Someone has been spending time at Equinix. On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 12:01 PM <jstalder@ieee.org> wrote:

Ha! “Surprised”? Well, offering OOB for a reasonable price could be a differentiator for the savvy colo providers, but bean counters say: “Huh? If customer X wants OOB, they can pay ~$300/mo for a cross-connect”. ~$300/mo might seem an exaggeration, but not for some of us. Even ~$150/mo is ridiculous.

If 4G-ish mobile service won’t work, expect to pay. ;-(

-Joel

*From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+jstalder=ieee.org@nanog.org> *On Behalf Of *Matthew Crocker *Sent:* Thursday, April 15, 2021 3:15 PM *To:* NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* OOB management options @ 60 Hudson & 1 Summer

I have routers in both 60 Hudson St & 1 Summer St and I’m looking for some low cost bandwidth options for out of band management. Currently I have Opengear boxes at each site with cell modems but they don’t work too well. I either need to replace them with new cell based devices or find a wireless/ethernet bandwidth option. I only need a couple serial ports and ethernet for when everything breaks.

I’m in DR space @ 60 Hudson and the Markeley MMR @ 1 Summer

I’m surprised OOB bandwidth isn’t a feature for colocation providers.

Thanks

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 12:20 PM Mike McGurty <McGurtyM@ae.com> wrote:

I believe we were recently quoted a price of like $900/month (between cross-connect and monthly charge) for 10Mb OpenGear OOB access in a large Canadian Data Center. We passed. While I don’t disagree, you have to pay for these services. The cost far exceeds the value for what is provided in many cases.

I have often been pleasantly surprised by how often I can open a laptop in a colo, see a list of SSIDs, figure out from the name who runs it, and ask nicely if I can please attach an AP(/station) and OOB widget to their network. I've basically always got the response of "Sure, as long as you are only using it for OOB and don't try route traffic over it, no worries....". Often the reply also includes a "... and, could we do the same? You stand up an AP and we'll tunnel OOB through it". Yes, many colo's frown upon/"ban" Wifi, but what they don't notice doesn't hurt them... The Internet used to be built on people helping each other out - let's see if we can recreate that.... W

Michael

*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces+mcgurtym=ae.com@nanog.org> on behalf of " jstalder@ieee.org" <jstalder@ieee.org> *Date: *Friday, April 16, 2021 at 12:03 PM *To: *'Matthew Crocker' <matthew@corp.crocker.com>, 'NANOG' < nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *[EXTERNAL_MESSAGE] RE: OOB management options @ 60 Hudson & 1 Summer

Ha! “Surprised”? Well, offering OOB for a reasonable price could be a differentiator for the savvy colo providers, but bean counters say: “Huh? If customer X wants OOB, they can pay ~$300/mo for a cross-connect”. ~$300/mo might seem an exaggeration, but not for some of us. Even ~$150/mo is ridiculous.

If 4G-ish mobile service won’t work, expect to pay. ;-(

-Joel

*From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+jstalder=ieee.org@nanog.org> *On Behalf Of *Matthew Crocker *Sent:* Thursday, April 15, 2021 3:15 PM *To:* NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* OOB management options @ 60 Hudson & 1 Summer

I have routers in both 60 Hudson St & 1 Summer St and I’m looking for some low cost bandwidth options for out of band management. Currently I have Opengear boxes at each site with cell modems but they don’t work too well. I either need to replace them with new cell based devices or find a wireless/ethernet bandwidth option. I only need a couple serial ports and ethernet for when everything breaks.

I’m in DR space @ 60 Hudson and the Markeley MMR @ 1 Summer

I’m surprised OOB bandwidth isn’t a feature for colocation providers.

Thanks

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-- The computing scientist’s main challenge is not to get confused by the complexities of his own making. -- E. W. Dijkstra

*nods* band support, where the directional antenna is pointing, etc. cellmapper.com has a good map of tower locations, sector coverage, etc. If you have an Android device, you can contribute to the crowd-sourcing. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> To: "Matthew Crocker" <matthew@corp.crocker.com> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 8:08:55 PM Subject: Re: OOB management options @ 60 Hudson & 1 Summer Before getting rid of the cellular based OOB, look into some more detail about exactly what LTE modems are in those. I've seen some remarkable results from equipment using the 600/700 bands (tmobile, verizon) for getting signal into deeply buried concrete structures. There's a lot of different types and capabilities of cellular data modems on the market. On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 3:15 PM Matthew Crocker < matthew@corp.crocker.com > wrote: I have routers in both 60 Hudson St & 1 Summer St and I’m looking for some low cost bandwidth options for out of band management. Currently I have Opengear boxes at each site with cell modems but they don’t work too well. I either need to replace them with new cell based devices or find a wireless/ethernet bandwidth option. I only need a couple serial ports and ethernet for when everything breaks. I’m in DR space @ 60 Hudson and the Markeley MMR @ 1 Summer I’m surprised OOB bandwidth isn’t a feature for colocation providers. Thanks

