Comcast Service for Non-Cap Bandwidth
NANOG List, I am developing streaming video service, and seek your feedback... I would like to pay Comcast forward so that accessing our site does not count against user's bandwidth caps, similar to the arrangement made with Microsoft Xbox. Does anyone know the name of this service? Is it something the sales contact at http://as7922.peeringdb.com/ can provide? Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Nabil
While I still don't agree it's fair, that arrangement seems limited to the viewing of the Xfinity TV application via XBOX for subscribers who have both an internet and cable TV package via Comcast and not XBOX in general. None the less, the cap is 250gb at the moment, and only applies to residential accounts. On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Nabil Sharma <nabilsharma@hotmail.com> wrote:
NANOG List, I am developing streaming video service, and seek your feedback... I would like to pay Comcast forward so that accessing our site does not count against user's bandwidth caps, similar to the arrangement made with Microsoft Xbox. Does anyone know the name of this service? Is it something the sales contact at http://as7922.peeringdb.com/ can provide? Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Nabil
PC: Thank you for the reply. We will not encourage customers to disconnect cable TV service, think of it more like an add-on. I generate http test stream with DSCP code point 5 to match the Xbox service, however Comcast is rewriting the packets as CS 1, even when serving out a server at Soft Layer (paid peer). This is why I ask for name of service Microsoft is using, it is not the regular paid peering. Sincerely, Nabil
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 17:08:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Comcast Service for Non-Cap Bandwidth From: paul4004@gmail.com To: nabilsharma@hotmail.com CC: nanog@nanog.org
While I still don't agree it's fair, that arrangement seems limited to the viewing of the Xfinity TV application via XBOX for subscribers who have both an internet and cable TV package via Comcast and not XBOX in general. None the less, the cap is 250gb at the moment, and only applies to residential accounts.
On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Nabil Sharma <nabilsharma@hotmail.com> wrote:
NANOG List, I am developing streaming video service, and seek your feedback... I would like to pay Comcast forward so that accessing our site does not count against user's bandwidth caps, similar to the arrangement made with Microsoft Xbox. Does anyone know the name of this service? Is it something the sales contact at http://as7922.peeringdb.com/ can provide? Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Nabil
I generate http test stream with DSCP code point 5 to match the Xbox service, however Comcast is rewriting the packets as CS 1, even when serving out a server at Soft Layer (paid peer). This is why I ask for name of service Microsoft is using, it is not the regular paid peering. Yeah, that won't work but that marking is just for byte counting (which per my other not does not really have any effect now anyway since the 250GB policy was suspended. See also http://blog.comcast.com/2012/05/the-facts-about-xfinity-tv-and-xbox-360-comc... For peering & interconnect, see: http://www.comcast.com/peering/?SCRedirect=true http://www.comcast.com/dedicatedinternet/?SCRedirect=true Thanks Jason
Mail formatting issue with my mail client again… Note that the 1st paragraph was quoted from Nabil...
I generate http test stream with DSCP code point 5 to match the Xbox service, however Comcast is rewriting the packets as CS 1, even when serving out a server at Soft Layer (paid peer). This is why I ask for name of service Microsoft is using, it is not the regular paid peering.
[JL] Yeah, that won't work but that marking is just for byte counting (which per my other not does not really have any effect now anyway since the 250GB policy was suspended. See also http://blog.comcast.com/2012/05/the-facts-about-xfinity-tv-and-xbox-360-comc... For peering & interconnect, see: http://www.comcast.com/peering/?SCRedirect=true http://www.comcast.com/dedicatedinternet/?SCRedirect=true Thanks Jason
From reading the article in the link below, it sounds like they are using DSCP to ensure when a user has maxed their bandwidth allotment (say, downloading the latest WOW update), that TV viewing is not disrupted. Instead of providing QOS on it to do this, it seems they provide you an included-with-the-service additional bandwidth allotment/connection not related to your internet connection, much how normal video is sent. In
Hi Nabil, DSCP tagging on inter-domain internet traffic is not expected to work (I wouldn't expect this to work at any ISP, quite frankly, absent some very special arrangements). theory, this service could work if you cancelled your internet. In reality, it probably won't. Many providers do the same for VOIP traffic if they have phone services, etc (which do often work with no internet service). I will say this -- I do telemetry data distribution which is nothing more than a 1.5 megabit constant UDP stream (multicast anyone? I wish). The amount of traffic I push is roughly ~350gb/month per site. With hundreds of business account sites on Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, cox, and others -- The statistics don't lie. The Comcast network has the least packet loss of the bunch by a wide margin in many cases, and in my opinion, is the most well built consumer broadband access network out there. With forward error correction, It's an extremely rare event that I see any requests for retransmission, generally isolated to maintenance activities. My suggestion? Just send your data towards comcast from a Tier 1 ISP. Get it as close to your users (geographically) as you can, or use a CDN. Then, I think you will be fine. As for the connectivity, you might find it a good idea to explore the comcast paid peering/transit solution if comcast is your primary destination and packet delivery is critical. Heavy NDA requirements resulting in lack of general pricing range input from the community every time the question has come up on NANOG has kept me from inquiring about paid peering. But I will tell you just purchasing from the many transit providers who do publish pricing has not resulted in any problems or congestion, which is a good sign. On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Livingood, Jason < Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com> wrote:
Mail formatting issue with my mail client again… Note that the 1st paragraph was quoted from Nabil...
