We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon. What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps. Jawaid
Look at Juniper, MX Series. mehmet On Nov 28, 2013, at 9:37 PM, Jawaid Desktop <jb@forethought.net> wrote:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Jawaid
Based on what? On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 9:59 PM, Mehmet Akcin <mehmet@akcin.net> wrote:
Look at Juniper, MX Series.
mehmet
On Nov 28, 2013, at 9:37 PM, Jawaid Desktop <jb@forethought.net> wrote:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Jawaid
If you're staying Cisco, probably the ASR1000 series, or the ASR9K, depending on needs. You probably don't need CSR routers if you're not going to 100Gbps. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Jawaid Desktop <jb@forethought.net> wrote:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Jawaid
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013, Jawaid Desktop wrote:
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Cisco ASR 9000, Juniper MX, Huawei NE40E, Alcatel-Lucent 7750, those kinds of routers are the ones I hear people using. Some go for the new Sup2T for the 6500, but I don't know how much more CPU it has compared to your SUP/RSP720, perhaps someone else knows? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
Hi Mikael,
Some go for the new Sup2T for the 6500, but I don't know how much more CPU it has compared to your SUP/RSP720, perhaps someone else knows?
The Sup2T I worked on has: CPU: MPC8572_E, Version: 2.2, (0x80E80022) CORE: E500, Version: 3.0, (0x80210030) CPU:1500MHz, CCB:600MHz, DDR:600MHz Compared to a Sup720: SR71000 CPU at 600Mhz, Implementation 0x504, Rev 1.2, 512KB L2 Cache Needless to say, working on the Sup2T is wonderful compared to the Sup720 :-) Cheers, Sander
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>wrote:
[snip]
+1 for MX or ASR 9000.
Cisco ASR 9000, Juniper MX, Huawei NE40E, Alcatel-Lucent 7750, those kinds of routers are the ones I hear people using. Some go for the new Sup2T for the 6500, but I don't know how much more CPU it has compared to your SUP/RSP720, perhaps someone else knows?
Cat6500 Sup720 was a platform that used two separate processors; 1 Switch Processor CPU at 600mhz managing Layer 2 services, and 1 Route processor CPU at 600MHz on the MSFC to run the Layer 3 services. these were MIPS CPUs --- sr71000. Cat650 Sup2T is shown as a single Dual core, 1.5GHz per Core cpu. There is one processor stack on the 2T, instead of two separate CPUs; since route processor and switch processor are now combined into one shared processing unit under the new "merged" architecture that runs only one IOS image, that controls both RP and SP features ---- Layer 2, Layer 3, and management services do not run on separate processors, with their own separate hw anymore. So the CPU is beefier --- but it is also now shared by multiple functions that previously had separate, isolated processing from one another. I believe the Sup2T are using a E500 PowerPC chip. In any event, neither old nor new are based on x86 architecture --- keep in mind, that comparison of MHz or GHz CPU frequency rates is only meaningful within the same CPU architecture. There are not significant increases in FIB TCAM, or other important memory capacities from RSP720, that you would expect to need for scalability to larger tables. Even with 2T I would still describe the 65xx as largely a great switching platform, for 10/100/1000 aggregation -- due to limited chassis bandwidth: its days would seem to be numbered once desktops are sporting 10 gigabit links: definitely not (IMO) the best hardware router platform for carrying large routing tables at the ISP edge, anyways.
Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
-- -JH
Same here using MX routers and Brocade +1 for MX due to the "unix" shell =) Med vänlig hälsning Andreas Larsen IP-Only Telecommunication AB| Postadress: 753 81 UPPSALA | Besöksadress: S:t Persgatan 6, Uppsala | Telefon: +46 (0)18 843 10 00 | Direkt: +46 (0)18 843 10 56 www.ip-only.se -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: Jimmy Hess [mailto:mysidia@gmail.com] Skickat: den 10 december 2013 04:35 Till: Mikael Abrahamsson Kopia: NANOG list; Jawaid Desktop Ämne: Re: What routers do folks use these days? On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>wrote:
[snip]
+1 for MX or ASR 9000.
Cisco ASR 9000, Juniper MX, Huawei NE40E, Alcatel-Lucent 7750, those kinds of routers are the ones I hear people using. Some go for the new Sup2T for the 6500, but I don't know how much more CPU it has compared to your SUP/RSP720, perhaps someone else knows?
