Hello there, http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are and I love this. Is there any research / page similar to this which shows similar data but per country basis breakdown instead of showing globally? thanks in advance for your help Mehmet
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have. "ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.” Nothing to do with their peering. -Bill
Sorry what i meant with peering, their total as peer/customer count. I should have worded it correctly thanks Woody. Question still exists, is there any similar data set available per country basis? Mehmet On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 5:41 PM Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have.
"ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.”
Nothing to do with their peering.
-Bill
--
Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote:
Sorry what i meant with peering, their total as peer/customer count. I should have worded it correctly thanks Woody.
Question still exists, is there any similar data set available per country basis?
You want to know how big the per-country customer cones for each AS are? Like, for a given country, what AS has the most down-stream networks within that country? We used to generate those stats, but the code has probably broken long ago. We did it because we had bulk data agreements with all five RIRs, so we had the ASes databased by country-code. We still have that part up-to-date. -Bill
Hi Bill I am just trying to see if there is some way to rank transit providers by the amount of peering+customers they have in a country. I am noticing provider A enters market X saying they are tier 1 network but they do not have a si ngle peering session in country and they backhaul everything back to market Z where they deliver traffic to the peer via high latency and low performance method. This is causing market to receive pricing targets which are unrealistic and hurting telecoms who are genuinely trying to do right thing and establish in country direct peering with peers. I would like to be able to see top 10 networks (top 10 as in adjutancies) a country which has most amount of routes they are advertising. bgp.he.net seems like a good place to see this info. Is there a way to get this data in a format which I can compile reports Rob? (Excel friendly format would be great) Mehmet On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 5:48 PM Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote:
Sorry what i meant with peering, their total as peer/customer count. I should have worded it correctly thanks Woody.
Question still exists, is there any similar data set available per country basis?
You want to know how big the per-country customer cones for each AS are? Like, for a given country, what AS has the most down-stream networks within that country? We used to generate those stats, but the code has probably broken long ago.
We did it because we had bulk data agreements with all five RIRs, so we had the ASes databased by country-code. We still have that part up-to-date.
-Bill
--
Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
Renesys used to have a blog that went into that a bit, but I think Oracle killed it off. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehmet Akcin" <mehmet@akcin.net> To: "Bill Woodcock" <woody@pch.net> Cc: "nanog" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 7:56:34 PM Subject: Re: Most peered AS per country Hi Bill I am just trying to see if there is some way to rank transit providers by the amount of peering+customers they have in a country. I am noticing provider A enters market X saying they are tier 1 network but they do not have a si ngle peering session in country and they backhaul everything back to market Z where they deliver traffic to the peer via high latency and low performance method. This is causing market to receive pricing targets which are unrealistic and hurting telecoms who are genuinely trying to do right thing and establish in country direct peering with peers. I would like to be able to see top 10 networks (top 10 as in adjutancies) a country which has most amount of routes they are advertising. bgp.he.net seems like a good place to see this info. Is there a way to get this data in a format which I can compile reports Rob? (Excel friendly format would be great) Mehmet On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 5:48 PM Bill Woodcock < woody@pch.net > wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mehmet Akcin < mehmet@akcin.net > wrote:
Sorry what i meant with peering, their total as peer/customer count. I should have worded it correctly thanks Woody.
Question still exists, is there any similar data set available per country basis?
You want to know how big the per-country customer cones for each AS are? Like, for a given country, what AS has the most down-stream networks within that country? We used to generate those stats, but the code has probably broken long ago. We did it because we had bulk data agreements with all five RIRs, so we had the ASes databased by country-code. We still have that part up-to-date. -Bill -- Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
The Eyeball Jedi AS-to-AS in-country path metric might be of interest to you: https://www.eyeball-jedi.net/as-to-as-matrix.html On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:04 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
Renesys used to have a blog that went into that a bit, but I think Oracle killed it off.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Mehmet Akcin" <mehmet@akcin.net> *To: *"Bill Woodcock" <woody@pch.net> *Cc: *"nanog" <nanog@nanog.org> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 27, 2018 7:56:34 PM *Subject: *Re: Most peered AS per country
Hi Bill
I am just trying to see if there is some way to rank transit providers by the amount of peering+customers they have in a country.