I generate http test stream with DSCP code point 5 to match the Xbox service, however Comcast is rewriting the packets as CS 1, even when serving out a server at Soft Layer (paid peer). This is why I ask for name of service Microsoft is using, it is not the regular paid peering.
[JL] Yeah, that won't work but that marking is just for byte counting (which per my other not does not really have any effect now anyway since the 250GB policy was suspended. See also http://blog.comcast.com/2012/05/the-facts-about-xfinity-tv-and-xbox-360-comc...
For peering & interconnect, see: http://www.comcast.com/peering/?SCRedirect=true http://www.comcast.com/dedicatedinternet/?SCRedirect=true
Thanks Jason
PC: I also wish to know how much the Comcast "Paid Peering" service costs, and if this is an option that can get us the delivery we require. Could you please help me to understand why it is protected by NDA? Is there anyone on the NANOG list who can share this pricing with me in private? Sincerely, Nabil Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:18:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Comcast Service for Non-Cap Bandwidth From: paul4004@gmail.com To: Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com CC: nabilsharma@hotmail.com; nanog@nanog.org Hi Nabil, DSCP tagging on inter-domain internet traffic is not expected to work (I wouldn't expect this to work at any ISP, quite frankly, absent some very special arrangements).
From reading the article in the link below, it sounds like they are using DSCP to ensure when a user has maxed their bandwidth allotment (say, downloading the latest WOW update), that TV viewing is not disrupted. Instead of providing QOS on it to do this, it seems they provide you an included-with-the-service additional bandwidth allotment/connection not related to your internet connection, much how normal video is sent. In theory, this service could work if you cancelled your internet. In reality, it probably won't. Many providers do the same for VOIP traffic if they have phone services, etc (which do often work with no internet service).
I will say this -- I do telemetry data distribution which is nothing more than a 1.5 megabit constant UDP stream (multicast anyone? I wish). The amount of traffic I push is roughly ~350gb/month per site. With hundreds of business account sites on Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, cox, and others -- The statistics don't lie. The Comcast network has the least packet loss of the bunch by a wide margin in many cases, and in my opinion, is the most well built consumer broadband access network out there. With forward error correction, It's an extremely rare event that I see any requests for retransmission, generally isolated to maintenance activities. My suggestion? Just send your data towards comcast from a Tier 1 ISP. Get it as close to your users (geographically) as you can, or use a CDN. Then, I think you will be fine. As for the connectivity, you might find it a good idea to explore the comcast paid peering/transit solution if comcast is your primary destination and packet delivery is critical. Heavy NDA requirements resulting in lack of general pricing range input from the community every time the question has come up on NANOG has kept me from inquiring about paid peering. But I will tell you just purchasing from the many transit providers who do publish pricing has not resulted in any problems or congestion, which is a good sign. On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com> wrote: Mail formatting issue with my mail client again… Note that the 1st paragraph was quoted from Nabil...
I generate http test stream with DSCP code point 5 to match the Xbox service,
however Comcast is rewriting the packets as CS 1, even when serving out a
server at Soft Layer (paid peer). This is why I ask for name of service Microsoft
is using, it is not the regular paid peering.
[JL] Yeah, that won't work but that marking is just for byte counting (which per my other not does not really have any effect now anyway since the 250GB policy was suspended. See also http://blog.comcast.com/2012/05/the-facts-about-xfinity-tv-and-xbox-360-comc... For peering & interconnect, see: http://www.comcast.com/peering/?SCRedirect=true http://www.comcast.com/dedicatedinternet/?SCRedirect=true Thanks Jason
Just e-mail them if you want to know. I'm sure it wouldn't take much actual effort to obtain a price from sales. Go here, and there's instructions. *www.comcast.com/peering/* ** Having said that, bandwidth from your host (softlayer) has direct comcast private peering (back in 2008, anyways -- http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=740564). Maybe you can find a looking glass somewhere and verify it's still true, and just use them. I wouldn't expect them to honor your DSCP or QOS marking though, or someone larger than you would have already done this. Not likely to work. On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Nabil Sharma <nabilsharma@hotmail.com>wrote:
PC: I also wish to know how much the Comcast "Paid Peering" service costs, and if this is an option that can get us the delivery we require. Could you please help me to understand why it is protected by NDA? Is there anyone on the NANOG list who can share this pricing with me in private? Sincerely, Nabil
Mr. Jason: Thank u for the reply, very informative URL. Understood on the cap, but how long it will remain not enforced is a good guess! What I am trying to is have Comcast mark our IP ranges with QoS, so downloads or congestion inside the household will not degrade performance. You can see at http://ber.gd/post/23025893856/comcast-traffic-prioritization that this is the configuration for Microsoft Xbox. Do you know what this service is called and who at Comcast can help me with the commercials? Sincerely, Nabil From: Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com To: nabilsharma@hotmail.com; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Comcast Service for Non-Cap Bandwidth Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 14:25:10 +0000 Mail formatting issue with my mail client again… Note that the 1st paragraph was quoted from Nabil...
