Re: Beer and Gear surprise
Why would someone need to buy Merit? Nanog doesn't belong to Merit, does it? Funny, I though it was the North American Network Operators' Group. Doesn't that imply that it collectively belongs to those of use that consider ourselves operators? I don't think people are getting it. It's not about the vendorwear that was eliminated. My point is that someone made a decision about the meeting without even informing the people that were going to attend the meeting beforehand. There was no discussion about it beforehand, no information afterwards, and no mention of it when we signed up for the meeting. The only notification that I saw was a addendum to the charter dated November 2000 which was as long as the original charter. My question, I guess, is this: 1) What does Merit do for Nanog? Looks to me like they help organize the meetings (Which are funded entirely by registration fees and vendor donations, and are supposed to be organized by the hosting organization), host the web site (which has little content on it) and host the mailing list. Am I missing anything else? 2) What gives Merit the right to make decisions about the group without consulting the membership? (Hint: It's not in the charter, or anywhere else I could find) 3) If Merit is not listening to it's membership, and is only providing the web page and mailing list, is there a reason why they are still hosting NANOG? (Hint: It's not in the charter.) I would propose one of the following: 1) The NANOG Charter needs to be revised into a more inclusive charter which includes the resolution of conflicts within the membership, review of the officials actions by the membership and removal of officials by the membership in the event that the actions are in conflict with the membership or charter. There should also be included, in the charter, how to revise and amend the charter. In this option, Merit would still be the ruling body. 2) Remove Merit from the ruling body. There is no reason, today, that the web site and mailing list could not be hosted by someone else. I do not believe that Merit is doing a bad job, but there isn't that much work involved in providing this service. The charter states that meetings are to be organized by the hosting company. I don't see a reason why this could not continue. The charter will still need to be resizes, however to include the items from option 1 3) Continue to live under the rule of a ruling body that does not consult of inform it's membership or decisions that affect the membership and meetings. Merit is under no obligation, at this point, to continue to offer services to NANOG, and the membership has no recourse of action under the current charter. I don't want to play politics, but I think something needs to be done. UK --- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
At 10:08 AM 2/22/2001 -0600, Ukyo Kuonji wrote: [ snip ]
I don't want to play politics, but I think something needs to be done.
What's your address? I have some gear from 17. I'll hand it over if that'll make you happy. I got a t-shirt from Tampa you can have too, replete with lipstick from the strip club across the street. All yours. -M Regards, -- Martin Hannigan hannigan@fugawi.net Fugawi Networks Engineering Boston, MA http://www.fugawi.net Ph: 617.742.2693 Fax: 617.742.2300
There you go monlighting again - what no pumps Marty? On Feb 22, 2001 Martin Hannigan spake:
At 10:08 AM 2/22/2001 -0600, Ukyo Kuonji wrote:
[ snip ]
I don't want to play politics, but I think something needs to be done.
What's your address? I have some gear from 17. I'll hand it over if that'll make you happy. I got a t-shirt from Tampa you can have too, replete with lipstick from the strip club across the street. All yours.
-M
Regards,
-- Martin Hannigan hannigan@fugawi.net Fugawi Networks Engineering Boston, MA http://www.fugawi.net Ph: 617.742.2693 Fax: 617.742.2300
-- Rich Sena - ras@thick.net ThickNET Consulting "On the way to understanding; you understand, and forget."
<rant> *sigh* i apologize in advance for this message as i really didn't want to get involved in this thread... i think it is a silly one. how pathetic are we if the only thing we can discuss is whether or not we get free t-shirts? don't we all have networks to run? :) anyway... if folks have feedback about what they did and did not like about NANOG, the survey form is the appropriate place to voice your opinion. and then, the folks who organize this wonderful conference, can take your opinion into consideration in order to improve the next one... as to the whole beer and gear situation, it wasn't always a part of NANOG, but the organizing folks thought it would be a nice benefit and started letting vendors, etc. sponsor free beer and food for the attendees who could wander and chat with each other and maybe check out some cool equipment. the whole point was to increase the interaction between the attendees and offer a social function. the beer and the gear just happened to be a happy side benefit. NANOG has never tried to fill the same sort of niches as tradeshows, etc. In regards to Merit, how NANOG is run and organized, etc... Merit has been running NANOG forever as part of a service to the community and has always tried to keep the community's best interest at heart (if you don't think this is happening, put it on your survey form) and there is no membership. It is really quite simple, if you don't like it, you don't have to come. There are other member-based organizations that might meet your needs. -abha ;) </rant> On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Ukyo Kuonji wrote:
Why would someone need to buy Merit? Nanog doesn't belong to Merit, does it? Funny, I though it was the North American Network Operators' Group. Doesn't that imply that it collectively belongs to those of use that consider ourselves operators?
