would someone at SIXXS please contact me off-list regarding an account issue?
Hi!
would someone at SIXXS please contact me off-list regarding an account issue?
Contact The main contact address for SixXS is info@sixxs.net, which is the sole email address one should use to contact SixXS. Non-English, impolite, clueless, UCE and HTML email gets discarded automatically. The official language used is English, due to archiving issues and the international effort put into SixXS. And you naturally trued that one before sending here, right? Bye, Raymond.
On 4/25/2011 4:07 AM, Raymond Dijkxhoorn wrote:
Hi!
would someone at SIXXS please contact me off-list regarding an account issue?
Contact The main contact address for SixXS is info@sixxs.net, which is the sole email address one should use to contact SixXS. Non-English, impolite, clueless, UCE and HTML email gets discarded automatically. The official language used is English, due to archiving issues and the international effort put into SixXS.
And you naturally trued that one before sending here, right?
Bye, Raymond.
Yes, repeatedly. The response was non-existent, or simply unfortunate, so I'm trying other avenues. Andrew
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote:
Yes, repeatedly. The response was non-existent, or simply unfortunate, so I'm trying other avenues.
I see this quite a lot. I guess one gets what one pays for (or doesn't pay for). Speaking of which, is there an IPv6 tunnel broker that actually charges money and where one can get real support? I would like to be able to refer people who complain about SIXXS and others offering support below expectation from some users. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
On 4/25/2011 3:51 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote:
Yes, repeatedly. The response was non-existent, or simply unfortunate, so I'm trying other avenues.
I see this quite a lot. I guess one gets what one pays for (or doesn't pay for).
Speaking of which, is there an IPv6 tunnel broker that actually charges money and where one can get real support? I would like to be able to refer people who complain about SIXXS and others offering support below expectation from some users.
This is a valid point. We want people to adopt IPv6, and to do this, they either have to be a huge ISP, or deal with 400ms ping times (one broker), or harassing/abusive volunteers (another broker). Now, I understand they're volunteers, I understand it's their own time, I understand that we are all (myself included) complete morons wasting their time. But if these two groups want people to take IPv6 seriously (you know, before the ceiling comes down on our heads), maybe they should take it seriously. Andrew
On 4/25/11 8:12 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote:
Speaking of which, is there an IPv6 tunnel broker that actually
charges money and where one can get real support? I would like to be able to refer people who complain about SIXXS and others offering support below expectation from some users.
This is a valid point. We want people to adopt IPv6, and to do this, they either have to be a huge ISP, or deal with 400ms ping times (one broker), or harassing/abusive volunteers (another broker). Now, I understand they're volunteers, I understand it's their own time, I understand that we are all (myself included) complete morons wasting their time. But if these two groups want people to take IPv6 seriously (you know, before the ceiling comes down on our heads), maybe they should take it seriously.
Andrew
I do believe Hurricane Electric may offer paid ipv6 services, including tunnel. Could always drop them a line and see. Up until last month when native ipv6 came online with our upstream, we had a ipv6 bgp peer tunnel from them - only issues were mostly bugs in foundry's ipv6 code on our end. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote:
But if these two groups want people to take IPv6 seriously (you know, before the ceiling comes down on our heads), maybe they should take it seriously.
Having run a volunteer service before, I can tell you there are a lot of people complaining about the free service. I would imagine the only alternative to doing what they do now is to either get more money and resources (sponsorship or paying customers) or to shut the service down. What is a preferrable service, a "not great" service, or no service at all? I know I wouldn't have the energy to handle all the abuse I see them getting, I would just tell people to go away and go home and watch tv. I'm happy they have the energy to do what they're doing. That's why I asked for SLA level services I can point people to who complain. I'd imagine most of them wouldn't want to pay anyway, but I hope it'll make them think about complaining too much about a free service. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
On 4/25/11 11:28 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
But if these two groups want people to take IPv6 seriously (you know, before the ceiling comes down on our heads), maybe they should take it seriously.
Having run a volunteer service before, I can tell you there are a lot of people complaining about the free service. I would imagine the only alternative to doing what they do now is to either get more money and resources (sponsorship or paying customers) or to shut the service down.
What is a preferrable service, a "not great" service, or no service at all? I know I wouldn't have the energy to handle all the abuse I see them getting, I would just tell people to go away and go home and watch tv. I'm happy they have the energy to do what they're doing.
That's why I asked for SLA level services I can point people to who complain. I'd imagine most of them wouldn't want to pay anyway, but I hope it'll make them think about complaining too much about a free service.
