Any ISPs using AS852 for IP Transit?
If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I’d be interested in hearing from you. I’d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we’re the only ones… Thanks in advance!
I feel this can be a public topic: Rogers just charged us that for an update (one update, multiple entries). We had to go through their quotation machinery too, took like 4-5 days. Additional time was wasted because we contacted their tech dept directly at the start. (which is what I do for all my other upstreams...) Kinda brutal. Cogent and HE nor NAC or Yipes or Tata ever did that to us. Nickle and diming -- why, cuz transit is a cheap commodity now, gotta make the cash somewhere? That said Cogent offered us a static /26 along side our BGP years ago then warned us it'd be $50/mo or something for that # of ips going forward. We didnt need it so dispensed with it. /kc On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:07:01PM -0400, Jason Lixfeld said:
If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I???d be interested in hearing from you.
I???d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we???re the only ones???
Thanks in advance!
-- Ken Chase - math@sizone.org Toronto Canada
On 9/15/16 11:28 AM, Ken Chase wrote:
I feel this can be a public topic:
Rogers just charged us that for an update (one update, multiple entries). We had to go through their quotation machinery too, took like 4-5 days. Additional time was wasted because we contacted their tech dept directly at the start. (which is what I do for all my other upstreams...)
Kinda brutal. Coordination problems are a point of high friction and cost for low margin products. I generally prefer that my providers be able to generate prefix filters on the basis of route objects, If it's not part of their service offering; how costs are assigned for service requests is going to be part of contract negotiions.
joel
Cogent and HE nor NAC or Yipes or Tata ever did that to us.
Nickle and diming -- why, cuz transit is a cheap commodity now, gotta make the cash somewhere?
That said Cogent offered us a static /26 along side our BGP years ago then warned us it'd be $50/mo or something for that # of ips going forward. We didnt need it so dispensed with it.
/kc
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:07:01PM -0400, Jason Lixfeld said:
If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I???d be interested in hearing from you.
I???d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we???re the only ones???
Thanks in advance!
Followup: we did the quote/PO/sign-the-order dance. That took about 3-4 days not including our side's lag (which was not insignificant, Im not the guy with the pen). But now it's gone to provisioning and will be a standard *5 days*. Cogent will do this in about 1-6 hours if you provide the LOA's with the request. So will HE. And many others. /kc On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:28:50PM -0400, Ken Chase said:
I feel this can be a public topic:
Rogers just charged us that for an update (one update, multiple entries). We had to go through their quotation machinery too, took like 4-5 days. Additional time was wasted because we contacted their tech dept directly at the start. (which is what I do for all my other upstreams...)
Kinda brutal.
Cogent and HE nor NAC or Yipes or Tata ever did that to us.
Nickle and diming -- why, cuz transit is a cheap commodity now, gotta make the cash somewhere?
That said Cogent offered us a static /26 along side our BGP years ago then warned us it'd be $50/mo or something for that # of ips going forward. We didnt need it so dispensed with it.
/kc
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:07:01PM -0400, Jason Lixfeld said:
If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I???d be interested in hearing from you.
I???d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we???re the only ones???
Thanks in advance!
-- Ken Chase - math@sizone.org Toronto Canada
I've used HE's tunnelbroker (BGP) a few times to get our ARIN space to a site while waiting on a local carrier to turn up v6, get the proper LOA, etc. I've received better service from the NOC there for a service I didn't pay for than I have from any ISP I've ever given money. They are doing a great job over there. A LOA change (/48-->/40 le 48) took about an hour. Spencer Ryan | Senior Systems Administrator | sryan@arbor.net<mailto:sryan@arbor.net> Arbor Networks +1.734.794.5033 (d) | +1.734.846.2053 (m) www.arbornetworks.com<http://www.arbornetworks.com/> ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ken Chase <math@sizone.org> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 10:51:51 AM To: Jason Lixfeld Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: charges for prefix filter updates (was Re: Any ISPs using AS852 for IP Transit?) Followup: we did the quote/PO/sign-the-order dance. That took about 3-4 days not including our side's lag (which was not insignificant, Im not the guy with the pen). But now it's gone to provisioning and will be a standard *5 days*. Cogent will do this in about 1-6 hours if you provide the LOA's with the request. So will HE. And many others. /kc On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:28:50PM -0400, Ken Chase said:
I feel this can be a public topic:
Rogers just charged us that for an update (one update, multiple entries). We had to go through their quotation machinery too, took like 4-5 days. Additional time was wasted because we contacted their tech dept directly at the start. (which is what I do for all my other upstreams...)
Kinda brutal.
Cogent and HE nor NAC or Yipes or Tata ever did that to us.
Nickle and diming -- why, cuz transit is a cheap commodity now, gotta make the cash somewhere?
That said Cogent offered us a static /26 along side our BGP years ago then warned us it'd be $50/mo or something for that # of ips going forward. We didnt need it so dispensed with it.
/kc
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:07:01PM -0400, Jason Lixfeld said:
If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I???d be interested in hearing from you.
I???d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we???re the only ones???
Thanks in advance!
-- Ken Chase - math@sizone.org Toronto Canada
I question their motivation here and would follow up by asking if they support filtering by IRRdb and are merely trying to encourage the practice? /Steve On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote:
If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I’d be interested in hearing from you.
I’d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we’re the only ones…
Thanks in advance!
-- Steven J. Schecter (m) 917.676.1646
Last time I asked, that wasn’t something that they had implemented, and had no definite plans to do so within any timeframe that was on their radar.
On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Steven Schecter <schecter@gmail.com> wrote:
I question their motivation here and would follow up by asking if they support filtering by IRRdb and are merely trying to encourage the practice?
