a circuit that didn't have it previously, or if a provider did something silly with your config after provisioning/acceptance like send you a default route all of a sudden.
Despite that, I know there are lots of people that can't decide on how they want to do things, or refuse to use and/or don't understand things like IRR. I don't do anything with 1299 (yet), but I could potentially see this as a "PITA surcharge" to discourage people from being unable to make their minds up... surely they would waive it for clueful customers who are making a reasonable quantity of changes.
On Jun 30, 2024, at 4:17 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote: has charging for config changes a la https://www.arelion.com/customer-excellence/customer-support/online-technica... [1] become common while i was not looking? admittedly, i have not looked for a long time. randy
Links: ------ [1] https://www.arelion.com/customer-excellence/customer-support/online-technica...
Sun, Jun 30, 2024 at 02:17:12PM -0700, Randy Bush:
has charging for config changes a la https://www.arelion.com/customer-excellence/customer-support/online-technica... become common while i was not looking? admittedly, i have not looked for a long time.
Many of those things could be automated via a customer portal.
On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 11:01 AM heasley <heas@shrubbery.net> wrote:
Sun, Jun 30, 2024 at 02:17:12PM -0700, Randy Bush: Many of those things could be automated via a customer portal.
Oh totally. Want to update your reverse DNS record? Just put in a credit card number and *bam* $250 charge to your card. ;)
Reminds me of some colo providers that charge you to cancel a service. Want to disconnect a cross connect? *bam* $250, or some such obscene amount. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:%22Aaron%20C.%20de%20Bruyn%20via%20NANOG%22%20%3cnanog@nanog.org%3e>> Reply-To: Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron@heyaaron.com<mailto:%22Aaron%20C.%20de%20Bruyn%22%20%3caaron@heyaaron.com%3e>> To: heasley <heas@shrubbery.net<mailto:heasley%20%3cheas@shrubbery.net%3e>> Cc: North American Network Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:North%20American%20Network%20Operators'%20Group%20%3cnanog@nanog.org%3e>> Subject: Re: charging for config changess Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2024 13:39:54 -0700 On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 11:01 AM heasley <heas@shrubbery.net<mailto:heas@shrubbery.net>> wrote: Sun, Jun 30, 2024 at 02:17:12PM -0700, Randy Bush: Many of those things could be automated via a customer portal. Oh totally. Want to update your reverse DNS record? Just put in a credit card number and *bam* $250 charge to your card. ;)
Cologix is $450/mo even if your contract and the Cologix legal department says it's a different amount. $250 one time disconnect is cheap. On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 4:40 PM Justin Krejci <JKrejci@usinternet.com> wrote:
Reminds me of some colo providers that charge you to cancel a service. Want to disconnect a cross connect? *bam* $250, or some such obscene amount.
-----Original Message----- *From*: Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org <%22Aaron%20C.%20de%20Bruyn%20via%20NANOG%22%20%3cnanog@nanog.org%3e>> *Reply-To*: Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron@heyaaron.com <%22Aaron%20C.%20de%20Bruyn%22%20%3caaron@heyaaron.com%3e>> *To*: heasley <heas@shrubbery.net <heasley%20%3cheas@shrubbery.net%3e>> *Cc*: North American Network Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org <North%20American%20Network%20Operators'%20Group%20%3cnanog@nanog.org%3e>> *Subject*: Re: charging for config changess *Date*: Mon, 01 Jul 2024 13:39:54 -0700
On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 11:01 AM heasley <heas@shrubbery.net> wrote:
Sun, Jun 30, 2024 at 02:17:12PM -0700, Randy Bush: Many of those things could be automated via a customer portal.
Oh totally. Want to update your reverse DNS record? Just put in a credit card number and *bam* $250 charge to your card. ;)
On Sun, Jun 30, 2024 at 02:17:12PM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
has charging for config changes a la https://www.arelion.com/customer-excellence/customer-support/online-technica... become common while i was not looking? admittedly, i have not looked for a long time.
Randy, I can tell you NETCOM/AS2551 did charge a monthly maintenance fee for managing CPE devices, or customers could opt to self manage their CPE, in which case if they requested assistance making changes, they would be charged per incident. (It was something relatively modest -- $50?) So it's not that new. That said, I can't remember ever charging someone for BGP configuration changes on the upstream side, either. Unfortunately there's always a small set of customers that will constantly demand changes otherwise, and you need to either start recovering your costs on those changes, or at least encourage them to minimize the number of requested changes. --msa
participants (9)
-
Aaron C. de Bruyn -
aaron＠wholesaleinternet.net -
Christopher Hawker -
heasley -
Josh Luthman -
Justin Krejci -
Majdi S. Abbas -
Randy Bush -
Tim Burke