I don't think people are getting it. It's not about the vendorwear that was eliminated. My point is that someone made a decision about the meeting without even informing the people that were going to attend the meeting beforehand. There was no discussion about it beforehand, no information afterwards, and no mention of it when we signed up for the meeting. The only notification that I saw was a addendum to the charter dated November 2000 which was as long as the original charter.
My question, I guess, is this:
1) What does Merit do for Nanog?
Looks to me like they help organize the meetings (Which are funded entirely by registration fees and vendor donations, and are supposed to be organized by the hosting organization), host the web site (which has little content on it) and host the mailing list. Am I missing anything else?
2) What gives Merit the right to make decisions about the group without consulting the membership?
(Hint: It's not in the charter, or anywhere else I could find)
3) If Merit is not listening to it's membership, and is only providing the web page and mailing list, is there a reason why they are still hosting NANOG?
(Hint: It's not in the charter.)
I would propose one of the following:
1) The NANOG Charter needs to be revised into a more inclusive charter which includes the resolution of conflicts within the membership, review of the officials actions by the membership and removal of officials by the membership in the event that the actions are in conflict with the membership or charter. There should also be included, in the charter, how to revise and amend the charter. In this option, Merit would still be the ruling body.
2) Remove Merit from the ruling body. There is no reason, today, that the web site and mailing list could not be hosted by someone else. I do not believe that Merit is doing a bad job, but there isn't that much work involved in providing this service. The charter states that meetings are to be organized by the hosting company. I don't see a reason why this could not continue. The charter will still need to be resizes, however to include the items from option 1
3) Continue to live under the rule of a ruling body that does not consult of inform it's membership or decisions that affect the membership and meetings.
Merit is under no obligation, at this point, to continue to offer services to NANOG, and the membership has no recourse of action under the current charter.
I don't want to play politics, but I think something needs to be done.
UK
--- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer.
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On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 08:28:30AM -0800, abha wrote:
*sigh* i apologize in advance for this message as i really didn't want to get involved in this thread... i think it is a silly one. how pathetic are we if the only thing we can discuss is whether or not we get free t-shirts? don't we all have networks to run? :) anyway...
do you really want to imagine folks from NANOG 21 operating their networks topless? it might even be a good idea for the vendors to give out pants. :-) -- Sam Thomas Geek Mercenary
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 08:28:30AM -0800, abha wrote:
*sigh* i apologize in advance for this message as i really didn't want to get involved in this thread... i think it is a silly one. how pathetic are we if the only thing we can discuss is whether or not we get free t-shirts? don't we all have networks to run? :) anyway...
do you really want to imagine folks from NANOG 21 operating their networks topless? it might even be a good idea for the vendors to give out pants. :-)
SOCKS proxies would certainly be on-topic.
-- Sam Thomas Geek Mercenary
Ukyo Kuonji wrote:
Why would someone need to buy Merit? Nanog doesn't belong to Merit, does it? Funny, I though it was the North American Network Operators' Group. Doesn't that imply that it collectively belongs to those of use that consider ourselves operators?
Not in this country, bucko. It's a mailing list. Get over yourself. Usually this list is so interesting, and filled with content, that I overlook the occasional silliness ("network for sale" comes to mind) in favor of the rich educational experience that NANOG offers. I can't believe that you are STILL whining over the fact that you didn't get the latest coffee cup or tshirt (hey, I'd like a Juniper router as a giveaway, if there are any left).
2) What gives Merit the right to make decisions about the group without consulting the membership?
(Hint: It's not in the charter, or anywhere else I could find)
Oh, and there is no membership. Did you send in dues? Were you invited in?
I would propose one of the following:
2) Remove Merit from the ruling body. There is no reason, today, that the web site and mailing list could not be hosted by someone else.
I hope that Queen Susan is reading this. Ruling body, indeed.
I don't want to play politics, but I think something needs to be done.
Right, you don't want to play politics.
Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer.
Probably a good thing, in this case. Congratulations! You've actually made the list. You join ONE other person from NANOG. *plonk* -- Membership? I never join anything. Subscribe, sure, join, never.
From: "Ukyo Kuonji" <kawaii_iinazuke@hotmail.com> To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Beer and Gear (Last one by me) I thought the above subject indicated that you were indeed going to shut up about not getting free underpants. Guess Not.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ukyo Kuonji" <kawaii_iinazuke@hotmail.com> To: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 11:08 AM Subject: Re: Beer and Gear surprise
Why would someone need to buy Merit? Nanog doesn't belong to Merit, does it? Funny, I though it was the North American Network Operators' Group. Doesn't that imply that it collectively belongs to those of use that consider ourselves operators?