I generate http test stream with DSCP code point 5 to match the Xbox service, however Comcast is rewriting the packets as CS 1, even when serving out a server at Soft Layer (paid peer). This is why I ask for name of service Microsoft is using, it is not the regular paid peering.
[JL] Yeah, that won't work but that marking is just for byte counting (which per my other not does not really have any effect now anyway since the 250GB policy was suspended. See also http://blog.comcast.com/2012/05/the-facts-about-xfinity-tv-and-xbox-360-comc... For peering & interconnect, see: http://www.comcast.com/peering/?SCRedirect=true http://www.comcast.com/dedicatedinternet/?SCRedirect=true Thanks Jason
On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 02:34:06 AM Nabil Sharma wrote:
Mr. Jason: Thank u for the reply, very informative URL. Understood on the cap, but how long it will remain not enforced is a good guess! What I am trying to is have Comcast mark our IP ranges with QoS, so downloads or congestion inside the household will not degrade performance. You can see at http://ber.gd/post/23025893856/comcast-traffic-prioritiz ation that this is the configuration for Microsoft Xbox. Do you know what this service is called and who at Comcast can help me with the commercials?
There is nothing to confirm with any certainty that even though Comcast may be remarking QoS values upon ingress to their network, that those (new) markings actually have any (forwarding) meaning in their network. As someone stated before, relying on QoS for regular IP Transit traffic is tenuous at best. Mark.
Once upon a time, Nabil Sharma <nabilsharma@hotmail.com> said:
I generate http test stream with DSCP code point 5 to match the Xbox service, however Comcast is rewriting the packets as CS 1, even when serving out a server at Soft Layer (paid peer). This is why I ask for name of service Microsoft is using, it is not the regular paid peering.
It is my understanding that the Xbox On-Demand streaming is just talking to the regular On-Demand servers at the head-end (just like On-Demand over QAM works); the traffic has nothing to do with Microsoft's network, peering, etc. That's why Comcast doesn't count it against any caps; it isn't transit traffic, it is local. -- Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
Adams: I would like to understand how this works. I see the Comcast VOD servers for San Francisco are in Seattle, higher round trip and route mile than our servers at Soft Layer in San Jose. We are costing Comcast less money than their own content. Signed, Nabil
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 12:52:30 -0500 From: cmadams@hiwaay.net To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Comcast Service for Non-Cap Bandwidth
Once upon a time, Nabil Sharma <nabilsharma@hotmail.com> said:
I generate http test stream with DSCP code point 5 to match the Xbox service, however Comcast is rewriting the packets as CS 1, even when serving out a server at Soft Layer (paid peer). This is why I ask for name of service Microsoft is using, it is not the regular paid peering.
It is my understanding that the Xbox On-Demand streaming is just talking to the regular On-Demand servers at the head-end (just like On-Demand over QAM works); the traffic has nothing to do with Microsoft's network, peering, etc. That's why Comcast doesn't count it against any caps; it isn't transit traffic, it is local. -- Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
On 27.05.2012 22:27, Nabil Sharma wrote:
NANOG List, I am developing streaming video service, and seek your feedback... I would like to pay Comcast forward so that accessing our site does not count against user's bandwidth caps, similar to the arrangement made with Microsoft Xbox.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57436489-93/comcast-ditches-250gb-data-cap-... The cap is [recently] suspended for most subscribers and if it comes back it looks like it may be under a different policy going forward
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57436489-93/comcast-ditches-250gb-data-cap-... The cap is [recently] suspended for most subscribers and if it comes back it looks like it may be under a different policy going forward Correct - the 250GB limit is suspended while alternatives are evaluated. See http://blog.comcast.com/2012/05/comcast-to-replace-usage-cap-with-improved-d... - Jason
participants (6)
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Chris Adams -
Livingood, Jason -
Mark Tinka -
Nabil Sharma -
PC -
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