NAT is fine (1:1), PAT is the cancer (1:Many).
On Jun 17, 2026, at 1:40 PM, Douglas Fischer via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
NAT is cancer! NAT in IPv6 is spreading cancer cells to all the organs of a new, healthy body.
NAT it's not just translate addresses... It needs to deal with the applications upper layers. NAT breaks everything that uses side-connections like P2P communications.
In other words, this idea that NAT66 can save dual-isp-home connections its a lie... It breaks the applications. Especially the end-to-end applications.
Suggesting this kind of solution just reinforces the cloud-server-centric non-opt-outable that we already live with. That is the work way to go!
Em qua., 17 de jun. de 2026 às 12:45, Brandon Jackson via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> escreveu:
routerOS v7 (2021) supports IPv6 NAT66/NPT A quick search also shows that Vyatta supports NAT66/NPT edgeOS, well its Ubiquiti, what do you expect when trying to use trash?
---------------------------------- Brandon Jackson bjackson@napshome.net
On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 11:29 AM Matthew Petach via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 00:32 Marco Moock via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org
wrote:
Am 17.06.26 um 08:29 schrieb Vasilenko Eduard via NANOG:
Has any CPE vendor implemented the redundancy NPTv6 scheme (with all IPv6 features) that Matthew mentioned for NAT44?
No, as normal CPE devices are used by home users. They don't need that. Business users buy professional devices and use BGP or other routing protocols for real redundancy.
*facepalm*
No, my small business with 15 people doesn't buy Juniper routers with two BGP upstreams and pay ARIN for an ASN and provider independent IP space.
But it *does* still want to be able to get work done on the Internet when ISP A goes down by using ISP B.
You seem to be denying the existence of all the small businesses in the world. Given that Google estimates there are 200 to 400 million enterprises with less than 50 employees worldwide, that's a pretty big chunk of the business world to ignore.
Or are you suggesting that 400 million small businesses should get their own ASNs and provider independent IPv6 space, and use BGP to gain redundancy for their businesses?
(talk about driving a demand for more router RAM for the DFZ core! ;-P )
Reminder: 6man WG makes all possible efforts to block NPTv6.
It already exists, IIRC Cisco IOS supports that.
Too bad every small business using edgeOS or Vyatta or routerOS is left out--no NPTv6 or NAT66 for them. But that was some pretty good shilling for Cisco there. ;)
In all seriousness, I hope we're coming to the realization that there's a big use case that is not currently well supported on the V6 world, and telling hundreds of millions of small businesses to add to the BGP-speaking core routing tables is probably *not* the right answer. Unless of course you want Geoff Huston to do a NANOG talk entitled "What The Hell Just Happened?" with a hockey-stick shaped graph showing the number of ASNs in the v6 routing tables. :/
In summary: there are still technical hurdles to deploying IPv6 that we created through our decisions long ago that need to be solved before we can start talking about sunsetting IPv4.
Thanks!
Matt
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