I don't think people are getting it. It's not about the vendorwear that
eliminated. My point is that someone made a decision about the meeting without even informing the people that were going to attend the meeting beforehand. There was no discussion about it beforehand, no information afterwards, and no mention of it when we signed up for the meeting. The only notification that I saw was a addendum to the charter dated November 2000 which was as long as the original charter.
My question, I guess, is this:
1) What does Merit do for Nanog?
Looks to me like they help organize the meetings (Which are funded entirely by registration fees and vendor donations, and are supposed to be organized by the hosting organization), host the web site (which has little content on it) and host the mailing list. Am I missing anything else?
2) What gives Merit the right to make decisions about the group without consulting the membership?
(Hint: It's not in the charter, or anywhere else I could find)
3) If Merit is not listening to it's membership, and is only providing
web page and mailing list, is there a reason why they are still hosting NANOG?
(Hint: It's not in the charter.)
I would propose one of the following:
1) The NANOG Charter needs to be revised into a more inclusive charter which includes the resolution of conflicts within the membership, review of the officials actions by the membership and removal of officials by the membership in the event that the actions are in conflict with the membership or charter. There should also be included, in the charter, how to revise and amend the charter. In this option, Merit would still be the ruling body.
2) Remove Merit from the ruling body. There is no reason, today, that
was the the
web site and mailing list could not be hosted by someone else. I do not believe that Merit is doing a bad job, but there isn't that much work involved in providing this service. The charter states that meetings are to be organized by the hosting company. I don't see a reason why this could not continue. The charter will still need to be resizes, however to include the items from option 1
3) Continue to live under the rule of a ruling body that does not consult of inform it's membership or decisions that affect the membership and meetings.
Merit is under no obligation, at this point, to continue to offer services to NANOG, and the membership has no recourse of action under the current charter.
I don't want to play politics, but I think something needs to be done.
UK
--- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer.
_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
It's a Boxer Short Rebellion :) Seriously, though - you through around terms like "membership". Who is that, exactly? - Daniel Golding On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Ukyo Kuonji wrote:
Why would someone need to buy Merit? Nanog doesn't belong to Merit, does it? Funny, I though it was the North American Network Operators' Group. Doesn't that imply that it collectively belongs to those of use that consider ourselves operators?
I don't think people are getting it. It's not about the vendorwear that was eliminated. My point is that someone made a decision about the meeting without even informing the people that were going to attend the meeting beforehand. There was no discussion about it beforehand, no information afterwards, and no mention of it when we signed up for the meeting. The only notification that I saw was a addendum to the charter dated November 2000 which was as long as the original charter.
My question, I guess, is this:
1) What does Merit do for Nanog?
Looks to me like they help organize the meetings (Which are funded entirely by registration fees and vendor donations, and are supposed to be organized by the hosting organization), host the web site (which has little content on it) and host the mailing list. Am I missing anything else?
2) What gives Merit the right to make decisions about the group without consulting the membership?
(Hint: It's not in the charter, or anywhere else I could find)
3) If Merit is not listening to it's membership, and is only providing the web page and mailing list, is there a reason why they are still hosting NANOG?
(Hint: It's not in the charter.)
I would propose one of the following:
1) The NANOG Charter needs to be revised into a more inclusive charter which includes the resolution of conflicts within the membership, review of the officials actions by the membership and removal of officials by the membership in the event that the actions are in conflict with the membership or charter. There should also be included, in the charter, how to revise and amend the charter. In this option, Merit would still be the ruling body.
2) Remove Merit from the ruling body. There is no reason, today, that the web site and mailing list could not be hosted by someone else. I do not believe that Merit is doing a bad job, but there isn't that much work involved in providing this service. The charter states that meetings are to be organized by the hosting company. I don't see a reason why this could not continue. The charter will still need to be resizes, however to include the items from option 1
3) Continue to live under the rule of a ruling body that does not consult of inform it's membership or decisions that affect the membership and meetings.
Merit is under no obligation, at this point, to continue to offer services to NANOG, and the membership has no recourse of action under the current charter.
I don't want to play politics, but I think something needs to be done.
UK
--- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer.
_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
participants (9)
-
abha -
Daniel L. Golding -
Dave Snodgrass -
Etaoin Shrdlu -
Howard C. Berkowitz -
Martin Hannigan -
Rich Sena -
Sam Thomas -
Ukyo Kuonji