/Steve
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote: If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I’d be interested in hearing from you.
I’d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we’re the only ones…
Thanks in advance!
-- Steven J. Schecter (m) 917.676.1646
So, to be blunt, I would cast this as their charging you NRC for manual work because of their failure to automate this. -- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal On Thu 2016-Sep-15 15:09:33 -0400, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote:
Last time I asked, that wasn’t something that they had implemented, and had no definite plans to do so within any timeframe that was on their radar.
On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Steven Schecter <schecter@gmail.com> wrote:
I question their motivation here and would follow up by asking if they support filtering by IRRdb and are merely trying to encourage the practice?
/Steve
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote: If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I’d be interested in hearing from you.
I’d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we’re the only ones…
Thanks in advance!
-- Steven J. Schecter (m) 917.676.1646
Sure. My question was whether every TELUS BGP customer was being charged for these too, or if I’m the only one. If I’m the only one, then I’m obviously caught in some administrative black hole there that I would like to get myself out of. This is something that has only started happening in the last 6 months or so. Prior to that, we were never charged by them for these requests. Unfortunately, my sales rep has been less than helpful in trying to understand what changed to make us susceptible to these new charges.
On Sep 15, 2016, at 3:15 PM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com> wrote:
So, to be blunt, I would cast this as their charging you NRC for manual work because of their failure to automate this.
-- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal
On Thu 2016-Sep-15 15:09:33 -0400, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote:
Last time I asked, that wasn’t something that they had implemented, and had no definite plans to do so within any timeframe that was on their radar.
On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Steven Schecter <schecter@gmail.com> wrote:
I question their motivation here and would follow up by asking if they support filtering by IRRdb and are merely trying to encourage the practice?
/Steve
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote: If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I’d be interested in hearing from you.
I’d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we’re the only ones…
Thanks in advance!
-- Steven J. Schecter (m) 917.676.1646
I don't think this is standard across the board with Telus. I've also heard (rumours?) of a similar $250 prefix change free associated with Shaw/AS6327 changes before, and also a much larger $750 change prefix change fee with BELL-GT/AS6539, but the customers I know who use them definitely don't get charged these types of fees. Theodore Baschak - AS395089 - Hextet Systems https://ciscodude.net/ - https://hextet.systems/ http://mbix.ca/
On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:21 PM, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote:
Sure. My question was whether every TELUS BGP customer was being charged for these too, or if I’m the only one. If I’m the only one, then I’m obviously caught in some administrative black hole there that I would like to get myself out of. This is something that has only started happening in the last 6 months or so. Prior to that, we were never charged by them for these requests. Unfortunately, my sales rep has been less than helpful in trying to understand what changed to make us susceptible to these new charges.
On Sep 15, 2016, at 3:15 PM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com> wrote:
So, to be blunt, I would cast this as their charging you NRC for manual work because of their failure to automate this.
-- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal
On Thu 2016-Sep-15 15:09:33 -0400, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote:
Last time I asked, that wasn’t something that they had implemented, and had no definite plans to do so within any timeframe that was on their radar.
On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Steven Schecter <schecter@gmail.com> wrote:
I question their motivation here and would follow up by asking if they support filtering by IRRdb and are merely trying to encourage the practice?
/Steve
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote: If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I’d be interested in hearing from you.
I’d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we’re the only ones…
Thanks in advance!
-- Steven J. Schecter (m) 917.676.1646
To confirm AS852 and AS577 don’t charge $dayjob for prefix changes …. they both do them manually though which is a pain :(
On Sep 15, 2016, at 4:09 PM, Theodore Baschak <theodore@ciscodude.net> wrote:
I don't think this is standard across the board with Telus.
I've also heard (rumours?) of a similar $250 prefix change free associated with Shaw/AS6327 changes before, and also a much larger $750 change prefix change fee with BELL-GT/AS6539, but the customers I know who use them definitely don't get charged these types of fees.
Theodore Baschak - AS395089 - Hextet Systems https://ciscodude.net/ - https://hextet.systems/ http://mbix.ca/
On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:21 PM, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote:
Sure. My question was whether every TELUS BGP customer was being charged for these too, or if I’m the only one. If I’m the only one, then I’m obviously caught in some administrative black hole there that I would like to get myself out of. This is something that has only started happening in the last 6 months or so. Prior to that, we were never charged by them for these requests. Unfortunately, my sales rep has been less than helpful in trying to understand what changed to make us susceptible to these new charges.
On Sep 15, 2016, at 3:15 PM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com> wrote:
So, to be blunt, I would cast this as their charging you NRC for manual work because of their failure to automate this.
-- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal
On Thu 2016-Sep-15 15:09:33 -0400, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote:
Last time I asked, that wasn’t something that they had implemented, and had no definite plans to do so within any timeframe that was on their radar.
On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Steven Schecter <schecter@gmail.com> wrote:
I question their motivation here and would follow up by asking if they support filtering by IRRdb and are merely trying to encourage the practice?
/Steve
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jason Lixfeld <jason+nanog@lixfeld.ca> wrote: If there are any ISPs who use TELUS/AS852 for IP Transit over BGP, I’d be interested in hearing from you.
I’d like to compare notes to see if you are also paying $250 for each BGP prefix filter updated request, or if we’re the only ones…
Thanks in advance!
-- Steven J. Schecter (m) 917.676.1646
participants (8)
-
Hugo Slabbert -
Jason Lixfeld -
joel jaeggli -
Ken Chase -
Paul Stewart -
Ryan, Spencer -
Steven Schecter -
Theodore Baschak