I am noticing provider A enters market X saying they are tier 1 network but they do not have a si ngle peering session in country and they backhaul everything back to market Z where they deliver traffic to the peer via high latency and low performance method. This is causing market to receive pricing targets which are unrealistic and hurting telecoms who are genuinely trying to do right thing and establish in country direct peering with peers.
I would like to be able to see top 10 networks (top 10 as in adjutancies) a country which has most amount of routes they are advertising.
bgp.he.net seems like a good place to see this info. Is there a way to get this data in a format which I can compile reports Rob? (Excel friendly format would be great)
Mehmet
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 5:48 PM Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote:
Sorry what i meant with peering, their total as peer/customer count. I should have worded it correctly thanks Woody.
Question still exists, is there any similar data set available per country basis?
You want to know how big the per-country customer cones for each AS are? Like, for a given country, what AS has the most down-stream networks within that country? We used to generate those stats, but the code has probably broken long ago.
We did it because we had bulk data agreements with all five RIRs, so we had the ASes databased by country-code. We still have that part up-to-date.
-Bill
--
Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
-- Dan Bateyko https://dbateyko.info
On 28/Nov/18 03:56, Mehmet Akcin wrote:
I am noticing provider A enters market X saying they are tier 1 network but they do not have a si ngle peering session in country and they backhaul everything back to market Z where they deliver traffic to the peer via high latency and low performance method. This is causing market to receive pricing targets which are unrealistic and hurting telecoms who are genuinely trying to do right thing and establish in country direct peering with peers.
In my experience, the market quickly tends to correct itself once the fizz dies out and reality hits. Typical time span has been about 12 months. Mark.
* Mehmet Akcin
I am noticing provider A enters market X saying they are tier 1 network but they do not have a si ngle peering session in country and they backhaul everything back to market Z where they deliver traffic to the peer via high latency and low performance method. This is causing market to receive pricing targets which are unrealistic and hurting telecoms who are genuinely trying to do right thing and establish in country direct peering with peers.
Yeah, don't fall for the marketing hyperbole. A transit provider's «tier» is an extremely poor indicator of its interconnectedness and quality, especially if your traffic is regional in nature. In most cases you'll be much better off buying your IP transit from a regional «tier-2» provider, which tends to give you much better connectivity to other networks in your region - in addition to all the global connectivity that the «tier-2»'s upstream(s) provide, of course. Tore
On 28/Nov/18 14:37, Tore Anderson wrote:
Yeah, don't fall for the marketing hyperbole. A transit provider's «tier» is an extremely poor indicator of its interconnectedness and quality, especially if your traffic is regional in nature. In most cases you'll be much better off buying your IP transit from a regional «tier-2» provider, which tends to give you much better connectivity to other networks in your region - in addition to all the global connectivity that the «tier-2»'s upstream(s) provide, of course.
I find the word "tier" quite awkward... when a large global provider deploys locally in a country/region that only/mostly deals with globally-small (local) providers, the assumption is that all traffic wants to go back to the global carrier's main market (typically Europe and North America). It takes about 12 months before folk realize that this a wrong assumption to bring into the local market. Mark.
Try apnic’s viz-as: https://labs.apnic.net/vizas/ — Tashi On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 10:46, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote:
Sorry what i meant with peering, their total as peer/customer count. I should have worded it correctly thanks Woody.
Question still exists, is there any similar data set available per country basis?
Mehmet
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 5:41 PM Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have.
"ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.”
Nothing to do with their peering.
-Bill
--
Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
-- -- Tashi Phuntsho
Bill is correct. AS Rank’s ranks by customer cone, not peers. Although you can get an ASN’s list of peers. We are currently working on adding country level ranking to AS Rank, but will not have it ready until next year. Bradley
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have.
"ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.”
Nothing to do with their peering.
-Bill
thank you. I am actually trying to see following, https://bgp.he.net/country/AU looking at this, and ranking list by amount of prefixes announced. I can see top 10 networks with amount of prefixes announced in AU, I assume these are the networks with most potential to generate traffic and these are eyeball networks. I would like to know if there is a way to see a transit provider's ASN ,let's say AS1 , and how AS1 is connecting to top 10 networks with amount of prefixes announced in Australia. is this something you are working on ? On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:01 PM Bradley Huffaker <bhuffake@caida.org> wrote:
Bill is correct. AS Rank’s ranks by customer cone, not peers. Although you can get an ASN’s list of peers. We are currently working on adding country level ranking to AS Rank, but will not have it ready until next year.