Cat6500 Sup720 was a platform that used two separate processors; 1 Switch Processor CPU at 600mhz managing Layer 2 services, and 1 Route processor CPU at 600MHz on the MSFC to run the Layer 3 services. these were MIPS CPUs --- sr71000. Cat650 Sup2T is shown as a single Dual core, 1.5GHz per Core cpu. There is one processor stack on the 2T, instead of two separate CPUs; since route processor and switch processor are now combined into one shared processing unit under the new "merged" architecture that runs only one IOS image, that controls both RP and SP features ---- Layer 2, Layer 3, and management services do not run on separate processors, with their own separate hw anymore. So the CPU is beefier --- but it is also now shared by multiple functions that previously had separate, isolated processing from one another. I believe the Sup2T are using a E500 PowerPC chip. In any event, neither old nor new are based on x86 architecture --- keep in mind, that comparison of MHz or GHz CPU frequency rates is only meaningful within the same CPU architecture. There are not significant increases in FIB TCAM, or other important memory capacities from RSP720, that you would expect to need for scalability to larger tables. Even with 2T I would still describe the 65xx as largely a great switching platform, for 10/100/1000 aggregation -- due to limited chassis bandwidth: its days would seem to be numbered once desktops are sporting 10 gigabit links: definitely not (IMO) the best hardware router platform for carrying large routing tables at the ISP edge, anyways.
Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
-- -JH
Even with a single chip architecture the overall scale performance is WAY better than Sup720. Hell, even RSP720 was a huge improvement in scale I know the question was specifically about CPU but Sup2T is also a different forwarding ASIC allowing it to do natively things Sup720 couldn't, like VPLS and EVC I would agree that Sup2t wouldn't be my first choice in ISP Edge. From Cisco, ASR9k or ASR1k depending on bandwidth needs. -Pete disclaimer: I work for Cisco. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Jimmy Hess <mysidia@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se
wrote:
[snip]
+1 for MX or ASR 9000.
Cisco ASR 9000, Juniper MX, Huawei NE40E, Alcatel-Lucent 7750, those kinds of routers are the ones I hear people using. Some go for the new Sup2T for the 6500, but I don't know how much more CPU it has compared to your SUP/RSP720, perhaps someone else knows?
Cat6500 Sup720 was a platform that used two separate processors; 1 Switch Processor CPU at 600mhz managing Layer 2 services, and 1 Route processor CPU at 600MHz on the MSFC to run the Layer 3 services. these were MIPS CPUs --- sr71000.
Cat650 Sup2T is shown as a single Dual core, 1.5GHz per Core cpu. There is one processor stack on the 2T, instead of two separate CPUs; since route processor and switch processor are now combined into one shared processing unit under the new "merged" architecture that runs only one IOS image, that controls both RP and SP features ---- Layer 2, Layer 3, and management services do not run on separate processors, with their own separate hw anymore.
So the CPU is beefier --- but it is also now shared by multiple functions that previously had separate, isolated processing from one another.
I believe the Sup2T are using a E500 PowerPC chip. In any event, neither old nor new are based on x86 architecture --- keep in mind, that comparison of MHz or GHz CPU frequency rates is only meaningful within the same CPU architecture.
There are not significant increases in FIB TCAM, or other important memory capacities from RSP720, that you would expect to need for scalability to larger tables.
Even with 2T I would still describe the 65xx as largely a great switching platform, for 10/100/1000 aggregation -- due to limited chassis bandwidth: its days would seem to be numbered once desktops are sporting 10 gigabit links: definitely not (IMO) the best hardware router platform for carrying large routing tables at the ISP edge, anyways.
Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
-- -JH
On Nov 29, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Jawaid Desktop <jb@forethought.net> wrote:
Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Make sure you get something that, unlike the pre-Sup2T 6500/7600, has operationally useful NetFlow, ACLs, and uRPF. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net> // <http://www.arbornetworks.com> Luck is the residue of opportunity and design. -- John Milton
Am 29.11.2013 06:37, schrieb Jawaid Desktop:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Check the Brocade MLXe series. We (Init7 / AS13030) are using them and the previous XMR series for years and are happy with it. CLI is Cisco-look-and-feel, the software tree has a clear structure (unlike Cisco with hundreds of versions) and the TAC is willing to ssh into your gear to assist. -- Fredy Kuenzler Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. AS13030 St. Georgen-Strasse 70 CH-8400 Winterthur Twitter: @init7 / @kuenzler http://www.init7.net/
We are using Juniper MX and Brocade XMRs for our P and PE routers. Thanks Darren http://www.mellowd.co.uk/ccie
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:19:33 +0100 From: kuenzler@init7.net To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: What routers do folks use these days?