Geez, I’ve been at 1 Summer for 6+ years, never new they offered this. I’ll have to check it out Thanks -Matt From: Saku Ytti <saku@ytti.fi> Date: Friday, April 16, 2021 at 1:34 AM To: Matthew Crocker <matthew@corp.crocker.com> Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: OOB management options @ 60 Hudson & 1 Summer CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Crocker. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 at 01:18, Matthew Crocker <matthew@corp.crocker.com<mailto:matthew@corp.crocker.com>> wrote: I have routers in both 60 Hudson St & 1 Summer St and I’m looking for some low cost bandwidth options for out of band management. Currently I’m surprised OOB bandwidth isn’t a feature for colocation providers. That would surprise me too. https://www.digitalrealty.com/connectivity/ip-bandwidth https://www.markleygroup.com/cloud/network/out-of-band -- ++ytti

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 1:08 PM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:

On 4/16/21 1:33 AM, Saku Ytti wrote:

...

https://www.markleygroup.com/cloud/network/out-of-band

Wow, this is an impressive offering. I wish more providers would do this.

+manylots. It's always surprising to me how often companies (in all industries) can be broken up into those that understand the value of goodwill and those that instead nickel-and-dime. My local Potbelly (sandwich ship) every now and then will just say "No charge, this one's on us". This only happens around once every 30-40 times I go in, but they loyalty that it has created means that I go there **way** more often than I otherwise would. It also means that in the few times that something goes wrong/I have a bad experience, I don't really care. The additional profit that they've made from having me as a loyal customer more than covers the cost of 1 free sammich every N. In many ways Markley seems similar - they feel like they understand that some things (like OOB) are annoying to deal with, and that the loyalty / goodwill provided by being "nice" more than repays the cost of the service. W

-- Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net

-- The computing scientist’s main challenge is not to get confused by the complexities of his own making. -- E. W. Dijkstra

We don’t advertise it, but we’ll do the same where we can, which is most POPs. The 2mbit waived commit is smart, clean. I like it! Maybe a list for mutual OOB trades? —L.B. Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO lb@6by7.net <mailto:lb@6by7.net> "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” FCC License KJ6FJJ

On Apr 16, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore <patrick@ianai.net> wrote:

On Apr 16, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net <mailto:warren@kumari.net>> wrote:

...

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 1:08 PM Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:

...

On 4/16/21 1:33 AM, Saku Ytti wrote: https://www.markleygroup.com/cloud/network/out-of-band

Wow, this is an impressive offering. I wish more providers would do this.

+manylots. It's always surprising to me how often companies (in all industries) can be broken up into those that understand the value of goodwill and those that instead nickel-and-dime. My local Potbelly (sandwich ship) every now and then will just say "No charge, this one's on us". This only happens around once every 30-40 times I go in, but they loyalty that it has created means that I go there **way** more often than I otherwise would. It also means that in the few times that something goes wrong/I have a bad experience, I don't really care.

The additional profit that they've made from having me as a loyal customer more than covers the cost of 1 free sammich every N.

In many ways Markley seems similar - they feel like they understand that some things (like OOB) are annoying to deal with, and that the loyalty / goodwill provided by being "nice" more than repays the cost of the service.

As the person who created that product for Markley, I can tell you that is precisely what we were thinking.

It cost us nearly nothing, made customers stickier, generated good will, and created a chance to talk to them about cloud offerings or similar. The only “catch” is you need a fiber xconn. The thinking was it was barely more than a copper xconn for POTS yet you get gigabit instead of dialup, or you would have used fiber to another ISP anyway.

Every serious colo has enough bandwidth that 2 Mbps won’t be noticed, competent network engineers (one hopes), and free switch ports (or can get them cheap). Why don’t they do this? Perhaps someone in finance feels it can be “monetized”. I feel the monetization lowers adoption and kills the other benefits Warren mentions above - which are worth a hell of a lot more than the paltry sum they would get from billing a few customers.

-- TTFN, patrick

PS: The guest SSID at Markley has no captive portal. It was a problem for customers who wanted to have their equipment get on the wifi to download images, etc, so we took it off.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 12:03 PM Saku Ytti <saku@ytti.fi> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 at 19:53, Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE < lb@6by7.net> wrote:

Maybe a list for mutual OOB trades?

...

I would advise against this, OPEX nightmare. Who will NOC call when it is down? What will they say to the other end to identify the circuit? When will it get fixed? If not, how to escalate? Free OOB is too expensive for me.

I think these are definitely concerns to keep in mind. But, keeping them in mind, if anyone is at DR ATL1 (56 Marietta) and wants to do this sort of OOB trade, hit me up off-list, please. lol -- Hunter Fuller (they) Router Jockey VBH Annex B-5 +1 256 824 5331 Office of Information Technology The University of Alabama in Huntsville Network Engineering