I've run a volunteer/free hosting service since 1997 or so - it never ceases to amaze me how people will complain about free things, but when you ask them to pony up a little monthly support its like you killed their puppy. I just term people who are more of a hassle then they are worth. I confirmed that HE will offer paid tunnel services, however I think I have a good idea of why Andrew was having crazy ping times to some of the tunnel servers. Literally anything I do from my home DSL through qwest that goes through Seattle sometimes doubles or triples the latency as soon as I enter the GBLX network. If I go through my T1, which ends up taking routes through TWTelecom, latency is in the low 20ms-40ms. I have a feeling that there's severe capacity issues on certain networks (may it be specifically between qwest and gblx, or just gblx in general), and unfortunately the lack of ISPs taking native IPv6 seriously puts our dependencies on ipv4 networks that are being held together with duct tape and twine. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
On 4/26/2011 12:11 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote:
I've run a volunteer/free hosting service since 1997 or so - it never ceases to amaze me how people will complain about free things, but when you ask them to pony up a little monthly support its like you killed their puppy. I just term people who are more of a hassle then they are worth.
I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter? Andrew
On Apr 26, 2011, at 6:38 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote:
On 4/26/2011 12:11 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote:
I've run a volunteer/free hosting service since 1997 or so - it never ceases to amaze me how people will complain about free things, but when you ask them to pony up a little monthly support its like you killed their puppy. I just term people who are more of a hassle then they are worth.
I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter?
I can't say about SIXXS but HE has been great to me. If it wasn't for them I would be out in the cold since neither ATT nor Brighthouse (my 2 options at my colo) can even spell IPv6! Tom
On 4/26/2011 8:56 PM, TR Shaw wrote:
On Apr 26, 2011, at 6:38 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote:
I can't say about SIXXS but HE has been great to me. If it wasn't for them I would be out in the cold since neither ATT nor Brighthouse (my 2 options at my colo) can even spell IPv6!
Tom
My goal here isn't to bash HE, just to note that I have _REALLY_ bad routes to it. I had no trouble setting up a tunnel with them. Andrew
In message <4DB76AC1.6080501@trelane.net>, Andrew Kirch writes:
On 4/26/2011 8:56 PM, TR Shaw wrote:
On Apr 26, 2011, at 6:38 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote:
I can't say about SIXXS but HE has been great to me. If it wasn't for them I would be out in the cold since neither ATT nor Brighthouse (my 2 options a t my colo) can even spell IPv6!
Tom
My goal here isn't to bash HE, just to note that I have _REALLY_ bad routes to it. I had no trouble setting up a tunnel with them.
Then I suggest that you complain to your current ISP. This is a IPv4 problem that they should be able to deal with. You are paying them good money for IPv4 connectivity and this is a IPv4 connectivity issue.
Andrew
-- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
Op 27-4-2011 0:38, Andrew Kirch schreef:
On 4/26/2011 12:11 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote:
I've run a volunteer/free hosting service since 1997 or so - it never ceases to amaze me how people will complain about free things, but when you ask them to pony up a little monthly support its like you killed their puppy. I just term people who are more of a hassle then they are worth.
I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter?
This same silence you mention is also my personal experience. I work on a open source firewall project in my spare time and found the issue annoying, as such I've decided to forgot Sixxs (dynamic) tunnel support and recommend the free Hurricane Electric tunnelbroker instead. I can spend my time better in getting OpenVPN working with IPv6 then waiting to accumulate kredits(tm). Kind regards, Seth
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote:
I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter?
So you would prefer that they shut down their service rather than provide current level of support? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
On 27 Apr 2011, at 08:19, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote:
I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter?
So you would prefer that they shut down their service rather than provide current level of support?
I've had very prompt and good replies from SixXS when I've contacted them. Equally students I know who use HE brokers are very happy with their service, e.g. HE have added features in response to feedback. Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mikael Abrahamsson" <swmike@swm.pp.se>
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote:
I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter?
So you would prefer that they shut down their service rather than provide current level of support?
That sounds like the argument he's making, and there's some credit that should be given to it, yes. IPv6 is about, necessarily, to make the turn to being a consumer service. Consumers are *much* less tolerant of shaky implementations of new technologies that they can't see why they would need anyway. I call your attention, for an example, to electronically-assisted voting. There are half a dozen really good reasons why that would be A Good Thing... but the commercially-inspired miserable first 2 or 3 implementations of it have probably absorbed all of the public's tolerance of it for another 10 or 20 years. Cheers, -- jra
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote:
On 4/25/2011 4:07 AM, Raymond Dijkxhoorn wrote:
Hi!
would someone at SIXXS please contact me off-list regarding an account issue?
Contact The main contact address for SixXS is info@sixxs.net, which is the sole email address one should use to contact SixXS. Non-English, impolite, clueless, UCE and HTML email gets discarded automatically. The official language used is English, due to archiving issues and the international effort put into SixXS.
And you naturally trued that one before sending here, right?
Bye, Raymond.
Yes, repeatedly. The response was non-existent, or simply unfortunate, so I'm trying other avenues.
Echo that. IPv6 bgp peering for distributed looking glass has been down for some 6 months or so now. No responses via any channel. It's sad because distributed looking glass has been very useful. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
participants (11)
-
Andrew Kirch -
Brielle Bruns -
Jay Ashworth -
Jima -
Mark Andrews -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Pekka Savola -
Raymond Dijkxhoorn -
Seth Mos -
Tim Chown -
TR Shaw