Am 29.11.2013 06:37, schrieb Jawaid Desktop:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Check the Brocade MLXe series. We (Init7 / AS13030) are using them and the previous XMR series for years and are happy with it. CLI is Cisco-look-and-feel, the software tree has a clear structure (unlike Cisco with hundreds of versions) and the TAC is willing to ssh into your gear to assist.
-- Fredy Kuenzler
Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. AS13030 St. Georgen-Strasse 70 CH-8400 Winterthur Twitter: @init7 / @kuenzler http://www.init7.net/
Juniper throughout on our side now … former Cisco shop. Overall, quite happy …. MX,M,E,EX,SRX etc… Paul On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Darren O'Connor <darrenoc@outlook.com> wrote:
We are using Juniper MX and Brocade XMRs for our P and PE routers.
Thanks Darren http://www.mellowd.co.uk/ccie
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:19:33 +0100 From: kuenzler@init7.net To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: What routers do folks use these days?
Am 29.11.2013 06:37, schrieb Jawaid Desktop:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Check the Brocade MLXe series. We (Init7 / AS13030) are using them and the previous XMR series for years and are happy with it. CLI is Cisco-look-and-feel, the software tree has a clear structure (unlike Cisco with hundreds of versions) and the TAC is willing to ssh into your gear to assist.
-- Fredy Kuenzler
Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. AS13030 St. Georgen-Strasse 70 CH-8400 Winterthur Twitter: @init7 / @kuenzler http://www.init7.net/
+1 for Brocade MLXe. Good Price. Good stuff. Good TAC. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Fredy Kuenzler <kuenzler@init7.net> wrote:
Am 29.11.2013 06:37, schrieb Jawaid Desktop:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Check the Brocade MLXe series. We (Init7 / AS13030) are using them and the previous XMR series for years and are happy with it. CLI is Cisco-look-and-feel, the software tree has a clear structure (unlike Cisco with hundreds of versions) and the TAC is willing to ssh into your gear to assist.
-- Fredy Kuenzler
Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. AS13030 St. Georgen-Strasse 70 CH-8400 Winterthur Twitter: @init7 / @kuenzler http://www.init7.net/
+1 for Brocade MLXe. Used on our edge and *knock on wood* have not had any issues with it ever. Full BGP routing table, multiple VRFs, QoS / bandwidth management. We also have a few Brocade CER series routers, which are awesome as well for metro edge. And for political reasons a bunch of Cisco Nexus/Cat4500 gear in the core... -P -----Original Message----- From: Elliot Finley [mailto:efinley.lists@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 2:29 PM Cc: nanog list Subject: Re: What routers do folks use these days? +1 for Brocade MLXe. Good Price. Good stuff. Good TAC. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Fredy Kuenzler <kuenzler@init7.net> wrote:
Am 29.11.2013 06:37, schrieb Jawaid Desktop:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Check the Brocade MLXe series. We (Init7 / AS13030) are using them and the previous XMR series for years and are happy with it. CLI is Cisco-look-and-feel, the software tree has a clear structure (unlike Cisco with hundreds of versions) and the TAC is willing to ssh into your gear to assist.
-- Fredy Kuenzler
Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. AS13030 St. Georgen-Strasse 70 CH-8400 Winterthur Twitter: @init7 / @kuenzler http://www.init7.net/
+2 for Brocade MLXe we use them globally now for almost 3 years and are very happy with them !! Brocade Rocks !! period !! Kindest Regards James Braunegg P: 1300 769 972 | M: 0488 997 207 | D: (03) 9751 7616 E: james.braunegg@micron21.com | ABN: 12 109 977 666 W: www.micron21.com/ip-transit T: @micron21 This message is intended for the addressee named above. It may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose it to anyone other than the addressee. If you have received this message in error please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. -----Original Message----- From: Elliot Finley [mailto:efinley.lists@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:29 AM Cc: nanog list Subject: Re: What routers do folks use these days? +1 for Brocade MLXe. Good Price. Good stuff. Good TAC. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Fredy Kuenzler <kuenzler@init7.net> wrote:
Am 29.11.2013 06:37, schrieb Jawaid Desktop:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Check the Brocade MLXe series. We (Init7 / AS13030) are using them and the previous XMR series for years and are happy with it. CLI is Cisco-look-and-feel, the software tree has a clear structure (unlike Cisco with hundreds of versions) and the TAC is willing to ssh into your gear to assist.