Bradley
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have.
"ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.”
Nothing to do with their peering.
-Bill
On Nov 28, 2018, at 12:03 PM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote:
I would like to know if there is a way to see a transit provider's ASN ,let's say AS1 , and how AS1 is connecting to top 10 networks with amount of prefixes announced in Australia. is this something you are working on ?
We are going to be providing a country view. This will provide a customer cone size and ranking for each AS using the AS paths to the country’s address space. So you will be able to view AS1’s neighbors ranked by the customer cone in that given region. We will not be providing an individual link break down. Bradley
The number of peers appears to be unreliable. My network is listed with 14 peers but the actual number is much higher. Regards Baldur ons. 28. nov. 2018 04.02 skrev Bradley Huffaker <bhuffake@caida.org>:
Bill is correct. AS Rank’s ranks by customer cone, not peers. Although you can get an ASN’s list of peers. We are currently working on adding country level ranking to AS Rank, but will not have it ready until next year.
Bradley
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have.
"ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.”
Nothing to do with their peering.
-Bill
Hello Baldur, if I'm not wrong, CAIDA are using Route Views and RIPE NCC RIS as data sources. If your AS (or any ASes in your customer cone) is not feeding any BGP route collector, your peers will never appear in their rank. Some of your peers may be seen if any of your peers are connected to a route collector though. Data available is extremely incomplete from that point of view... If you wish to have more reliable data from BGP analyzers using public data, I suggest you to join a collector. I run one of them (Isolario), if you need any more details about that (or about the data incompleteness) just drop me a mail! Best regards, Alessandro Improta IIT-CNR - Isolario project (www.isolario.it) Il 2018-11-28 12:34 Baldur Norddahl ha scritto:
The number of peers appears to be unreliable. My network is listed with 14 peers but the actual number is much higher.
Regards Baldur
ons. 28. nov. 2018 04.02 skrev Bradley Huffaker <bhuffake@caida.org>:
Bill is correct. AS Rank’s ranks by customer cone, not peers. Although you can get an ASN’s list of peers. We are currently working on adding country level ranking to AS Rank, but will not have it ready until next year.
Bradley
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have.
"ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.”
Nothing to do with their peering.
-Bill
Do CAIDA or similar major projects pull data from your project? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "alessandro improta" <alessandro.improta@iit.cnr.it> To: "Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 6:56:25 AM Subject: Re: Most peered AS per country Hello Baldur, if I'm not wrong, CAIDA are using Route Views and RIPE NCC RIS as data sources. If your AS (or any ASes in your customer cone) is not feeding any BGP route collector, your peers will never appear in their rank. Some of your peers may be seen if any of your peers are connected to a route collector though. Data available is extremely incomplete from that point of view... If you wish to have more reliable data from BGP analyzers using public data, I suggest you to join a collector. I run one of them (Isolario), if you need any more details about that (or about the data incompleteness) just drop me a mail! Best regards, Alessandro Improta IIT-CNR - Isolario project (www.isolario.it) Il 2018-11-28 12:34 Baldur Norddahl ha scritto:
The number of peers appears to be unreliable. My network is listed with 14 peers but the actual number is much higher.
Regards Baldur
ons. 28. nov. 2018 04.02 skrev Bradley Huffaker <bhuffake@caida.org>:
Bill is correct. AS Rank’s ranks by customer cone, not peers. Although you can get an ASN’s list of peers. We are currently working on adding country level ranking to AS Rank, but will not have it ready until next year.
Bradley
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have.
"ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.”
Nothing to do with their peering.
-Bill
As far as I know, bgp.he.net is pulling data from Isolario, and some researchers are using our data for their analyses. I'm not aware if anyone else is doing anything with our data since data is freely accessible to everyone at https://www.isolario.it/Isolario_MRT_data/. Right now the MRT page is quite slow, so I beg your pardon in advance... we plan to change storage soon! If you plan to use our data, you have to know that we are collecting data from some feeders in ADDPATH (RFC 7911). So, please use a BGP-MRT data reader which is ADDPATH capable like RIPE bgpdump or bgpscanner (https://gitlab.com/Isolario/bgpscanner). Best regards, Ale Il 2018-11-28 14:58 Mike Hammett ha scritto:
Do CAIDA or similar major projects pull data from your project?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] Midwest Internet Exchange [6] [7] [8] [9] The Brothers WISP [10] [11] [12]
-------------------------
FROM: "alessandro improta" <alessandro.improta@iit.cnr.it> TO: "Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> CC: nanog@nanog.org SENT: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 6:56:25 AM SUBJECT: Re: Most peered AS per country
Hello Baldur, if I'm not wrong, CAIDA are using Route Views and RIPE NCC RIS as data sources. If your AS (or any ASes in your customer cone) is not feeding any BGP route collector, your peers will never appear in their
rank. Some of your peers may be seen if any of your peers are connected to a route collector though. Data available is extremely incomplete from that point of view... If you wish to have more reliable data from BGP analyzers using public data, I suggest you to join a collector. I run one of them (Isolario), if you need any more details about that (or about the data incompleteness) just drop me a mail!
Best regards, Alessandro Improta IIT-CNR - Isolario project (www.isolario.it)
Il 2018-11-28 12:34 Baldur Norddahl ha scritto:
The number of peers appears to be unreliable. My network is listed with 14 peers but the actual number is much higher.
Regards Baldur
ons. 28. nov. 2018 04.02 skrev Bradley Huffaker <bhuffake@caida.org>:
Bill is correct. AS Rank’s ranks by customer cone, not peers. Although you can get an ASN’s list of peers. We are currently working on adding country level ranking to AS Rank, but will not have it ready until next year.
Bradley
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have.
"ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.”
Nothing to do with their peering.
-Bill
Links: ------ [1] http://www.ics-il.com/ [2] https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL [3] https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb [4] https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions [5] https://twitter.com/ICSIL [6] http://www.midwest-ix.com/ [7] https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix [8] https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange [9] https://twitter.com/mdwestix [10] http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ [11] https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp [12] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
Peer with a Route-Views server somewhere. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 5:34:05 AM Subject: Re: Most peered AS per country The number of peers appears to be unreliable. My network is listed with 14 peers but the actual number is much higher. Regards Baldur ons. 28. nov. 2018 04.02 skrev Bradley Huffaker < bhuffake@caida.org >: Bill is correct. AS Rank’s ranks by customer cone, not peers. Although you can get an ASN’s list of peers. We are currently working on adding country level ranking to AS Rank, but will not have it ready until next year. Bradley
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bill Woodcock < woody@pch.net > wrote:
On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Mehmet Akcin < mehmet@akcin.net > wrote: http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are
No, it’s by how many customers they have.
"ASes and Orgs are ranked by their customer cone size, which is the number of their direct and indirect customers.”
Nothing to do with their peering.
-Bill
Checking Isolario Project, I've noticed in Isolario has something country-related as they are displaying country statics on the main page (Screenshot attached) Even if they do not publicly display the data, maybe the guys have something! Alessandro might give you better insight I guess. M. OMER GOLGELI --- AS202365 [1] https://as202365.peeringdb.com [2] https://bgp.he.net/AS202365 [1] NOC: Phone: +90-533-2600533 Email: omer@chronos.com.tr On 2018-11-28 04:37, Mehmet Akcin wrote:
Hello there,
http://as-rank.caida.org/ is impressively showing ranking of ISPs and how well peered they are and I love this.
Is there any research / page similar to this which shows similar data but per country basis breakdown instead of showing globally?
thanks in advance for your help
Mehmet
Links: ------ [1] https://bgp.he.net/AS202365 [2] https://as202365.peeringdb.com/
participants (11)
-
alessandro.improta＠iit.cnr.it -
Baldur Norddahl -
Bill Woodcock -
Bradley Huffaker -
Dan Bateyko -
M. Omer GOLGELI -
Mark Tinka -
Mehmet Akcin -
Mike Hammett -
Tashi Phuntsho -
Tore Anderson