-- Fredy Kuenzler
Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. AS13030 St. Georgen-Strasse 70 CH-8400 Winterthur Twitter: @init7 / @kuenzler http://www.init7.net/
Brocade MLXe with the XMR cards is a good choice, yes, but -1 for "What do you mean that this feature isn't fully implemented yet?? It's been in common use among other vendors for better than 10 years!" They're a lot better than they were but still a bit lagging. -Wayne On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:15:10AM +0000, James Braunegg wrote:
+2 for Brocade MLXe we use them globally now for almost 3 years and are very happy with them !!
Brocade Rocks !! period !!
Kindest Regards
James Braunegg P:? 1300 769 972? |? M:? 0488 997 207 |? D:? (03) 9751 7616 E:?? james.braunegg@micron21.com? |? ABN:? 12 109 977 666?? W:??www.micron21.com/ip-transit T:?@micron21
This message is intended for the addressee named above. It may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose it to anyone other than the addressee. If you have received this message in error please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer.
-----Original Message----- From: Elliot Finley [mailto:efinley.lists@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:29 AM Cc: nanog list Subject: Re: What routers do folks use these days?
+1 for Brocade MLXe. Good Price. Good stuff. Good TAC.
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Fredy Kuenzler <kuenzler@init7.net> wrote:
Am 29.11.2013 06:37, schrieb Jawaid Desktop:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Check the Brocade MLXe series. We (Init7 / AS13030) are using them and the previous XMR series for years and are happy with it. CLI is Cisco-look-and-feel, the software tree has a clear structure (unlike Cisco with hundreds of versions) and the TAC is willing to ssh into your gear to assist.
-- Fredy Kuenzler
Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. AS13030 St. Georgen-Strasse 70 CH-8400 Winterthur Twitter: @init7 / @kuenzler http://www.init7.net/
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
On 11/28/2013 11:37 PM, Jawaid Desktop wrote:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Jawaid
If you are looking to stay with Cisco, and depending on features you want, you'll be interested in the ASR1ks and ASR9ks. tv
We use Juniper, Cisco, and ALU in different roles. All of them have their quirks and bugs but none have been a big enough issue to seriously look at moving away from them. We use the MX, PTX, EX, SRX on the Junipers and mainly 7600/ASR9K/Nexus for Cisco and 7750 for ALU. What are you doing on your network today with regards to routing protocols and services? Chances are the 9K/MX/7750 could work in your network fine. The 7750 doesn't easily support the notion of a SVI if you make extensive use of those. The 9K didn't at FCS but does now. The OS is completely different for all three so there is some learning curve. The MX and 9K both have new generations that just came out with the MX2010/2020 and ASR99xx boxes, but for your needs the older chassis would work fine. Phil On Nov 29, 2013 12:38 AM, "Jawaid Desktop" <jb@forethought.net> wrote:
We're a service provider, and we have a network full of Cat6509's. We are finding that we are outgrowing them from the standpoint of their ability to handle lots of large routing tables. Obviously their switching capability is still superb but one of them with 20 peers is starting to groan a bit and RAM is going to be an issue soon.
What do people use these days? Our backbone needs in the next 2-3 years are going to be sub-100Gbps.
Jawaid
participants (19)
-
Alex White-Robinson -
Andreas Larsen -
Darren O'Connor -
Dobbins, Roland -
Elliot Finley -
Fredy Kuenzler -
James Braunegg -
Jawaid Desktop -
Jimmy Hess -
Mehmet Akcin -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Paul Stewart -
Paul WALL -
Pete Lumbis -
Petter Bruland -
Phil Bedard -
Sander Steffann -
Tony Varriale -
Wayne E Bouchard